Important decision

[LizBot]

It's not very often that vegans are faced with a situation where they can eat EVERYTHING on a menu, hence my dilemma: I am passing through Glasgow tomorrow, and so obviously I will be making a stop at MONO. I have already tried their seitan stir-fry, as well as their all-day fry-up breakfast, but I am so torn about what to try next. Anyone who has been to MONO: do you have any suggestions?

[donnamatrix]

Mono is an absolute dream! I hope this reply isn't too late for you. For me the choice has to be the Mono burger - it's the best, with cheese and mushrooms and all sorts on top. With spicy chips, too!

Let us know how your visit goes ) I'm in Glasgow next Friday and I can't wait for Mono!

[papercutheart]

Wheres in Glasgow is MONO?

[donnamatrix]

[s]papercutheart wrote on 15:26, 2nd Apr 2005:
Wheres in Glasgow is MONO?


It's on King's Court, near Mr Benn's if you know that?

http://www.yell.com/search/ShowMap?nat_ ... bleSeed%3D

You really ought to try it out next time you're in Glasgow!

http://www.rampantscotland.com/besteati ... v_mono.htm

[hr]
"In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka."
Isaac Bashevis Singer

[Grandpa]

I was vegan for 6 months once, and I thought it was very healthy indeed, but I must say, it ain't half as tasty as being an omnivore!


[hr]
God save The Queen, long live Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.

[donnamatrix]

[s]Grandpa wrote on 06:47, 4th Apr 2005:
I was vegan for 6 months once, and I thought it was very healthy indeed, but I must say, it ain't half as tasty as being an omnivore!

Really? I much prefer the taste of vegan stuff than meat. I can't even eat meat substitutes now. Are you veggie?

[davearnie]

Must disagree it is very unhealthy to be a vegan or vegertarian, the only reason people get away with it nowadays is because there is soo much mass produced alternatives which are made in a laboratory.

I mean vegan burgers and vegan cheese lmao.

Sorry dont mean to be rude, but i have read a lot about neutrition and things along they lines, the body needs a certain amount of things like protein for instance and iron and such.

Now you can say that one can get protein from sources like beans and pea nuts, and iron from certain vegetables.
However it is not the same, protein is made up of a number of amino acids, to get a complete protein you have to combine different food substances. As for iron, there is very little in vegetables - not enough really unless you eat lots and lots.

We are designed to eat a combination of meat and vegetables, we were not designed as omnivores.

It is unhealthy, you end up with band muscle mass- as your body needs protein to build muscle and in fact if it doesnt get enough, will eat up muscle mass for energy.

Anyway there you go, i think it is totally daft to be a vegetarian, it is perfectly natural to eat meat - and if you dont like the way it is processed or killed , then you can get meat that is killed in a humane way , so that is a bad example.

Thats my tupince worth.

[George]

I'm afraid I have to completely disagree with your disagreement dave!! That is the same as saying that it is unhealthy to follow a meat eating diet if you only eat McDonalds burgers and fry ups every day!!

I have read a lot about nutrition too and agree with you that the body needs enough protein and iron. But there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that a strict vegetarian cannot obtain these if they follow a suitable diet, in the same way that a meat eater must follow a suitable diet to get their protein and iron. You don't need to eat foods from animals to have enough protein in your diet. Plant proteins alone can provide enough of the essential and non-essential amino acids, as long as sources of dietary protein are varied and caloric intake is high enough to meet energy needs. In addition, vegetarians may indeed have a greater risk of iron deficiency than nonvegetarians - you are correct there. However, dried beans, spinach, enriched products, brewer's yeast and dried fruits are all good plant sources of iron. So you dont have to eat "loads and loads" or vegetables to get your iron intake, just eat the right ones!!

So I'm afraid that to contradict you, I can say that one can get sufficient protein and iron from vegetarian sources!

As for your statemet that we were designed as meat-eaters, well I completely disagree with you there. If you look at the facts, we were actually designed to be herbivores. Here are some examples for you:

*The lower jaws of carnivores move only upward and downward and they swallow their food without mastication. The jaws of herbivores can move up and down, left and right i.e. in all directions. They swallow their food after chewing it.
*The length of intestines of carnivores is less, almost equal to the length of their bodies and about six times the length of their torso. Due to small intestines they throw out the flesh food before it gets contaminated and poisoned. Herbivores have longer intestines, about four times their body-length or twelve times the torso, which cannot quickly expel any flesh-food.
*The Blood Lipo-Proteins of the carnivores are different from those of herbivores. In human beings, the Blood-Lipo-Proteins are similar to those of the herbivores.

