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Welcome to the Union message board. Here's your opportunity to tell us what you think of what we're doing on your behalf. Enjoy! - Oli Walker, Head of Media, Marketing and Design, http://www.YourUnion.netPlease post any requests for advice (about anything) on The Sinner's ADVICE board. Ta!

Re:

Postby The chap on Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:16 pm

"Your continuous mention or hinting towards your age difference as some sort of hallmark of the validity and strength of your viewpoints is remarkably immature; right up there with the "my Dad's bigger than your Dad," school of arguement.
Still, since we're being childish, here's some silliness I just rustled up....

G geriatric
R rambling
A arsehole
M making
P pathetic
A arguements

[/quote]

Firstly, having seen how 'immature' I can be and stooping to my level, you are quite as bad, if not worse than I for having done so.

-Thank you for your honesty regarding your immaturity. It's all part of growing up and I think may be good for your development. (Your welcome, by the way- only to glad to help).

If I were immature, in comparison to you, you would never have dared that little humourous stunt.

-I do not claim maturity, claiming maturity, as I've mentioned before, is your thing. Indeed it is the cornerstone of the arguements and retorts you adorn the boards with.
The "humerous stunt" that I "dared" (modest of you to suggest that one needs courage to poke fun at you!!!- Good God, man! You're head is really quite far up your backside. Bless!) was an example of what is called irony, apparently all the kids are into these days, probably a bit too modern for the likes of you.

Having said that, yes, I shall not, on this occassion stoop to what has now been claimed your level of operation - by none other than yourself.

-Again, I don't claim to be mature, I was merely pointing to the inadequacy of you basing your arguements on your age and the good four years or so you have over some of the "pesky kids" who try to passify you through rational and co-herent argument.

Better luck next time - but there probably won't be one.

-Quite.

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s][/quote]
The chap
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:04 pm

Re:

Postby Laura on Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:33 pm

[b]Quoting Grandpa from 18:39, 4th Dec 2005[/
No, I said ask them what the issues are, not ask them about every single issue. That would do away with the SRC, I'm talking about a plan that makes the SRC so much more legit than having a bunch of people around a table who have no idea what the students think.


Being students themselves who have stood for the various positions because of a desire to be representative of that group, yes I would say they do have some idea of what students think. Also, the 'issues' are not 100% the way you are defining them. The 'issues' affecting students that the SRC sets about discussing and attemting to do something about are not just those that students e-mail the reps with (and yes it does happen) they are issues that we may have an inside on, or have become educated about that are not simply a problem a student is having (the library has no books) they are problems that unbeknown to a lot of students, will affect them (the university's desire to have the recor relinquish the chair of court). Quite often, although if you take it literally and don't address what I've said in context it may sound ridiculous, the SRC may become aware of the 'issues' before the students do. They are the kind of 'issues' that all the student's smaller issues are symptomatic of.

Now, let me ask you this...how many student non-representatives approached the SRC last year?

How many of those few requests actually had any progress?


Having not sat on there for awfully long yet myself, I can't give you precise figures. In my position on the SSC, I can tell you I have been contacted on many occasions by students and have sought to meet their requirements. Knowing the DoR quite well, I know he is inundated by requests for help etc from students, and these are addressed. But I would say two things about why several people may go uncontacted-

1) The website is a pile of crap as regards putting up to date photos and contact details up.

2) The Association notice board with photos and contacts never happened.

3) The constitution has failed to appear on the website, so people don't clearly understand which committee does what, who to contact and how the place works.

All of these issues fall under the remit of the Association President, in his communications capacity. SRC have been on his back about the issue, and it is constantly brought up. But nothing happens. I would quite like to see him inundated with e-mails from students asking for the contact details of the reps- but then again, that might be pointless as he doesn't seem to know how to click on reply.

But then again you are happy with a system that largely ignores students full stop, oh, apart from at election time.


