calling all ID'ers . . .

[ezra]

http://www.vuletic.com/hume/cefec/

i know it's one among many, but it's particularly concise and well structured.

e

[donkey]

Quoting ezra from 19:59, 17th Dec 2005
http://www.vuletic.com/hume/cefec/

i know it's one among many, but it's particularly concise and well structured.

e

It's not bad, but it doesn't really address intelligent design arguments in their best form, which is what is called for. I guess it’s got virtue insofar as it can convince some whackos who haven’t thought about the issues, to refrain from spurting nonsense and to actually engage with science.

I don’t hear well informed theists make many of the claims that this responds to – and the few that they do make “evolution is just a theory” get treatment which they don’t deserve.

I say you gotta apply the principle of charity to theistic claims.

Tangentially, when Plantinga came to do the Gifford lectures last year, he reoffered an argument that’s interesting. Evolution breeds in humans, if anything, a propensity to track reproductive utility. Evolution has no necessary reason to sponsor a drive for truth in humans. Humans look for truth necessarily, as does science. So evolution, on its isn’t the whole truth. There’s a sharp focus on the claims of necessity, which I take it he thinks blocks as appeal to the fact that reproductive utility and truth are coextensive. I doubt many who aren’t theists will buy into the claim that humans track truth necessarily, though. (I use track as in ‘aim at’ not ‘aim at successfully’) And as a disclaimer, I don’t actually remember him laying out the argument, but alluding to it throughout the series.

I’m not a crazy theist, so don’t shout!

[ezra]

um

i. In that case, I'm not familiar with ID arguments in their best form; I'd be grateful if you could give me some pointers, links, or summaries, 'cos it's something that I'm vaguely interested in. [as an aside: I'd forgotten about *that* feature of the eye until yesterday. I found the page interesting on its own merits, anyhow]

ii. re: Plantinga's argument

Evolution has no necessary reason to sponsor a drive for truth in humans.

Well, that's half true, and half completely wrong. On the one hand, it has reason to sponsor a drive for truth insofar as there is an advantage to be conferred by having one's beliefs match the world (it's that famed 'mind-to-world' direction of fit again). On the other, there are many instances where we simply don't seek the truth: for instance, if we had a full set of true beliefs regarding what our friends were saying about us, this would seriously damage our social lives. It's a generalisation, but a true one. There are some cases where having false beliefs actually helps; even deceiving ourselves confers evolutionary benefits, on occasion (how best to deliver a convincing lie? etc.). So I'm not sure that considerations of evolutionary pressures as concerns truth-seeking entail anything at all.

(incidentally, are you a philosophy student? if so, or if not, and if you're still in St Andrews, I'm here until Monday if you - or anyone else - would care for a pint)

[Colin]

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/

[Bitterandtwisted]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4547734.stm

Good.

[hr]

The child is grown
The dream is gone
And I have become
Comfortably numb

[Dave the Explosive Newt]

Quoting bitterandtwisted from 12:09, 21st Dec 2005
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4547734.stm

Good.

I read that in the Guardian (I know) this morning and was pleased. I think "We find that the secular purposes claimed by the board amount to a pretext for the board's real purpose, which was to promote religion" sums it up perfectly.

[hr]

This Sinner account is not affiliated with Will Watson.

[themushroomgod]

Good use of the phrase "breathtaking inanity" by the judge, too!

[hr]

Ooh! A Monkey!

[Greebo]

The full text of that ruling is actually quite entertaining.

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/educ ... 005opn.pdf

[hr]

http://www.greebo.org.uk - Loadsa drunken photos and suchlikes.