Quoting ezra from 15:41, 23rd Nov 2005
Bananaman: the problem is that your post didn't mean what you intended.
'I wish the most deserving cases were not automatically those who got the most press' means 'I wish that the most deserving cases . . . didn't get the most press'
c.f.
'I wish the fastest cars were not automatically those which got the most advertising'
Now it couldn't be that advertising makes cars go fast, or that press coverage makes cases deserving.
Quoting ezra from 15:54, 23rd Nov 2005
no, Bitterandtwisted, that's not an answer
if ethical disagreement is just a matter of people discussing their opinions, then there really is no disagreement; it's just people expressing opinions. this simply doesn't match the phenomena. if i claim that killing Jews is wrong, and you claim that it's OK, that's a significant, and substantive, disagreement. it's not just a matter of me saying 'I don't like genocide'.
you failed entirely to address the issue of ethical deliberation. when i sit down and think about various issues, and try to work out, for instance, whether abortion is morally wrong, whether schools should be allowed - or told - to forbid wearing of headscarves, etc., then it seems as if I'm trying to arrive at some kind of answer. whatever I'm doing, I'm not just stating my own opinions; I'm engaging in a process which can change them. What is the nature of that process?
Quoting ezra from 02:26, 23rd Nov 2005
suigeneris:I agree it's terribly sad at tea-time to hear that Mbegwe and her ludicrous number of children have to walk for five hours a day to find water and have to live on $0.12 per day, but I really don't see how her situation is in any way of my making, or how her selfless and dignified slog through such an arduous life has benefit to anyone.
You bigoted, racist, arrogant, selfish, benighted cunt. Sorry for resorting to abuse, but that doesn't even merit a response.
tell me where absolute morality may be found
May I ask again - Are you seriously contending that it is in some way aberrant to care more (that is, more than none) for kith and kin than for people whose very existence is literally outwith our own notice?
Quoting ezra from 15:06, 22nd Nov 2005
steveo:I don't care about saving lives on the other side of the world when people in my county are dying
Why? Are the lives of people in this country worth more than the lives of people on the other side of the world? Is it better to save one person in Britain or twenty people in Pakistan?
Quoting ezra from 16:43, 23rd Nov 2005
But I take issue with people who simply don't give a shit about those outside of some arbitrary dividing line, whether it be kin, friends, country, etc. That is unjustifiable, and unconscionable.
Quoting ezra from 16:43, 23rd Nov 2005tell me where absolute morality may be found
Kant, 'Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals'
provides the basic idea. I'm working up from it. I won't quote the entire book; if you're genuinely interested, read it.
Quoting Cain from 16:55, 23rd Nov 2005
Is it wrong of me to miss Paul? He also had principles, ethics and somesuch that were also categorical. He invoked them at every opportunity too...
[hr]
Quoting ezra from 16:43, 23rd Nov 2005tell me where absolute morality may be found
Kant, 'Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals'
provides the basic idea. I'm working up from it. I won't quote the entire book; if you're genuinely interested, read it.
Have you never discussed films?
Have you never discussed books?
Have you never discussed sport?
Have you never discussed music?
Many people discuss these (myself included) and to say that in a debate of opinion "then there really is no disagreement" is really contrary to my experience. It is seldom a case of "I like this", "I don't" and "ok, let's leave it at that". Do you think there are absolute standards for whether Gilbert and Sullivan are humorous/naff and annoying?
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