I'm not happy with it at all- it's you, who when on the SRC, was happy with it and fought to keep it. Having read the proposals for change and the survey results that the then SRC were asked to answer, I have to say that I think the proposed policy model would be preferable to what we have now, as the system encourages us to actually do things, and to not be bogged down in beurocracy and meetings of a zillion people. Given your own views on a need for more direct representation of students, I'm surprised you weren't more keen on the stakeholder model.

Another example of a system that dearly wants to work, but fails. When were students told about this? Have you any idea of the number of online web ct surveys that actually get completed? If there was publicity, did it work? Did you get a larger return than expected? Or at least as great? What was the percentage of returns???

Can anyone answer any of these?


I will happily answer this for you when it has been used to gather some information for one of the SSC sub-committees. But I can't now, as it has not been done yet.

Again, like I was saying, the system as it is ignores what people think.


Again, like I said- there could be a small element of truth in what you are saying in in my own opinion, the current SRC reps don't, but the 'system' does. But you fought to keep it above the more representative proposed models.

Anything else is a poor excuse for representation.


No honey, what is a poor excuse for representation is focusing entirely on student demands. The 'anything else' that you refer to (knowing what is going on within the university, and on representational issues nationally) is where a large amount of the focus should be. But you said in your initial post on here that you didn't think so. I think you confuse the idea of representation with 'direct representation of every student's views on everything' that's not what the SRC's for, it's not what the DoR's for, and I think you should be a bit more educated on it all by now. After all, you sat on the SRC, which in itself is damaging to students if you don't know your stuff.



No! Cerainly not. Let's Ignore the students, stuff what they say, our personal agendas are so much more important.


Hold on there- no one mentioned personal agendas when requesting that people utilised the system and e-mailed their reps and came to SRC with their issues! The SRC don't not ask students for advice on every issue because they want to push their own agenda, they don't do it because it is impractical, because a better system is in place, and that is not what an elected governing body is there to do. If you look at reps as working like MP's- dealing with your concerns when the electorate come to them, rather than knocking on every door in town to find out if there are any, you would see what I mean.

Yes, er, Laura....they don't, on the whole, actually know what goes on at SRC meetings


Largely because they don't want to-it's a bit boring to come to meetings or read minutes or to educate yourself ona system that's there to help. But you're quite happy to have a moan.


The SRC has tried to reach people in the past, and failed...So why be scared/against trying something else? Certiainly you tried things before, but they did not work, so try things again, but try different ones.


We're here to make decisions, policy, represent students- not to turn ourselves into a touring circus act to get people's attention. I'm not scared of trying anything- I just deplore the nonsense about dumbing down and spoon feeding seven thousand students when we have a committe room purpose built to meet in, the meetings are open, the minutes are on line and we are all contactable. Like I said, when it toured halls, no more people came, but the same amount moaned.

Sometimes you have to ask whether it's us not doing enough, or whether some people are intrinsically apathetic until they need help. No amount of glossy posters and webmail addresses set up for reps solves it.





[hr]

"What I hanker for, of course, is to be put at the beck and call of some very important hush-hush sort of man who needs to be driven very fast in a long-nosed powerful car to mysterious destinations...But either this type of man is dying out- which I should deplore- or else, which is more likely, he does his own driving."
"When I came back to Dublin, I was courtmartialled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence."
Laura
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:15 pm

Re:

Postby Grandpa on Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:47 pm

Quoting The Chap from 19:16, 4th Dec 2005

-I do not claim maturity, claiming maturity, as I've mentioned before, is your thing. Indeed it is the cornerstone of the arguements and retorts you adorn the boards with.


But in order to think I am immature, you must surely think yourself more mature than I. How could you recognise my innate immaturity otherwise? If this is true, then my case stands, you have stooped to my level and are at best as immature as you claim me to be.

Run along and play in the traffic now.


