Christian Voice Rides Again (more Christian Bashing)

[Paul]

[[s]LonelyPilgrim wrote on 05:21, 18th Jan 2005:
I'd also like to point out that quoting scripture in an argument with an atheist, such as Rob, is pointless and rather stupid. It carries no weight, and in fact, makes you appear to be blind to the fact that not everyone assumes the Bible is an ultimate authority.

I am aware that not everyone assumes that the Bible is the ultimate authority, however God has chosen to use the preaching of his Word to bring those who will hear to faith.

“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? – Romans 10:14

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” – Romans 10:17

and Jesus said:

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” – John 5:39

In the Tenach, we have:

“Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” – Isaiah 55:6-11

Not everyone will be brought to faith, but those whose eyes and ears are not opened will have no excuse on Judgment Day.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” – John 3:36

“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” – I Corinthians 1:17-25

“Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. – Proverbs 3:5-7

[Paul]

[s]exnihilo wrote on 12:40, 18th Jan 2005:
... Quoting the Old Testament at Jews to support the notion of the Messiah is crass.


exnihilo, it may be crass, or foolishness, but as Christians we are required to preach the Gospel to every creature As as been mentioned in a previous post, this involces quoting from scripture, for "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".

do you want to win $1,000?

Head for this web-site http://www.familybible.org/Articles/Bib ... bility.htm, and "if you can find someone other than Yeshua, either living or dead, who can fulfill only half of the predictions concerning Messiah that are given in Messiah in Both Testaments by Fred John Meldau, the Christian Victory Publishing Company of Denver is ready to give you a $1,000 reward."


Just to let you know, that involves 162 prophecies being fulfilled in one person.

[Paul]

[s]exnihilo wrote on 12:40, 18th Jan 2005:
... Quoting the Old Testament at Jews to support the notion of the Messiah is crass.


Oh, and Exnihilo, I should have said, Jewish blood flows in my veins.

It also flowed in the veins of all the New Testament writers, except Luke, who was a Gentile.

And of course, Jesus Christ (Christ is a Greek word meaning 'anointed', and is equivalent to the Hebrew 'Meshiach') was of David's line.

[exnihilo]

Obviously I'm impressed with your knoeledge of scripture, and enlightened by your scintillating presentation. However, I think to argue with you on this subject would be less productive than it was with Rob. I'm Jewish, I don't believe in your Christ's divinity, I never will and I do not appreciate attempts to convert me, so save your time.

Christians would do well to listen to the Talmud's message and not try to convert anyone. If your concept of Christ is correct, he's a forgiving 'God' and whether I acknowledge him or not I can still go to Heaven if I lead a good life. If not, and the only way is through Christ, well bad luck for me and for the billions upon billions who weren't lucky enough to live in Europe and the Near East in the last 2,000 years.

And, trust me, I know the Tanakh pretty well, as well as th Talmud and all the Mishnot too - I don't need a refresher course on Messianic prophecy. As to fulfilling the prophecy, surely you don't intend to argue that books written centuries after the fact ascribing characteristics to someone by those in whose interest it was to prove him the Messiah count as evidence? I hope not.

Next, of the line of David? How? And I think it is fair to say that anyone who worshipped a false Messiah (such as the apostles, say) has pretty much abrogated worship of the God of the Jews, so that they were born Jews is of little account to what they later did.

Finally, your translation and my translation differ. You say mine is incorrect because it does not agree with your preconceived notions - and, yet, mine is clearly the more 'christian' translation as it promotes tolerance and understanding. Doubtless, in your world view, I'm twice damned for being both Jewish and gay? If so, your concept of God is definitely not one in which I choose to partake and your dogma and propaganda is of less than no interest to me.

It really is an attitude like yours which makes a Christian Bashing Thread necesasary. I quote from the great Rabbi Hillel once more, though I could pick a dozen like it from the Talmud (written in honour of a vengeful God who seems far more forgiving than your Christian one):

That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it.

[Pender Native]

[s]exnihilo wrote on 15:12, 18th Jan 2005:

Christians would do well to listen to the Talmud's message and not try to convert anyone.

What does the Talmud say about not converting anyone? This sounds interesting. And what precisely is the Talmud? My knowledge of Judaism is a bit patchy

[exnihilo]

The Talmud is a collection of Rabbinical teachings on the Law - and one of the many things it says is that Jews should not seek to convert others, but they should be welcoming those who come to them in earnestness. Point being that if you want to convert it must be a conscious and thought out and serioous decision - not as a result of pressure or because you were taken with some badly printed cartoon strip tract.

