Getting back into honours in 3rd year

[english]

Hi,

I fell short of the required marks to gain entry into honours english due to getting a zero on an essay which was worth 25% of my module score. This happened as I was caught out for academic fraud. I subsequently decided to avoid doing a deferred assessment (EN2004) as I knew that gaining an 11+ in the module where I had got zero for the essay was virtually impossible (would have required a 19 or so in the exam.)

My scores in the English modules over the first two years therefore stand at:

EN1003 - 6.5
EN1004 - 7.3
EN2003 - 5.8
EN2004 - 9

I DESPERATELY want to regain entry into honours English. Does anyone have any experience of being in a similar situation within the English dept.? I have constantly heard from friends in higher years that if you display evidence of high academic attainment you can be reinstated but this may just be one of the many rumours within the student body.

Any advice or anecdotes would be greatly appreciated!

[munchingfoo]

With those grades, and a case of academic fraud I doubt they will let you in. I certainly wouldn't.

They do have room to judge candidates on other criteria, for example increasing grades, but I shouldn't imagine you fall into that category.

Sorry to be harsh - but I have little time for those who break the academic fraud rules (especially when the quality of their work is sub-par otherwise). What would you be doing if you hadn't got caught and gained entry? Did you cheat in any of those other courses for which you have low grades? I certainly hope not.

Ask yourself this - do you think you have the ability to complete honours, given the evidence?

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[Midget]

I think most people in your position end up doing a general, eg my ex-flatmate AMH.

You sound awfully candid, indulge us, what were the details of the academic fraud, or are you being so open because it wasn't really fraud. Please details, then we might help more.

[hr]

IMAGE:img9.imgspot.com/u/04/241/18/160019.jpg new shite
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100090

[Midget]

Also your first year English module results are shite, I did English to fill in credits one time, I handed in essays late (which they are ridiculously harsh on), I skimmed books sometimes, and I still managed 2.1s, English first year is piss, those results mark you out as some sort of serious retard, I laugh at the idea of you in honours, sorry thats harsh I've seen worse results than those complete degrees, but by adding academic fraud to the equation you've rather fucked any sympathy anyone might have for you.

[hr]

IMAGE:img9.imgspot.com/u/04/241/18/160019.jpg new shite
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100090

[rojabuck]

Well,
I have to be honest squire, do you feel that;

"I have constantly heard from friends in higher years that if you display evidence of high academic attainment you can be reinstated but this may just be one of the many rumours within the student body."

is applicable? It's been some time since i left sta but, unless they have changed from a maximum of 20 to a maximum of umm... 9 since my leaving i would think every single one of those marks falls in 2:2/3rd/fail??

Why do you want to stay? Remember there are jobs out there where academia doesn't serve as well as experience? Maybe you are more suited to such a vocation (plumbing, plastering, divinity)?

[hr]

http://www.rojabuck.com

[english]

The reason the marks were so low is due to the fact I did next to no work. I realise that this does not reflect well on me as a student, and I'm not in denial that I deserve everything that's happened to me.

However, I do want to complete an honours degree at the university, and don't think it's just to exclude someone from doing so on the basis of sub-honours marks IF AND ONLY IF I were able to display my ability in English in the forthcoming year. I have the utmost confidence in my ability - the poor results are reflective of apathy and disillusionment as opposed to lack of intelligence. I know what is required of me and I know I could achieve it (I achieved one of the top 5 marks in England for both GCSE and A level English).

I'm not saying what I've done so far is excusable, far from it, however there has been a marked change in my attitude, and if my results reflect this in my third year I think it would be mutually beneficial for myself and the university that I be allowed to complete the course as intended.

Judgement and cynicism aside, do I have a plausible chance?!

[DrAlex]

I have no idea if you realistically stand a chance, but if I were you, I would talk to whoever would listen and beg to retake second year.

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[Thalia]

To be honest, i don't think you do have a chance. The university won't take into account a promise of future dedication when your marks appear to indicate that you aren't dedicated. They make it very clear that there's a goal to achieve to get into honours and you didn't reach it - letting you in would be unfair to those who did put in the effort to get 11s and would set a precedent where you don't need the 11s to get into honours if you can promise you'll be good in third year, thus lowering their reputation as a top university.

[hr]

You've been nothing but an angel every day of your life and now you wonder what it's like to be damned...

[rob 'f*ck off' wine boy]

Cheating is bad, mmkay?

[rojabuck]

Your marks from GCSE and to a large extent a-level have little relevance to your competency to take on an honours course. The university has rules there for a reason, to protect the students it serves to educate. It is entirely "Just" to have requirements for entry if, from the outset, those requirements are known by all. You wouldn't for insance say that it was un-just that you need an ABB to get into STA and a BBC to get into some other university? In fact it would be unfair not to have requirements as it allows for a differing path for those within the institution which are struggling with the standard format of the university.