The "humerous stunt" that I "dared" (modest of you to suggest that one needs courage to poke fun at you!!!- Good God, man! You're head is really quite far up your backside. Bless!) was an example of what is called irony, apparently all the kids are into these days, probably a bit too modern for the likes of you.


There was no irony in it. It was quite a funny piss take, nothing more. Irony is a figure of speech in which the intended meaning is the opposite of that expressed by the words used; usually taking the form of sarcasm or ridicule (this part you managed, nothing more)in which laudatory expressions are used to imply condemnation or contempt.

Your use of the English language is appauling. I suggest you go and study it - I sincerely hope you are not a student of it already (lord knows I'm not).

Your intended meaning certainly was not the opposite of the words used.

Your knowledge of the english language needs some practice, sir. Go, play with the traffic, it's probably safer for you there - for if you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten.

There, sir, are two examples of irony - in the same sentance - oh cripes, what next? A whole paragraph? Take it, use it, learn from it, but I'd advise against bothering to use it for the time beinmg until you've done the rest...

-Again, I don't claim to be mature, I was merely pointing to the inadequacy of you basing your arguements on your age and the good four years or so you have over some of the "pesky kids" who try to passify you through rational and co-herent argument.


Again, you must have some notion of what maturity is, at least in comparison of yourself to I, as without it you would never have been able to tell me I was immature.

And I think you'll find the correct version is 'coherent', at least in modern day English.


[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]
We are gentlemen that neither in our hearts nor outward eyes envy the great nor shall the low despise.
Grandpa
 
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:42 am

Re:

Postby Al on Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:42 pm

Quoting Grandpa from 19:47, 4th Dec 2005

at least in comparison of yourself to I



And I think you will find the correct version of what you wrote would be "in comparison...to me".
Al
 
Posts: 3992
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Re:

Postby The chap on Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:51 pm

-I do not claim maturity, claiming maturity, as I've mentioned before, is your thing. Indeed it is the cornerstone of the arguements and retorts you adorn the boards with. [/quote]

But in order to think I am immature, you must surely think yourself more mature than I. How could you recognise my innate immaturity otherwise? If this is true, then my case stands, you have stooped to my level and are at best as immature as you claim me to be.

--One dosen't have to be skilled in something to recognise it. George Best was a good soccer player, people of all standards know that. You are immature, we can all see that. To be honest, though, I can't claim any level of maturity because I really don't know how one measures it. I can engage you in amusing debate, but does that make me mature? Probably not, given that I'm utilising what should be "finish essay" time doing this. Tell me how to measure my maturity and I will tell you if I am or not. Please.

Run along and play in the traffic now.

--No.


The "humerous stunt" that I "dared" (modest of you to suggest that one needs courage to poke fun at you!!!- Good God, man! You're head is really quite far up your backside. Bless!)

--Don't forget this bit! This bit's important!

was an example of what is called irony, apparently all the kids are into these days, probably a bit too modern for the likes of you.


There was no irony in it. It was quite a funny piss take, nothing more. Irony is a figure of speech in which the intended meaning is the opposite of that expressed by the words used; usually taking the form of sarcasm or ridicule (this part you managed, nothing more)in which laudatory expressions are used to imply condemnation or contempt.

--Actually it was ironic that I should accuse you of immaturity then conclude on a childish note.

Your use of the English language is appauling.

--Appaling is the corect spelling of this word, although your misspelling of it is ironic given the message you are putting accross. Well done. Amusing stuff!

I suggest you go and study it - I sincerely hope you are not a student of it already (lord knows I'm not).

--Christ, yes, my use of English is appauling. It always has been. But there it is.

Your intended meaning certainly was not the opposite of the words used.

--See above.

Your knowledge of the english language needs some practice, sir. Go, play with the traffic, it's probably safer for you there - for if you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten.

There, sir, are two examples of irony - in the same sentance - oh cripes, what next? A whole paragraph?
Take it, use it, learn from it,

--I will, sir, thank you!

but I'd advise against bothering to use it for the time beinmg until you've done the rest...

