Suggestions to improve the union

Welcome to the Union message board. Here's your opportunity to tell us what you think of what we're doing on your behalf. Enjoy! - Oli Walker, Head of Media, Marketing and Design, http://www.YourUnion.netPlease post any requests for advice (about anything) on The Sinner's ADVICE board. Ta!


Postby phil on Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:40 pm

Maybe if you had done your job properly when you were in office the Union wouldn't have been in a steady decline since you left. Or maybe that's just the way things are.

just had to laugh at this. surely its a compliment if things have declined since I left (he does note above that things have gone downhill since his first year when i was VPS)


Postby niall on Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:54 pm

these replies arent directed at phil, but are updating on what he's said...

believe me green looks better.

and there are now black drapes covering the green blocks

a rope barrier would reduce the fire exits from venue 1, meaning its capacity would be reduced.

BT was talking about the beer bars capacity today, and legally because of the fire exit sizes can hold 150 people, which is larger than its actually capacity... putting a rope barrier down that corridor converts that fire exit from a double to a single exit therefore reducing the capacity!
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Postby phil on Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:09 pm

hurrah for black drapes. my point wasnt that green looked better than blak, merely better than 6 month old graffitti


Postby Rennie on Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:53 pm

So, Phil, are you not going to answer the questions in my post or defend your original statements that I say are wrong? Is it because you can't?
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Postby phil on Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:21 pm

was trying to just finish this as i suspect were boring people,and no one but us is bothering to read this, (and nic who is forced to before she puts my posts on, but if you insist...

Ok, quickly, as I don't want to waste my time with you, I will run through your either idiotic or plain stupid parts of your post which annoyed me.

1. by the time they get to the door to be turned away it is to late for people to see the rules. there should be no large posters on the window as it blocks vision from inside, (check that one with a porter before you shoot your mouth off), and the rules are, or at least were, on the pillar next to the porters desk already, so any notice would need to be outside

2. already answered above

3. paint looks very bad when repainted frequently - clubs generally don't repaint, they varnish floors and refurbish every 3-5 years

4. already answered. on what i did with my time in office i refer you to my agm report

5. you agree with me

6. i don't think the union giving away large amounts of free drink is a good idea, if anything because it contravenes the 2003 licensing act guidelines. the brewer deals come up when they have promotional spend available, and our bar manager is as good as any at getting them

7. if the porters box was a large glass and pine reception area would the union be more professional? if the venue entry had a ticket booth would it be more professional? professionality is such a subjective and personal term that the point of this debate alone could go on forever.

already answered the price on drinks. if you want the price to go down you lose promotional spend

if beatons exists as welfare for students then it needs to be cheapest in st andrews, which it cannot be. if it is not for welfare the price and menu is set by demand and production costs. also the ingredients are to some extent governed by northern services, our buying consortium

answered the maccy ds point. also probably very few of the 20% of american children you mentioned attend st andrews

£13000 might get more than 1 manager, but not a club manager, a bar manager, a bar deputy manager, a non commercial services manager, a full time welfare representative and a building supervisor, all of which positions will still be required whoever is manager

if they were close to the union wall (2 metres or less from the overhang) they would cover very little space, look a bit crap and require other lighting for basic safety standards, which would then swamp them. decent projectors covering a substantial part of the building with images bright enough to be impressive will cost rather more than £3000

you can always find something to do, a project to take on or work to undertake in the union. how many of the points you've raised here have you taken to SSC exactly?

with all the options available to them i think for 1/4 of the possible customers coming into the union once a week isn't too shabby

the ssc can mandate any of its officers to do anything relating to the union. as is say it is up to you to define your role. however if you see doing a certain amount is more than your fair share you really arent fit to be a represntative of the members of a chairty

no, i'm not being sarcastic simply pointing out that if there is more enthusiasm amongst union officials this rubs off.

no substantial money was spent between 1999 and 2003. all of the lighting bought is in one of the rigs and programmed into the controlling desks. if some are not functioning it may be awaiting repair, but the somewhat crowded events program, with venue 1 constantly in use this term means people are struggling for time to do it.

the turnover is over 400 000 surplusses after all costs over 150 000. check the figures.

why have i not done my research? this accusation confuses me? do operate on the logic that if you say it is is true? have you been appointed god and no one told me?

