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Re:

Postby Preacher's Kid on Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:45 pm

I urge the weeping posters on this thread to read
www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com

(yes, it actually exists)

damn good reasoning.
All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie.
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Re:

Postby Thalia on Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:26 pm

Okay, now that i've finished reading the book, i'll add some more. I kind of like the idea that dumbledore knew about the unbreakable vow and was sacrificing himself to save malfoy and snape. If it does turn out like that then Rowling's turned Snape into a wonderfully tragic character - i mean he would have sacrificed his own reputation, and most likely his life since none of the good guys trust him anymore, for the sake of defeating voldemort and helping dumbledore - it would be even more tragic if he dies in the next book without anyone but the reader ever knowing the truth.
And some of the comments he makes to harry at the end don't seem as much like slagging as hints - like when he tells harry that his curses'll keep being deflected until he learns to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed. I mean if he can't beat snape what chance does he have against voldemort? And maybe that's what snape was thinking too which would explain why he was so angry - dumbledore had basically placed their whole future on this boy who was failing miserably at fighting any of them.

But then again, maybe i'm just as delusional as all those people out there hoping for Dumbledore and Sirius to pop out of the woodwork ;-)

[hr]

[s]A Question
A voice said, Look me in the stars
And tell me truly, men of earth,
If all the soul-and-body scars
Were not too much to pay for birth.
---Robert Frost[/s]
"This is my story. It'll go the way I want, or I'll end it here"
--Final Fantasy X
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Re:

Postby Han on Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:51 pm

Someone (apologies, I forget who...) suggested that Dumbledore might have a horcrux somewhere....


....so we're assuming DD has killed someone?

interesting...
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Re:

Postby Thalia on Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:31 pm

Well they were in a state of war when voldemort had power before, it's possible that he killed a death eater at some point - but you'd think it would've been mentioned by someone somewhere so i don't think it's likely. Besides, i don't think there's any reason for Dumbledore to be alive in the next book - he fulfilled his role as mentor and now it's the point in the book where Harry has to get things done without someone watching over his shoulder.

And if he happens to find out along the way that snape isn't really evil and has sacrificed a hell of a lot more than harry ever will for the cause then all the better ;-)


[hr]

[s]A Question
A voice said, Look me in the stars
And tell me truly, men of earth,
If all the soul-and-body scars
Were not too much to pay for birth.
---Robert Frost[/s]
"This is my story. It'll go the way I want, or I'll end it here"
--Final Fantasy X
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Re:

Postby novium on Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:59 am

what you are all forgetting is if you do a horcrux thingy, you turn evil.
Quoting Han from 20:51, 28th Jul 2005
Someone (apologies, I forget who...) suggested that Dumbledore might have a horcrux somewhere....


....so we're assuming DD has killed someone?

interesting...


[hr]

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Re:

Postby ninman on Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:24 am

I think that we're analysing this a little too much. I think though that if Dumbledore really let himself die he wouldn't have done it without a plan. I mean he always knows exactly what's going on in the school all the time. I believe that Dumbledore definately had a plan, and if Snape was really going to betray him then Dumbledore would've known about it.

I mean in TCOS (The Chamber of Secrets), he could see Harry even though he was using the invisibility cloak. So while DD may be dead he would definately have had a plan, it's just not in his character to let himself die needlessly.
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Re:

Postby Han on Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:46 pm

Not necessarily - as far as I understand it, it takes an act of evil - killing someone, to create a horcrux. Thus the likelihood is that you are evil if you create a horcrux. BUT I also think it would only *make* you evil if you did it multiple times and fractured your soul too much.


If that makes any sense...



Quoting novium from 06:59, 29th Jul 2005
what you are all forgetting is if you do a horcrux thingy, you turn evil.
Quoting Han from 20:51, 28th Jul 2005
Someone (apologies, I forget who...) suggested that Dumbledore might have a horcrux somewhere....


....so we're assuming DD has killed someone?

interesting...