--What, like learnt to spell being?

-Again, I don't claim to be mature, I was merely pointing to the inadequacy of you basing your arguements on your age and the good four years or so you have over some of the "pesky kids" who try to passify you through rational and co-herent argument.


Again, you must have some notion of what maturity is, at least in comparison of yourself to I, as without it you would never have been able to tell me I was immature.

--Again, I need your assistance on this whole measuring maturity things. Thanks!

And I think you'll find the correct version is 'coherent', at least in modern day English.

--Yes, you're absolutely right, it is. Like I said my English is appauling.



Anyway, to conclude on a serious note, this started because I find your agressive mode very off putting, as do many people. You would do better to put accross points in a civilised and coherent (got it this time-thanks!) manner. It seems you have stuff to say, so why not say it well?
The chap
 
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Re:

Postby Grandpa on Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:54 pm

[s]Laura, I'm just going to respond to one para tonight (the most important in my view, as it has room for manouvre for both of our points of view). Only gonna do one now because I'm tired and I have a test tomorrow.

Quoting Laura from 19:33, 4th Dec 2005

Being students themselves who have stood for the various positions because of a desire to be representative of that group, yes I would say they do have some idea of what students think.


No, this just shows they have an idea what they themselves think. Just because they happen to be students and have happened to stand for election might show that they are concerned about something - but it certainly doesn't show what anyone else thinks.

Also, the 'issues' are not 100% the way you are defining them. The 'issues' affecting students that the SRC sets about discussing and attemting to do something about are not just those that students e-mail the reps with (and yes it does happen) they are issues that we may have an inside on, or have become educated about that are not simply a problem a student is having (the library has no books) they are problems that unbeknown to a lot of students, will affect them (the university's desire to have the recor relinquish the chair of court).


I know this, look at what I said before...
There's no reason why this cannot continue


and

Furthermore, I think you are right - you may get demands that are impossible to fulfill, however, you may also raise some other things that you or I have never even thought of. But what the heck, lets stay as we are and we'll never find out.


Laura, I've said I AGREE with you on some of this stuff - esp where it comes to the underlying issues we don't all hear about. But, on some of these things, e.g. the tesco matter with i/d cards, I suspect a lot COULD be done.(more on this in a bit)

What I'm saying is that a) you can't assume that just becuase someone is elected that they know what the general feel is throughout all students. To assume anything like this is ludicrous. To have a feeling for what you think may or may not be good, on the other hand, is not so ludicrous - but it is not necessarily the same as what people think. I'm saying that you need to take these things to the students to find out, otherwise both the system and the src (which is a BIG part of the system) fails in it's primary objective.

and, B) I'm saying that if you did ask people what they thought, right at the start of the year, you would probably get rid of peoples' need to email with matters that are unapproachable as you seem to think they are (NOTHING is unnapproachable, and if something is widely felt by the students, in a huge majority, then why not have the balls to stand up to the powers that be and challenge whatever it is. I'm not saying you can do this with everything, no way, but maybe some stuff this is possible for, and why shouldn't we??.

OK, look, I'm NOT saying we should do this, but just for example - if it is the law that prevents Tesco from accepting our student cards as i/d, then why not challenge that? It can be done, so why not do it? Have you asked all the students if they think it is worth our time doing it? Even if it just Tesco policy that prevents them from doing that, why not repreatedly challenge their policy. Look, I don't know what it is that prevents tesco from accepting these cards, but if people feel strongly about it, as you have suggested is the case, then where is the reason in not doing anything. Law can be challenged, and new laws written - to suggest that we are not the sort of association that would do that is to say that you are denying your students the chance to change something, and if it is something that can be changed for the better, all we need is the courage to stand up and do something in order to set the ball rolling.