I would suspect that there is little chance of you getting accepted to honors with a consistent showing of poor attainment. You can always "blag" and if you really, really want something then who knows? Maybe someone with enough power will champion your case. However failing that i would approach your head of department or sub-honors supervisor and query the opportunity to re-sit 2nd year and prove your capabilities.

Remember these systems are not personal, they have not singled you out and have not made it any more/less difficult for you than anyone else. The reason a degree from STA is as revered is due to it's ability to show not just intelligence but the varied and wide range of tasks required to complete a 4 year training program.

[hr]

http://www.rojabuck.com

[Okocim]

I'm struck by the fact that you ascribe your poor marks to "apathy and disillusionment". If so, it suggests that a St Andrews university course is not the right thing for you at this time. Honours courses are much more hard going than sub-honours so what's the point in breaking your back to get in there if you're going to hate it so much?

My recommendation would be to spend some time out thinking exactly what it was that prevented you from achieving your potential these past two years. Was it the subject? The university? Personal issues? Immaturity? Go into the world, travel, get a job, grow up a bit and try to work these things out. Once you've done that and got some real life achievements to your name you may have a much better idea of what you want from a degree. Then you can apply again to universities with a much greater level or purpose and maturity.

As a society we expect people to enter higher education aged 17/18 and come out of it ready for the world of work. But that's not the best route for everybody. For example, my own brother and sister were unsuited to higher education at the time they left school, but later went back to it and both have done exceptionally well (one now has a phd, the other is studying for it). You might be a similar case.

Whatever happens, you've got to make some serious choice about where you go from here in life - think about them very hard. I wish you luck.

[Malcolm]

Quoting english from 01:24, 6th Sep 2007
This happened as I was caught out for academic fraud.

I'm afraid it looks like lights out on your Honours career. Academic fraud is unacceptable in any circumstances as others have rightly said.

I've just transferred away from St Andrews, by the way.

[Raindog]

Get those fishnets on brother and get down the the docks

[Mehmsy]

Sorry, but I doubt you stand a chance; and to be candid, you deserve to be kicked out.

[hr]

http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37106593

[Malcolm]

Quoting rojabuck from 12:18, 11th Sep 2007
query the opportunity to re-sit 2nd year and prove your capabilities.

Like I've said, I'm no longer at St Andrews but I seem to remember not being able to resit any modules you have already passed in order to improve your grade.

So resitting second year would only be possible if english had actually failed outright. Even then, it would have involved a lot of begging and strings being pulled to even be allowed to resit in the first place.

[Thalia]

Yeah, that's true - once you pass a module you can't sit it again, even if you only barely passed

[hr]

You've been nothing but an angel every day of your life and now you wonder what it's like to be damned...

[Freaker]

I'm not sure whether I understand this correctly, but you got no points on the essay in one course, yet were two points or more below honours level in both courses?

In that case, I doubt there is a chance. It seems like you have had your chance to show what you can do - University is there to learn for a degree, after all, and the goal should be to learn as much as possible for the degree one is doing, rather than just scraping along to get one in the end. Departments want to see students be passionate about the subjects they are taking. I would think the department would reconsider letting you into honours if you had showed some real passion for the subject - but such low grades don't really seem to stand for that. Maybe the best thing is just to take a break to see what you really want - and then to work for that. And work towards it by honest means that time.

One thing you should still do, though, is try to talk to Student Support Services. If there is anyone outside the department who will be able to assess you chances, it's them. Give them a call, the number can be found online.

[hr]

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.

[TheUnixKid]

Moral of the story, don't FUCKING CHEAT. No sympathy whatsoever.

[David Bean]

Yes, Student Support would be the people to speak to. If it would be at all possible, I'm pretty sure it would involve re-taking your second year, but I don't think you'll find many people here who will be qualified to comment on your chances of being permitted to do that under your particular circumstances.

Unlike some of our previous correspondants I actually do have considerable sympathy for your predicament, because having results like yours can be a handicap even after you've completed your degree when you come to apply for a job, since many employers will ask about previous results and enquire as to why you took longer than usual to complete your degree. It may ultimately be preferable for you to do as Okocim says, take some time out to work for a while and then come back to a different course at a different university. That way, the story you'll have to tell an employer is radically different: you entered HE, found it wasn't right for you at that time, took some time away to work and develop your skills in a different arena then came back again and esucceeded. That is far more likely to provoke sympathy and understanding - perhaps even admiration - than the story you would have to tell them at the moment, even if you did manage to be allowed to carry on. But then, you may have reasons of your own for wanting to stay in St Andrews now, in which case Student Support (or a degree in some other subject, depending on your results there) would seem to be your only option.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[TheUnixKid]

so basically lie then? Good advice, do you side line as a lawyer by any chance Mr Bean? Or just a shitty comedy act?