[hr]

:( I have no witty signature.
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Re:

Postby novium on Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:58 pm

maybe so, but it's the ripping it out of you that is evil evil evil. I mean, they only stressed about a thousand times that it was extremely evil magic, and that it would make you inhuman, etc.
Quoting Han from 23:46, 30th Jul 2005
Not necessarily - as far as I understand it, it takes an act of evil - killing someone, to create a horcrux. Thus the likelihood is that you are evil if you create a horcrux. BUT I also think it would only *make* you evil if you did it multiple times and fractured your soul too much.


If that makes any sense...



Quoting novium from 06:59, 29th Jul 2005
what you are all forgetting is if you do a horcrux thingy, you turn evil.
Quoting Han from 20:51, 28th Jul 2005
Someone (apologies, I forget who...) suggested that Dumbledore might have a horcrux somewhere....


....so we're assuming DD has killed someone?

interesting...


[hr]

:( I have no witty signature.


[hr]

:( I have no witty signature.
Neither the storms of crisis, nor the breezes of ambition could ever divert him, either by hope or by fear, from the course that he had chosen
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Re:

Postby Rennie on Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:39 pm

Isn't this a kids book? Or have I missed the point.
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Re:

Postby Mlle Daaé on Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:56 pm

Quoting Rennie from 19:39, 31st Jul 2005
Isn't this a kids book? Or have I missed the point.


JK writes for a nonspecified age group, which happens to be mostly children. HOWEVER, if you bothered to read the novels, it would be immediately clear that there are increasingly more mature themes that, in my opinion, are not suitable for the majority of "children" at which the books are supposedly aimed. Deaths of beloved characters, murders upon more murders, open warfare, racism and prejudice, even the growing romantic notions: sorry, but JK's works are most certainly not "kids' books".

(apologies, rant over)
I may be a pretty sad case but I don't write jokes in base 13
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Re:

Postby Caroline on Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:11 pm

I am also for the 'snape not really evil' theories and i'll be gutted if it turns out that he is! I agree with all of the points supporting this, so I'm not going to repeat them, but i'd just like to add, doesn't it seen quite unlikely that Dumbledore would plead for his life? In Book one, he makes it quite clear that he doesn't fear death. It does seem more Dumbledore-esque to plead for someone to do what he thinks it the right thing (even if it does result in his death) than beg for his life?

Also, the argument that Snape had about Dumbledore asking too much of him, it doesn't seem like Snape to want to cop out of something, unless of course, it was something like killing Dumbledore?

Or maybe I'm just clutching at straws!
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Re:

Postby Maggie on Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:20 pm

Quoting ninman from 11:56, 28th Jul 2005
I know what one of the horcruxes is, and I'm just curious to know if anyone else has figured it out. I'll give you a clue, it's something that is in Dumbledore's office.



Well, aren't you going to tell us what it is??? Dumbledore said he was pretty certain that Gryffindor's sword wasn't one of them (I think he said it "remains safe").
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Re:

Postby Guest on Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:21 pm

Not to sound too desperate or anything, but does anyone know when the final book is coming out?
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Re:

Postby ninman on Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:22 pm

Not necessarily. Harry kept repeating that he was looking for something from either Gryffindor or Ravenclaw. So that doesn't rule out the Gryffindor Sword in DD's office. But maybe I'm wrong, but there has been no mention of something from Ravenclaw in any of the other books, which only leaves the Gryffindor sword.


Quoting Maggie from 17:18, 31st Jul 2005
Quoting ninman from 11:56, 28th Jul 2005
I know what one of the horcruxes is, and I'm just curious to know if anyone else has figured it out. I'll give you a clue, it's something that is in Dumbledore's office.



Well, aren't you going to tell us what it is??? Dumbledore said he was pretty certain that Gryffindor's sword wasn't one of them (I think he said it "remains safe").
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Re:

Postby Lyra on Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:19 am

RAB is probably Regulus Black, therefore there was probably a Horcrux in Grimmaud Place.

I say was, because Mundungus Fletcher has probably flogged it by now. Making Harry's task much more interesting, as he is forced to rake through second hand shops in an attempt to find various random bits of Voldemorts soul.
The Man With No Name - Danger fits him like a tight black glove
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Re:

Postby Guest on Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:04 am

I know what one of the horcruxes is, and I'm just curious to know if anyone else has figured it out. I'll give you a clue, it's something that is in Dumbledore's office.

the sorting hat?.