I also don't think that the SRC itself should entirely set the agenda for what it does - I (obviously) think that if you want to do stuff for people, then you must ask those people, at least in part, what they want you to do. Otherwise all you succeed in doing is dictating - if you believe that democracy doesn't work, be my guest, carry on.

Like I said, I can't say if the immediate above is correct in it's assumptions about why tesco won't take our student cards (I am only using this as an example) but to say your hands are tied is never always true. Furthermore, the SRC doesn't even know what people think.


[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]
We are gentlemen that neither in our hearts nor outward eyes envy the great nor shall the low despise.
Grandpa
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:42 am

Re:

Postby Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:06 pm

I'm very interested to hear you picking up on the Tesco example...

When it first happened, I got in touch with Fife Police to check the situation.

Fife Police are more than happy for Tescos to use St Andrews matric cards as ID. They have told them that, and Tesco replied that they would accept them. The posters, on the other hand, had to stay up as it was a national initiative.

If Tesco is now not accepting them, then that is something I will take up again. Is that what is happening?


Surprisingly enough, a huge survey of student opinion was not needed for this. I am a student, I noticed it myself.

There are things that are issues that the general student body would not necessarily know are issues.
[hr]

University of St Andrews Clothing - http://www.standrewsclothing.com
Ben Reilly
 
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Re:

Postby Grandpa on Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:10 pm

Quoting The Chap from 20:51, 4th Dec 2005

on a serious note, this started because I find your agressive mode very off putting, as do many people. You would do better to put accross points in a civilised and coherent (got it this time-thanks!) manner. It seems you have stuff to say, so why not say it well?


Ok, on a serious note, I shall promise to endeavour to be as accomodating (as regards not being agressive) as far as others do not cross me. This is how this whole thing started ages ago with the bean incident (great name that...the bean incident).

But you also find my tone with regard to my age a bit off-putting, seriously, I was arguing with you just back there (about the english and all) and you didn't prove me wrong. I will take it as a measure of my, admittedly only slightly, longer existence on this earth - spelling mistakes or no speling mistakes.

Similarly to you, I find other peoples insults of me on a public website totally out of order, yet I do not ask for an apology. However, I will promise to be as non agressive towards others as they afford me to be towards them.

I hope this is a good enough compromise for you?

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]
We are gentlemen that neither in our hearts nor outward eyes envy the great nor shall the low despise.
Grandpa
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:42 am

Re:

Postby Laura on Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:14 pm

I agree that there are issues like that that we can try to do our best to help with- Ben's getting involved there did make a difference (they are still accepting mine as ID...which is unfortunately a frequent requirement since I look about ten) but there is a national initiative within most retailers with off sales liscenses to only accept what the law states as acceptable- a full driver's liscence, a passport or one of the highly fake-able 'Prove It' cards...

[hr]

"What I hanker for, of course, is to be put at the beck and call of some very important hush-hush sort of man who needs to be driven very fast in a long-nosed powerful car to mysterious destinations...But either this type of man is dying out- which I should deplore- or else, which is more likely, he does his own driving."
"When I came back to Dublin, I was courtmartialled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence."
Laura
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:15 pm

Re:

Postby Grandpa on Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:26 pm

Quoting Ben Reilly from 21:06, 4th Dec 2005
There are things that are issues that the general student body would not necessarily know are issues.


I know there are things that people would not necessarily know are issues, but come on, why not inform them of what you are doing? Why should they be kept in the dark?

Tell them why it is important.

Ask them what they think.

Judge their reaction (as a whole) to prompt you in your representative actions.

Do not sit there and assume, go out and ask.

On the tesco thing...I was using it as a hypothetical example (but i think I've heard of someone not being allowed to use it) - but that's your job, and you should know if there are people suffering because of it. Oh, unless you don't ask them ofcourse. Ooops, I forgot - no-one does ask the students what's going on (please don't say they should come to you...some may, but most won't)

[s]Ben...you were a student...that's why you got your degree...now you are a sab. stop dreaming and come back to reality! (joking)[/s]



[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]
We are gentlemen that neither in our hearts nor outward eyes envy the great nor shall the low despise.
Grandpa
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:42 am

Re:

Postby Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:53 pm

How would you like us to inform them?