But, it's not simply a question of showing up at a synagogue and asking to join, there's a year (minimum) of study and testing before you can even be considered. We take the very sensible view that a man who would throw off one set of beliefs for another might well do so again, so we want to be sure.

You may well be familiar with one famous line from the Talmud: "he who saves a single life, saves the world entire"

[James]

[s]exnihilo wrote on 12:40, 18th Jan 2005:
If the quoting ... is crass.

(Saving space)


Thanks for clearing that up.

Still curious ...
Do you think Christians and Jews shouldn't debate the divinity (or not) of Jesus? The scriptural basis for Christians' and Messianic Jews' belief in this comes from the OT, and so discussion would probably involve quoting and referencing. I hope it would be fair theological debate, rather than malicious and deliberate undermining of one another -- what do you think?

I guess, either way, someone whose faith is strong enough won't change beliefs, whatever they are, so debating only has limited use anyway.

[novium]

[s]James wrote on 16:44, 18th Jan 2005:
[s]exnihilo wrote on 12:40, 18th Jan 2005:[i]
If the quoting ... is crass.

(Saving space)


Thanks for clearing that up.

Still curious ...
Do you think Christians and Jews shouldn't debate the divinity (or not) of Jesus? The scriptural basis for Christians' and Messianic Jews' belief in this comes from the OT, and so discussion would probably involve quoting and referencing. I hope it would be fair theological debate, rather than malicious and deliberate undermining of one another -- what do you think?

I guess, either way, someone whose faith is strong enough won't change beliefs, whatever they are, so debating only has limited use anyway.
[/i]


I think it mostly would be a waste of time.

I think the best thing is to stick to that old joke about "when the messiah comes, we'll ask him if anything looks familiar"

[Paul]

[s]LonelyPilgrim wrote on 05:21, 18th Jan 2005:
Furthermore, God did not write the Bible. Even if He did, in the original, the number of translations it has been through would provide a great number of possibilities for corruption of His word. Unless of course you are suggesting that translators such as Martin Luther were an incarnation of God. That is laughable. But considering that, there are no grounds to dismiss exnihilo's translation as incorrect, and automatically assume that whichever version you happen to be reading is correct.


Firstly, any translation should be based on the text that has been handed down to us in the original languages – the Hebrew tenach, and the Greek New Testament.

The Hebrew text is generally agreed amongst all authorities to be accurate.

However, with the Greek text, there is a problem. In 1881 Westoctt and Hort published a revised Greek text which had somewhere between 5,000 and 6,000 changes from what had become generally accepted as the Textus Receptus (Received Text). So today, one has to decide which of the Greek text’s (or an eclectic text of one’s own) is correct.

LonelyPilgirm, I studied the ‘Version Question’ for a good two years, and can tell you that it is a very dangerous thing to “automatically assume that whichever version you happen to be reading is correct”.

As quoted earlier, “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.” – Psalm12:6, but not everything which claims to be the word of God is the word of God!

However, the above statement gives us a standard to use in determining whether the claim to be the word of God is true.

Let’s just take one example to demonstrate an impurity. In most modern versions, Mark 1:2 has something along the lines, “It is written in Isaiah the prophet …”. However, this is not true, as the following quotation is taken from both Malachi 3:1 and Isaiah 40:3. The AV (or KJV) has: “As it is written in the prophets, …”, which is an accurate translation of the Greek in the Textus Receptus and also happens to be true. On this point alone, we can reject nearly all modern versions as being “impure”.

We also have other marks – for example, are there additions, or subtractions in one version or the other? Note that there are serious consequences for tampering with the word of God.

“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it[b/], that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” – Deuteronomy 4:2

“[b]Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” – Proverbs 30:6

This is what has happened in Mark 1:2 already mentioned, and for another case see “An incorrect Translation” at: http://www.aapi.co.uk/mansbacher/incorr ... lation.htm .


“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” – Revelation 22:18-19

Examples of some 200 changes to modern versions can be seen at http://www.biblebelievers.com/New_Eye_Opener.html

So you are right in saying that corruptions occur, but God has still left us with his pure word today. And if you ask Him, God will give it to you.

“Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.” – Matthew 7:7-8

[Paul]

[s]exnihilo wrote on 15:12, 18th Jan 2005:
Christians would do well to listen to the Talmud's message and not try to convert anyone.

