War With Iraq

[Guest]

Unfortunately there are innocent casualties in every war, its inevitable. It’s a horrible thing, but war is a horrible thing. I think that the UN does go as far as they possibly can to avoid such casualties, but again sometimes I can see it being very difficult. Add in the fact that a lot of these 3rd world regimes strategically place their main military facilities under or around civilian targets makes it that much worse.

It really seems to be the lesser evil. It sounds like a horrible thing, but I would rather have his people suffer in an invasion than seeing some kind of biological weapon or even nuclear go off in the middle of London 6 months from now.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

The problem is of course that it's impossible to truly and accurately judge the whole cost/benefit of the situation. No doubt hindsight will be the most effective analytical tool - maybe someone can see what our fickle friend Nostradamus says *before* something goes off?

Didn't think so.

[Guest]

[s][b]Unregisted User wrote on 13:39,

We are the UN.

My, my I think that's telling. Doesn't that just sum up American foreign policy in a nutshell? If the US wants to do something, it just goes right ahead,only America's opinion matters, international law be dammned. The UN is supposed to be a forum where all nations can come together and discuss issues peacefully on an equal footing, not a USA fanclub that jumps to attention just because George Bush snaps his fingers. You are NOT the UN, you are but one state and such arrogance astounds me.

I find it extremely amusing in a gallows humour type way that America holds itself up as the defender of democracy when IMO the rogue state we should be most worried about is the USA:

-It is the only country ever to have deployed nuclear weapons in a combat situation.

-America has bombed 18 countries since WWII.

-It has been involved in many undemocratic actions including: *engineering the coup that caused the downfall of the democratically elected government of Chile.
*Illegally invading Haiti and toppling the democratically elected government.
(I could name more)

-Dictators seem to be fine with the USA so long as they toe the line. Saddam used to be a 'good guy' because he was against Iran. Never forget who armed Iraq in the first place. Also, Gadaffi doesn't seem to be quite the power-mad dictator he was in the past since he's begun helping out America. Also, the unelected government in Saudi Arabia is supported by America. Why democracy for some and not for others? This blatant hypocrisy is incredible.

-Another thing we shouldn't forget is who placed the Taliban in power, trained them and encouraged them to fight the Jihad in the first place. That's right folks, the USA. The Taliban's extremism and attitudes towards women didn't seem to matter so long as they were fighting the Russians.

-There is a country in the middle East that has invaded every one of its immediate neighbours and some of its indirect neigbours,it has been in violation of UN resolutions for 35 years, it has huge stores of weapons of mass destruction, has killed thousands of civillians (including refugees), executed suspected terrorists without trial, indulges in Ethnic cleansing (by destroying homes, imposing curfews, preventing said ethnicity from gaining employment), it's head of state is a suspected war criminal and it has a racist immigration policy. Does America leap to comdemn this country? No. In fact, they effectively fund and support it politically because it's called Israel and is a handy little colony of Americana in the Middle East.

[Guest]

You are quick to pass judgement upon the US. But don't forget that our government has backed and in some cases partaken in some of the instances that you mentioned.

[The_Farwall]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 19:42, 7th Oct 2002:
You are quick to pass judgement upon the US. But don't forget that our government has backed and in some cases partaken in some of the instances that you mentioned.


And they where also wrong to do so.

[hr]
I live my life head first, straight down
Waiting for the day when I hit the ground.
I don't care where, I don't care when
I just hope I'll feel right again.

[Guest]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 19:42, 7th Oct 2002:
You are quick to pass judgement upon the US. But don't forget that our government has backed and in some cases partaken in some of the instances that you mentioned.


You're right of course and I don't agree with that either.

::Tony wags his tail and begs for another Dubya Choccie Drop::

[Stellar]

The main objection I have with the USA is that they don't do anything until they are attacked personally. Before September 11th happened, the IRA recieved funding from the US government. Now they are a somewhat *cough* terrorist organisation, are they not? Shades of WWII methinks...

[Tammii]

The British forces are THE best in the world....you should be proud of them.....

[jeng]

Shades of WWII methinks...

you are exactly right there. america only got involved with WWII after they had bn attacked directly. now after the 9/11 attack bush has gone power mad with this war on terrorism and believes everyone else should jump in with him (and tony has). i know 9/11 was a terrible tragedy but i think one of the main reasons it was such a shock was because americans aren't used to this kind of opposition to their country.

[Homer]

What happened on the ninth of November?

[jeng]

9/11 is how the americans write sep 11th- they put the month b4 the day- dont ask why but they do...

[The_Farwall]

[s]homer wrote on 22:00, 9th Oct 2002:
What happened on the ninth of November?