How about a full page advert in The Saint?

Or a Students' Association magazine (hint, there used to be one...)

Or how about I could make a report to the SRC at each meeting and the minutes could be put online...



The one thing I would agree with you about it that there needs to be more communication of what is going on. And that is one of the reasons why we have a new paid member of staff whose job includes communication, and a sabbatical whose remit mandates them to communicate what is going on.

I'll now say to you what you said to me about something different-- don't try and change the system, try and make it work.


You say that you are not talking about bringing in direct democracy- but in that case, why don't you tell us exactly what it is you are suggesting?

edits: trying to clarify...
Ben Reilly
 
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Re:

Postby The chap on Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:54 pm

But you also find my tone with regard to my age a bit off-putting, seriously, I was arguing with you just back there (about the english and all) and you didn't prove me wrong. I will take it as a measure of my, admittedly only slightly, longer existence on this earth - spelling mistakes or no speling mistakes.

--Actually, I think i proved it was a misunderstanding on the ironic front, so it's honours even there.

However, my elderly chum, I'm afraid this mature student has got a few years on you! Again, though, age does not make us more mature. Like I said, I don't know how it's measured, and would be interested as to how. Its just that as a mature student I am always aware that I could come accross the wrong way if I try to tell people that I know I know better because I'm older- people just don't want to hear it.

The bottom line is you have just showed that you can argue the point well without being lured into silliness and biting when baited. That's more like it.
The chap
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:04 pm

Re:

Postby Grandpa on Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:58 pm

Quoting Ben Reilly from 21:53, 4th Dec 2005
How would you like us to inform them?


I'll assume you are being serious...

Let them know any way you like, as long as it is agreed and gives people the chance to find out what's going on. But I still prefer the ask and respond version I outlined (badly) waaay above, because it will get people actively involved and informed - I don't see the problem with that, unless it is a threat to you (which I'm positive it's not...however cold and calculating you can be (I'm joking again)).

Or a Students' Association magazine (hint, there used to be one...)


great idea!
Or how about I could make a report to the SRC at each meeting and the minutes could be put online...


Yeah, well, Ben, that's only just started happening....and as Laura said - that website is so expletively messy, and so badly updated that I doubt if the minutes will carry on going up (and apparently they're not even the agreed ones anyway...so anyone quopting from them could be told not to).


[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]
We are gentlemen that neither in our hearts nor outward eyes envy the great nor shall the low despise.
Grandpa
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:42 am

Re:

Postby Grandpa on Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:01 pm

Quoting The Chap from 21:54, 4th Dec 2005
The bottom line is you have just showed that you can argue the point well without being lured into silliness and biting when baited. That's more like it.


Thanks, I very much appreciate that.



[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]
We are gentlemen that neither in our hearts nor outward eyes envy the great nor shall the low despise.
Grandpa
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:42 am

Re:

Postby Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:02 pm

If the SRC wants to know more about what's been going on, then they should ask me.

If you think the SRC should be asking me more, then (if you're not willing to do it) ask a member to ask me.
Ben Reilly
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:55 pm

Re:

Postby Grandpa on Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:29 pm

Quoting Ben Reilly from 21:53, 4th Dec 2005

don't try and change the system, try and make it work.


What I actually said was this:

We should do away with the ''structure'' all together and simply get the representatives doing their jobs first. If they did that, then they would prove themselves worthy of the next step...making the structure worthwhile. But until then, there's no point playing around with bloody structure because no-one's doing anything anyway.

Now, on this point I have since accepted that a few things have changed since I sat on SRC, but still, this remains to be proven to the students at large, in my opinion.