Christians are best advised to obey Scripture, for Jews are not to be excluded. On the contrary. They are to be approached first of all, as Jesus Christ did. When he was on the earth, he sent his disciples to the Jews first.

“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” – Matthew 15:24

However, read this passage for yourself, for it is an account of the remarkable faith of a Gentile woman, whose request Jesus Christ granted.

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 10:5-6

Only after he rose from the dead did he send his disciples to the Gentiles as well:

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” – Matthew 28:18-20

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” – Mark 16:15

“… and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” – Acts 1:8

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” – Romans 1:16

[Paul]

[s]exnihilo wrote on 15:12, 18th Jan 2005:
If your concept of Christ is correct, he's a forgiving 'God' and whether I acknowledge him or not I can still go to Heaven if I lead a good life.

This is a fallacy, albeit a common one. One can not get into heaven by living a good life for, “… we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;” – Isaiah 64:6.

That is God’s view of our righteousness. Further, we are all sinners:

“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” – Psalm 14:2-3

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” – Romans 3:23
The punishment for unrepentant sinners is death, and being cast into the Lake of Fire on Judgment Day.

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.” – Revelation 20:11-14

Notice that all these were judged by there works, and were all cast into the Lake of Fire.

Those who repent have a different experience when Christ returns:

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.” – Revelation 20:4-6

God has made a way of escape. Salvation is a gift of God, and is by grace through Faith:

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” – Romans 6:23

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” – Ephesians 2:8-9


Again we are told, “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.” – Romans 1:17, quoting Habbakuk 2:4. This is repeated again in Galatians 3:11 and Hebrews 10:38.



[s]exnihilo wrote on 15:12, 18th Jan 2005:
You say mine is incorrect because it does not agree with your preconceived notions - and, yet, mine is clearly the more 'christian' translation as it promotes tolerance and understanding. Doubtless, in your world view, I'm twice damned for being both Jewish and gay?[[i]

God knows that we are sinners, and he has made the way of salvation for those who will accept it – and this includes homosexuals who repent.. However, his wrath remains on those who will not believe, and he is angry with them every day:

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,” [[i]Explanation: This means homosexuals, as has been explained in a previous post], “Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” – I Corinthians 6:9-10

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. … He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” - John 3:16-19 & 36

“God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.” – Psalm 7:11

[Paul]

[s]exnihilo wrote on 15:12, 18th Jan 2005:[i]
Next, of the line of David? How?[[i]

The lineage is given in two Gospels, once for Joseph, the husband of Mary, even though he was not the biological father of Jesus Christ, and once for Mary. Remember that at the time the Temple was still in existence, and so were the genealogical records.

The passages are too lengthy to repeat here, but you can read them on the internet at

http://www.kingjamesbible.com/B40C001.htm

and:

http://www.kingjamesbible.com/B42C003.htm

[Paul]

[s]exnihilo wrote on 15:12, 18th Jan 2005:
I quote from the great Rabbi Hillel once more, though I could pick a dozen like it from the Talmud (written in honour of a vengeful God who seems far more forgiving than [i]your Christian one):

That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it.
[/i]



“Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” – Matthew 22:35-40

[Paul]

[s]James wrote on 16:44, 18th Jan 2005:
Still curious ...
Do you think Christians and Jews shouldn't debate the divinity (or not) of Jesus? The scriptural basis for Christians' and Messianic Jews' belief in this comes from the OT, and so discussion would probably involve quoting and referencing. I hope it would be fair theological debate, rather than malicious and deliberate undermining of one another -- what do you think?{]i]

I would be happy to participate. Do you want to start a new thread?

[s]James wrote on 16:44, 18th Jan 2005:[i]
I guess, either way, someone whose faith is strong enough won't change beliefs, whatever they are, so debating only has limited use anyway.


"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." - James 5:19-20

Is that not a good enough reason?

[exnihilo]

Actually, no, I don't. You've posted once more at enormous length but ignored 90% of what I said and you cling to the idea thet by hurling huge amounts of the new testament (which is a cobbled together butchery of a book) at me you'll beat me into submission. You won't. The debate is pointless, I can't convince you and would never ever try to and you can't convince me even if you expended your last breath on it. Your Christ is a false God to me and your worship of him and his image are an affront to the Law. Your new testament is a tissue of later works produced to justify an already held position that are largely products of the thinking of their time - not the revealed wisdom of God.