These are only a couple of examples, but already i hope you can see that the above facts go to prove that nature has made human body similar to those of vegetarian species like the cow, horse, elephant, camel, giraffe and bulls etc. The various parts of tge human body are actually designed for obtaining and digesting only vegetable foods. YOu could even argue that it would be unhealthy to eat meat, because our intestines are far too long!!

So you see Dave, it is not at all "unhealthy" or "un-natural" being a vegetarian and many studies show that by eating the right amount of fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes, vegetarians can get the nutrients they need. So there YOU go, I think it is totally daft to be a meat-eater, it is perfectly UNnatural to eat meat! I just want you to see both sides of the argument. You respect us veggies, and we might just respect you meat eaters!

Thats my tuppince worth.

[flarewearer]

[s]davearnie wrote on 20:28, 6th Apr 2005:
Must disagree it is very unhealthy to be a vegan or vegertarian, the only reason people get away with it nowadays is because there is soo much mass produced alternatives which are made in a laboratory.

Many Hindus are strict vegetarians, and have been living that way for hundereds of years, its nothing to do with "nowadays". I do not eat meat, and I also do not eat any of the "alternatives". The best vegetarian food is food that is vegetarian in spite of meat, not because of it. (I mean that it happens not to have any meat in it, not that it is attempting to be meat free but pose as meat.)

I mean vegan burgers and vegan cheese lmao.

Yes I LMAO at these also.

Sorry dont mean to be rude, but i have read a lot about neutrition and things along they lines, the body needs a certain amount of things like protein for instance and iron and such.
Now you can say that one can get protein from sources like beans and pea nuts, and iron from certain vegetables.
However it is not the same, protein is made up of a number of amino acids, to get a complete protein you have to combine different food substances. As for iron, there is very little in vegetables - not enough really unless you eat lots and lots.

You've obviously read some elementary nutrition but not any molecular biology. Proteins are polypeptides, that is they are complex molecules made up of many smaller peptide subunits. It is the se peptides that are composed of Amino Acids. Muscle (meat) is, in all cases, formed of Actin and Myosin, two Proteins. When you eat meat, your body digests the animal Protein into its constituent peptides and amino acids, from which it can then fashion its' own peptides and amino acids. True, there are some amino acids and some fatty acids that can only be sourced from animal sources, but these are not essential. This can be demonstrated by the fact that a vegetarian from birth will not neccesarily grow up any more stunted that an omnivore.

We are designed to eat a combination of meat and vegetables, we were not designed as omnivores.

As explained above, we were designed as herbivores / vegetarians, but have evolved a capacity to eat and digest meat.

It is unhealthy, you end up with band muscle mass- as your body needs protein to build muscle and in fact if it doesnt get enough, will eat up muscle mass for energy.

Some FACTS;
According to reputable sources such as the American Dietetic Association, American Heart Association, British Medical Association, and the Mayo Clinic, vegetarian diets offer a number of health benefits compared to non-vegetarian diets. Vegetarians as a group compared to non-vegetarians have lower body mass indices, lower levels of cholesterol, lower blood pressure, and less incidence of heart disease, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, some forms of cancer, renal disease, dementia, and osteoporosis

As for weight loss, in a year-long study comparing Dean Ornish's vegetarian diet to Weight Watchers, The Zone Diet, and The Atkins Diet, Dean Ornish's diet showed the most weight-loss.

"Vegetarians have lower rates of obesity, coronary heart disease, high blood pressure, large bowel disorders, cancers and gallstones." - British_Medical_Association

"Vegetarians often live longer and suffer less from several chronic diseases." - ADA

"Diabetes is much less likely to be a cause of death in vegetarians" - ADA

"95 per cent of all food poisoning comes from meat and animal products" - British Medical Association

Anyway there you go, i think it is totally daft to be a vegetarian, it is perfectly natural to eat meat - and if you dont like the way it is processed or killed , then you can get meat that is killed in a humane way , so that is a bad example.

Thats my tupince worth.


Yes well thanks for your tuppence worth, its' just a shame most of your facts were incorrect and your arguments flawed. And there are many reasons for people wanting to be vegetarian / vegan / or not just eat meat. You obviously can't understand this.

And why did you feel it neccessary to give your "tuppence" worth? It is a vegetarian board off the main board, what are you contributing to it apart from falsehoods? If you have a problem with vegetarians or vegetarianism, then keep it to yourself. Do you see anyone on this board raving about how unhealthy a meat-based diet is or about how they can't understand why people whould eat meat? No you dont, so go away and be quiet, or come bag with a better argument and some solid facts.