My next door neighbour, Greg, was born on that day in 1980. Two days later I was born in the hospitatl room next to the one he had been born in. 7 years later we moved into houses next to each other. Spooky, eh?

[hr]
I live my life head first, straight down
Waiting for the day when I hit the ground.
I don't care where, I don't care when
I just hope I'll feel right again.

[Elvis]

There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein is a prize git and that the world would be safer without it.

But for all the talk of preventing another 9/11 disaster and liberating an oppressed country from it's awful dictator, there remains one thing that is as important in this war as anything else: OIL.

Take Afghanistan, for instance. A lot of hype was made about the destruction of the Taliban and the success of the operation. But all that has really happened is that a capital the size of Dundee has been liberated, with the rest of the country split into factions of warlords. Oh, and strangely enough, an enormous American-built oil pipeline worth billions is in construction, running through the heart of the country. Remember that during the 80s the U.S. helped to arm the Taliban to bolster the fight against the Soviet incursions into Afghanistan and surrounding territories... One reason they fell out was that the Taliban denied the right to construction of a certain oil pipeline.

There's a hell of a lot of oil in Iraq. There's also a hell of a lot of energy corporation money floating around the Bush administration.

[Guest]

The US isn't use to this type of opposition? Hmm.. 2 planes were flown into US landmarks killing thousands of innocent people. I would say the US isn’t use to that type of terrorism. The US was attacked and thousands of innocent people were killed. Don’t you think organizations supporting this terrorist group should be held accountable?

Yes there is a lot of oil in Iraq, but it’s not the only country in the world that can supply it. Saying that the major reason for invading Afghanistan and Iraq for oil would be extremely naive. If oil was the main motivation behind the US actions, half of the middle east would be US states by now.

Lets not forget one major fact here, whether you agree with it or not, Blair has chosen to back the US efforts to remove Saddam. What that means to us is that we are enemies in the eyes of Saddam. He is currently developing missiles that could easily reach us and deliver biological weapons or even worse nuclear, which he is also currently trying to develop. Should we sit back and wait for this to happen and be reactive? Or would it make more sense to prevent such capabilities and be proactive? I for one would rather see his regime topple and these weapon plants destroyed, whether it be done by diplomatic terms or if need be by force.

[Greebo]

http://www.felbers.net/blogger.html#82781097

[splittter]

that Bush is a decent guy, completely straight ... he always hated those Taliban ... I mean they supported terrorist groups who had attacked america as far back as 93 ... and bush always hated terrorists

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n922/a09.html

[The Truth]

Despite Bush's 'reasoning' that Saddam should be unseated due to the presence of blah-blah weapons, does no-one find it a tad worrying that America's oil reserves are due to run out in 10 years, and Bush proposes replacing Saddam with Gen. Tommy Franks (a la post-WW2 Japan) as an "intermediate" figurehead?

Empire by any other name would smell as sweet...

[Emma]

It's someone with my name! Not only does he have the same name as me, but he's actually quite cool! I've never met someone with the same name as me who was remotely worth speaking to, apart from my uncle and he's dead.
Wow!

Incidentally, while Saddam was cheerfully gassing Kurds in 1983, the Reagan administration sent out a nice emissary to shake hands and maintain good relations. He opened the gateway for subsequent massive arms sales to Saddam's government by the UK and US. His name? Donald Rumsfeld.

[Guest]

Ok people, you need to learn some facts about oil, where the US imports it and what reserves are typically used for. Just because the oil reserve is do to run out in 10 years doesn’t mean that the US only has 10 years left of oil left they can drill. The reserve is oil that had been drilled and put aside in safe storage in case of emergency use. The following link explains when and how they can be used.

http://www.fe.doe.gov/spr/spr_facts.shtml

During 2001, The US provided about 50% of its oil domestically. The other 50% was imported from various countries. About 48 percent of U.S. crude oil imports came from the Western Hemisphere (19 percent from South America, 15 percent from Mexico, and 14 percent from Canada), while 30 percent came from the Persian Gulf region (18 percent from Saudi Arabia, 9 percent from Iraq, and 3 percent from Kuwait).

The US imports only 9 % of its oil from Iraq… If the US was so oil motiviated don’t you think they would have invaded Saudi Arabia or Mexico by now?

Try focusing on Sadams violent past and his motivation to develop weapons of mass destruction, that will soon be able to reach us.

[Guest]

Emma,

And what does this have to do with ousting Sadam because he is trying to develop weapons of mass destruction?
Massive arms sales? oh guns.. they hardly do the same damage as a nuclear weapon.

This perfect world that you want to live in doesn't exist.