I take it your response means you don't know how much the union spends on maintenance then, and work in afternoons has to be minor and non disruptive, not scrubbing floors in the bar and repainting walls in public areas

i think your arguments all rest on your 'i say' logic, or on the notion that you shouldn't have to do any work as an elected offical unless your paid.

all the sabs i have ever worked with were always trying to do their best for the union, going well beyond what you would consider fair work for £12 000 or so. i think your suggestion that they have done nothing is highly insulting, and the union has changed dramatically since 1998. for it to improve further it needs the support of all its officials, people committed to driving the association forward. you, i think its fair to say, do not fall into this category.

now unless you have something constructive to say please stop posting


Postby Rennie on Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:31 pm

As you say, we should stop posting as we are trying to deal with too many seperate issues at once, I'm even losing track.

However, you still didn't answer my post with much sense. I'm willing to either draw a line under it, or debate individual points - but no more long rambling posts, they take too much time.
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Postby firey on Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:12 pm

Both Phil and Rennie are both clearly interested in the running of the Union. They both have different ideas about how it could be run - but they have ideas nonetheless.

Neither of them has the power to implement any ideas, so where the fuck are the sabs who are supposed to listen to these ideas and comment on them?


Postby Rennie on Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:50 pm

It's sad that no sabs respond on this board to the comments, they definately read them, so why not give any answers?
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Postby Tina on Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:28 pm

So, is the union any good or not?


Postby Flaps on Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:31 pm


I have just found this forum. As a former student i thought i should add some info on a technical level.

on external projectors ones to cover that kind of a distance with that level of background light and at such a sharp angle, you would be looking at £10000s - Not true at all. If they were set up correctly, from overhanging temporary brackets (so no planning permission is needed) then they could be positioned close to the union wall, solving ther problem of dispersion. A projector could then be bought for about £3,000 for a good model, cheaper for worse. Again, do the maths.

[caf]Phil is correct here. For you to be able to get any sizeable projection image from were you intend to hang these you would need a projector package worth considerably more then 3000. You will need a proj which is able to have interchangable lenses and you would then need to procure an ultra wide angle lens. If you wanted to make use of projection you would be better off buying a better projector and mounting it on one of the car park containers. Obviously with a weatherproof dome. This way you will get a proper image size and it might be halfway decent. This said if you scrimp on the projector the image will not be bright enough, trust me.

the note of yours on the projectors and lighting rigs shows an alarming ignorance. the union has 2 video projectors, one bought 6 years, and one swapped for 4 broken lights in the summer which the insurer had written off, so the union is actually not depreciating any projectors. on the lighting rig the union has spent aout £30 000 - £40000 on fabric and lighting in venue 1 since 2000, less than £10 000 a year, and all needed if you compare the place I came to to the venue you have now. - I don't know exact figures, all I know is that a large amount of money gets spent on lighting each year and it is rarely all used at once. This seems to be wasting money on something which is already good enough for the job, concentrate on getting people in there to actually see the lights etc..

[caf]The lighting is not to be used all at once. That is the whole point. Also there are two distinct lighting rigs- A disco rig and a theatre rig with a fudge in the middle for gigs.
However from an artistic point of view the disco rig should not be used all at once as otherwise you run the risk of making the place look gaudy and very bright.
Which is not how you want it looking. You get more effect out of the rig if you use different groups of fixtures at diff times to maximise effect.

Also a quick note on cost, equipment in this industry is very expensive. Therefore for the cost at which the union has procured the number lighting/ rigging equipment shows enormous value for money.

Should you wish to discuss lighting/projetcion/rigging in more depth please do not hesitate to contact me at chris_ferrante at flyingpig dot com


Postby Alex Muir on Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:53 pm

Right, we're a year on here and ABSOLUTELY FUCK ALL HAS BEEN DONE.

Not one of these suggestions has been implemented - though the need for a queuing barrier for the bop has been negated by the fact there is no queue any more!
Alex Muir


Postby RJ Covino on Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:34 am

[s]Alex Muir wrote on 21:53, 28th Nov 2004:
Right, we're a year on here and ABSOLUTELY FUCK ALL HAS BEEN DONE.

As has already been pointed out on another thread, each and every suggestion which was posted on this and similar threads across the Sinner since it's inception were compiled, edited down, and seperated into various categories for discussion. The first series of suggestions was brought before the SSC tonight, resulting in what is generally agreed to be the first productive meeting of that body in some time.

Many thanks to those of you who have offered in your various ways suggestions to improve the Association.
RJ Covino
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Postby Alex Muir on Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:12 am

I am impressed. I hope your meeting goes well!
Alex Muir


Postby Captain Flash on Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:50 am

I think that we should bring back the Schoolgirl bop, and the traffic light bop(red: taken; orange: not sure; green: looking to pull).
These were the meatmarket at its best.
Captain Flash
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