And, for what it's worth, when I read the Torah, I do so in Hebrew, not in translation - and a man's own interpretation of what is in the Torah is always valid. No sensible discussion can be had if your recourse, however, is always "well the Bible says such and such, and you can't argue so nyeh" which is effectively all your posts are.

Finally, repent of being homosexual? How dare you?

[Rob Hearn]

Yes Paul, I wasn't going to to post again, but I can't resist. This isn't a contribution to the debate, just the comment: You are a complete fucking idiot, unnervingly zealous to the point of mental illness, and it's for people like you that I reserve my greatest contempt. Since, by suggesting that homosexuals should repent, you've blasmphemed against my ethical code, I have no qualms about blaspheming yours with my own hypothesis. Personally, I think that Mary took many partners, and lied about it to conceal the fact to Joseph. No biological father has ever been suggested because the sheer number of men she had sex with confuses paternity. Joseph was an idiot, and everybody in the christian community is credulous, which is why none of them have ever twigged the more obvious truth. Christ was crucified because he behaved immorally. The exact nature of his crime isn't clear, but it could be a number of things - theft, murder, rape. He certainly didn't die for my sins because, guess what, I wasn't even born then.

You like?

[LonelyPilgrim]

The part of me that could find humour in my own death throes finds it ironic that you happen to choose the moniker of my least favorite apostle. Then again, it is rather fitting. You've managed to unite Rob, exnihilo, and myself in utter contempt for your shameless and overbearing proselytizing. Something that only days ago I would have thought impossible.

The length of your posts and the repetitiousness of them displays a total lack of understanding for the etiquette of a forum. I don't care about the validity of your message, if you can not present it without being rude, you are not a worthy messenger. Christ was a teacher of compassion and mercy, not of arrogant words and rudeness.

So... you came, you preached. Neither Rob nor exnihilo feel like converting, and with your style, I don't blame them, and I'm already a Christian, so preaching to me is like preaching to the choir, and if you tried it in person I'd probably do something very un-Christian-like to you with a piece of furniture. I believe this is the part where you shake the dust from your feet and walk on, yes? Please do not let us stop you.

[hr]---Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.--- Abraham Lincoln

[Paul]

Sorry about the faulty tags in two earlier posts, and one link with a comma at the end which needs removal, but being a guest I am unable to edit the posts.

[s]exnihilo wrote on 03:19, 19th Jan 2005:
The debate is pointless, I can't convince you and would never ever try to and you can't convince me even if you expended your last breath on it. Your Christ is a false God to me and your worship of him and his image are an affront to the Law.

You are right! - I could not convince you, nor anyone else, by mere argument - "not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect" - but God will use the seed of his Word for his purpose, either to create a new spiritual person through the new birth, or harden the receiver (see Moses with Pharoah for example, - Exoduse 8:32 "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.", with John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.", and II Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

[s]exnihilo wrote on 03:19, 19th Jan 2005:
Your Christ is a false God to me and your worship of him and his image are an affront to the Law.

If I worshipped an image of Christ as the Roman Catholics do, I would be an idolater, and you would be right, for:

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.” – Exodus 20:4-6

However, I worship Christ in spirit and in truth, as God requires:

“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” – John 4:21-24

[s]exnihilo wrote on 03:19, 19th Jan 2005:
And, for what it's worth, when I read the Torah, I do so in Hebrew, not in translation

Notihng wrong with that!

[s]exnihilo wrote on 03:19, 19th Jan 2005:
- and a man's own interpretation of what is in the Torah is always valid.

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." – Proverbs 3:5

[s]exnihilo wrote on 03:19, 19th Jan 2005:
Finally, repent of being homosexual? How dare you?

God calls on all, everywhere to repent of their sin, for all are sinners.

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” – Romans 3:23

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.” – Acts 17:30

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." – I Corinthians 6:9-10

[Paul]

[s]Rob Hearn wrote on 06:56, 19th Jan 2005:
snipped
You like?


Whether I like it or not is of no relevance - but whether God likes it. Jesus said,

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." - Matthew 12:36-37

[exnihilo]

I don't believe it! Once again you manage to ignore or misinterpret almost everything that was said by others. Absolutely staggering.

Do you earnestly believe that this is why God gave you a brain? Do you think He actually wants slavish drones, spouting drivel day and night? Or do you think he maybe intended you to use it and to think a little about things?