According to the sorting hat’s song in goblet of fire, it was originally Gryffindor’s…
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Re:

Postby Thalia on Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:52 pm

But Dumbledore seemed pretty sure that voldemort hadn't had the chance to get to anything within hogwarts. I personally think the books have explored hogwarts enough - i think it's good that harry's finally leaving the place and you get to see whether he can cope with live without half a dozen teachers watching his every move and protective spells all around him :-)

[hr]

[s]A Question
A voice said, Look me in the stars
And tell me truly, men of earth,
If all the soul-and-body scars
Were not too much to pay for birth.
---Robert Frost[/s]
"This is my story. It'll go the way I want, or I'll end it here"
--Final Fantasy X
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Re:

Postby meh on Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:17 pm

Having only just read the book yesterday, you'll have to forgive me if all of this has already been circulating on the internet for about a month but nevertheless, my 2 cents.

Firstly, not that I'm positing this as a viable theory but wouldn't a Horcrux be near-impossible to destroy were it contained within something that, in itself, was essentially indestructible/deathless (or at the very least 'resurrectable')? Like, for example, a phoenix. Fawkes' feathers are, after all, the cores of both Harry and Voldemort's wands so there's at least a connection to predicate the assumption on. I'd be very surprised if this were actually the case however, since Dumblodore has already stressed the inadvisability of storing a Horcrux inside an animal (admittedly Nagini, as a snake, is considerably more of a liability) and there's no evidence to support Voldemort having any access to Fawkes at any prior point in time.

I'm likewise skeptical about the Horcrux being Harry, what with Voldemort having tried to kill him on so many previous occasions. Surely that would be a little counter-productive? I don't think it could've happened at the end of Goblet of Fire either, since Voldemort would presumably have made all 7 Horcruxes (or 6, if we're discounting the part of his soul still inside his body) well in advance of that encounter. The only evidence I can think to support that particular argument would be if it had happened the night Voldemort killed Harry's parents. Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort reserved the creation of a Horcrux for very significant murders (I forget the actual phrasing). Perhaps he intended to create the 7th and final Horcrux after killing Harry and averting the prophecy but, when it backfired so badly, was forced to store it inside the nearest object (i.e. Harry himself) out of sheer desperation. If nothing else, it would allow J.K. to finish the books on a very noble, "Harry made the ultimate sacrifice-blah-blah-blah" note...

I'm more intrigued by the person who thought that one of the Horcruxes was actually inside Dumbledore. It would explain why he allowed himself to be killed so easily at the end of the book and would partially vindicate Rowling of having Snape turn out to be such an unambiguous, two-dimensional villain. I think the "dumbledoreisnotdead" site that someone linked to before presents a good case for Snape having acted on Dumbledore's orders but I'm less willing to believe that Dumbledore isn't in fact dead since that would just as much of an awful cop-out as having Snape turn out to be working for Voldemort all along.
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Re:

Postby Bitterandtwisted on Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:54 am

http://www.thealmightyguru.com/reviews/ ... House.html

What house do you belong to?

Gryffindor - 14
Hufflepuff - 10
Ravenclaw - 9
Slytherin - 9

[hr]

Life is as tedious as a twice told tale
Vexing the dull ear of a drowsy man.
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Re:

Postby Lyeta on Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:14 am

Couldnt the Horcrux have been the liquid/poison/whatever that DD drank in the cave? I mean why was he so insistent that harry made him drink it all? Surely if it was just a question of getting rid of the liquid they could have used the goblet and scooped it out and poured it on the ground or something, not drunk it. I assume drinking it made DD a Horcrux (and he knew this - he seemed to know a lot about the cave) hence he allowed Snape to kill him. I mean he "froze" Harry - surely he could have just left him under his invisibility cloak. He obviously didnt want Harry interfering and defending him (or trying to). Ah well just ideas... it would be a dissapointment if Snape did just turn out to be evil. Looking forwards to the next book :)
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