What I am talking about really Reilly (bad joke, i know, but i thought I'd throw it in anyway...couldn't help myself) is why mess around with a structure (which is essentially a diagram of how things work, in my view, before you've got anybody doing anything that resembles a structure.

I seriously do not want to get into a convo about last year, but I remember not a lot going on in a few corners - but people were never asked nor encouraged to do anything...just left around to turn up to meetings.

Now, as I said, this may have changed, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say, and I think that nothing will change from an outside perspective until the students are brought closer.

Look at these other posts that agree with me:

Posted by munchingfoo at 10:46, 26th Nov
I have to agree with Grandpa on the state of the union's website. It really is disgraceful.


Posted by Dave the Explosive Newt at 08:42, 28th Nov
This is what I asked should appear on the union website (several weeks ago)

Posted by harmless loony at 09:51, 28th Nov
I too would like to know what individual SRC members have achieved in their posts - especially given that 1st semester is rapidly drawing to a close.
I vote in every blummin election I have been around to vote in and yet haven't seen anything viable come out of the Union - and on the matters that really were of great concern (eg: rent rises) the Union rolled over and let itself be cuddled then kicked by Brian Lang.


You say that you are not talking about bringing in direct democracy- but in that case, why don't you tell us exactly what it is you are suggesting?


Well, maybe in your view it is some distorted version of it, i don't know, and what's more it really doesn't matter what it's bloody name is...all that matters is the possibilioty of it doing more for representation than is happening now.

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]
We are gentlemen that neither in our hearts nor outward eyes envy the great nor shall the low despise.
Grandpa
 
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Re:

Postby Grandpa on Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting Ben Reilly from 22:02, 4th Dec 2005
If the SRC wants to know more about what's been going on, then they should ask me.

If you think the SRC should be asking me more, then (if you're not willing to do it) ask a member to ask me.


I said nothing about you nor your position in the last few posts, and

I think YOU (plural) should be asking THEM much MORE.

As they don't know what you (plural) do.

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]
We are gentlemen that neither in our hearts nor outward eyes envy the great nor shall the low despise.
Grandpa
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:42 am

Re:

Postby Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:36 pm

Good to see that that's clarified.

I disagree somewhat though. Sabbaticals have got more than enough to do without having to be on the backs of the members to ensure they do the job they said they would do when they stood.

Anybody can get on people's backs, and we'd probably have a better SRC if people did ask more questions.

edit:
In fact, having been one of the more questioning people on SRC as a non-sabb, I would say it is imperative that it is not a sabbatical doing it.
Ben Reilly
 
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Re:

Postby Grandpa on Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:42 pm

Quoting Ben Reilly from 22:36, 4th Dec 2005
Good to see that that's clarified.

I disagree somewhat though. Sabbaticals have got more than enough to do without having to be on the backs of the members to ensure they do the job they said they would do when they stood.

Anybody can get on people's backs, and we'd probably have a better SRC if people did ask more questions.

edit:
In fact, having been one of the more questioning people on SRC as a non-sabb, I would say it is imperative that it is not a sabbatical doing it.


Sorry, my bad. I meant you (pl) as in the src. and they as in students. oops


[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]
We are gentlemen that neither in our hearts nor outward eyes envy the great nor shall the low despise.
Grandpa
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:42 am

Re:

Postby Inga on Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:23 pm

Main Entry: representative government
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: a form of government in which the citizens delegate authority to elected representatives

I love my dictionary.
wait wait...I just want to re-copy this part because I like it so much-- ...delegate authority to elected representatives.
In electing a representative you essentially forfeit your right to be asked your opinion (however unjust this may seem, that's kind of the point you make up your mind on who will represent you and then they make up your mind from then on.)
Browsing through this thread made me think that what Grandpa really wants is a change in the type of government.
But then, I'm not a gov major...I don't even go to this University, for that matter.


I love procrastinating.
Inga
 

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