[hr]
[s]It's 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas and half a pack of cigarettes. It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses. Hit it.[/s]
http://www.magnificentoctopus.com/

[donnamatrix]

Hi,

Intelligent discussion is always good, but I would like to point out that this board is primarily for the use of vegetarians and vegans, and those genuinely interested in cruelty-free living. Talk about how unhealthy it is to be veggie/vegan is not constructive for our purposes on this board. One of my worries when having this board set up was that we were bound to get people trying to 'disprove' vegetarianism/veganism - this is not what this board is for. Too often veggies/vegans can't discuss relevant issues on The Sinner because they are attacked by people trying to change their minds. This board is intended to be a place where this doesn't happen. Please keep this in mind when posting.

And, for the record, vegan cheese and burgers are central to some people's diet because they crave the taste of meat and cheese. I personally don't eat either much, but if it weren't for these things fewer people would be vegan.

P.S. I know it's tempting to correct people's spelling, but it's not really necessary. It can come across as pretty mean.

[hr][s]"Those who claim to care about the well-being of human beings and the preservation of our environment should become vegetarians for that reason alone. They would thereby increase the amount of grain available to feed people elsewhere, reduce pollution, save water and energy, and cease contributing to the clearing of forests."
--Peter Singer[/s]

[George]

[s]donnamatrix wrote on 13:24, 7th Apr 2005:[i]
Hi,

Yup, I agree, the board shouldnt be used as a ground for arguing the pro's and cons of vegetarianism, but at the same time, it is nice to be aware of all the reasons for eating meat and not eating meat. I have been a vegetarian for the past 11 years, but at the same time I respect meat eaters because it is their choice to eat meat just as it is my choice not to eat meat. So everyone should just let each other be :)

I also agree, it is really quite petty to correct other peoples spelling, especially if they spelt it correct in the first time round. Don't be mean to Dave flarewearer, he was right, protein is atually spelt that way ;)

Ok, so here's a new thread....why did you become a veggie? I think that my main reason was that I thought that as long as there was an alternative to killing animals, I'd rather eat that. Also, I cant justiy actually eating an animal if I couldnt kill it if that makes sense. I would never want to kill something like a cow...its so peaceful! So i'd rather be a vegetarian :) But at the same time, my grandfather worked with Aberdeen Angus bulls for a large part of his life so that part of the family are all big meat eaters, but as I said before, its up to everyone to make up their own decisions about what they eat.

Ok, sorry, rambling on!! Why did you become a veggie/vegan?

[flarewearer]

Yes I probably should resist, but it was a deliberate attempt to sound condescending and patronising as i didn't particularly like his tone. I shall try resist in future... ;o~

[hr][s]It's 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas and half a pack of cigarettes. It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses. Hit it.[/s]
http://www.magnificentoctopus.com/

[davearnie]

ok sorry if i offended people, i do however have a genuine question - as i am very interested in healthy diets and nutrition be they vegetarian or not.

Ok so, I am a weight lifter - or to be more precise bodybuilder, that is not to say im massive or anything but i use weights to change the shape and build up my muscles.

I have found in my research and through experiance that my body needs a lot more protein than normal in order to build significant mass. I know this because at one point i did not eat more protein and did a bit of lifting and gained pretty much no mass, then i started eating more protein and gained more muscle.

I estimate i need about 0.75 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of my bodyweight , which would make it in the region of 132 grams minimum per day.

Bear in mind that this in not any old protein but quality protein with all the essential amino acids required for the body to produce muscle efficiantly.

So here comes the question. How would one go about getting that amount of quality protein in their diet on a vegetarian diet? That is without having to resort to eating lots of the same food or indeed having to eat lots and lots of food.

thankyou
Dave

[donnamatrix]

Hi Dave,

I don't know much about this myself, but you could try running a Google search for what you're looking for. I found this, don't know if it's helpful:
http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2003issue4 ... weight.htm

Good luck!

Donna

[hr]

[s]"Those who claim to care about the well-being of human beings and the preservation of our environment should become vegetarians for that reason alone. They would thereby increase the amount of grain available to feed people elsewhere, reduce pollution, save water and energy, and cease contributing to the clearing of forests."
--Peter Singer[/s]

[flarewearer]

Quoting LizBot from 20:46, 1st Apr 2005
It's not very often that vegans are faced with a situation where they can eat EVERYTHING on a menu, hence my dilemma: I am passing through Glasgow tomorrow, and so obviously I will be making a stop at MONO. I have already tried their seitan stir-fry, as well as their all-day fry-up breakfast, but I am so torn about what to try next. Anyone who has been to MONO: do you have any suggestions?

Tofu on toast

[hr]

[s]It's 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas and half a pack of cigarettes. It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses. Hit it.[/s]
http://www.magnificentoctopus.com/