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Who is the new association president?

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Re:

Postby Bonnie on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:52 pm

No, see there's no single definition of hack. I beleive the current majority definition is anyone who does anything to do with student representation or services.
"Hack" outside the bubble actually means a journalist or a writer who is only capable of writing one good piece.

It's the dozens of different definitions of hack in St Andrews that makes it confusing. Some use it to mean all union types (don't say student political types-- St Andrews does not have union political types. Go talk to someone from Oxford to find out what student politics are. When was the last time a student asked you to vote for them PURELY based on their party political affiliation?)
Others use it to mean the crap union types. Some use it to mean everyone who, well, does anything, such as direct a play to represent students' needs for the library. Almost everything doen in St Andrews is connected to the Union somehow so really everyone is a hack.

Quoting flossy from 21:58, 22nd Mar 2006
Just because Tom is now involved with the union doesn't make him a hack- there's a big distinction between those who are actively involved in the union (whether they be SRC, SSC, ents etc) and "hacks"; those who seem to see the union as a stepping stone to some future political career and will run for any position just to see their name in lights.

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Re:

Postby Bonnie on Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:58 pm

Quoting Midget from 12:41, 23rd Mar 2006
Not going to quote Seth



Dude-- too far.
Don't be stupid.

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Re:

Postby flarewearer on Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:02 pm

Quoting Bonnie from 14:43, 23rd Mar 2006

Well, not really. As cats, they're not matriculated students of the University.


Well OK then, somoene who is matriculate could run as or with a gatty cat

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Re:

Postby Jos Dad on Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:08 pm

Quoting Bonnie from 14:43, 23rd Mar 2006

Well, not really. As cats, they're not matriculated students of the University.



Are you sure that none is matriculated. When I was at St Andrews a matriculated student by the name of Iain Clottys stood for a number of positions, and he didn't even exist! At least a cat is a corporial entity.
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Re:

Postby Kenny MacDonald on Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:11 pm

Uhm, no live animals allowed during campaigning...




Quoting flarewearer from 15:02, 23rd Mar 2006
Quoting Bonnie from 14:43, 23rd Mar 2006

Well, not really. As cats, they're not matriculated students of the University.


Well OK then, somoene who is matriculate could run as or with a gatty cat

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Re:

Postby butenominee on Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:11 pm

Quoting Lodestone from 13:30, 23rd Mar 2006
Quoting butenominee from 12:58, 23rd Mar 2006
please don't say that lee kane and the other uncontested candidates were elected 'by default', if people didn't want them to be in the positions, they would have voted RON.


No, the majority of people do indeed vote in favour of a candidate by default, and not necessarily because they know they want that candidate. This is shown by the fact that our new Member for Absent Students was elected despite telling people to vote RON.

I don't want to detract from the efforts of the new sabbs, as it's not their fault, and I suspect they deserved to elected, but that's still the way it is.


well in that case perhaps people should actually take some interest in the elections process and the candidates.

ps. i like hacks!
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Re:

Postby Midget on Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Quoting Bonnie from 14:58, 23rd Mar 2006
Quoting Midget from 12:41, 23rd Mar 2006
Not going to quote Seth



Dude-- too far.
Don't be stupid.

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What saying well done to the new President elect. I was only trying to be nice. I wasn't being sarcastic, genuinely Well Done Tom.

As for my language, reclaiming is the way forward, this isn't the nineties words aren't the enemy.

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Re:

Postby flarewearer on Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting Kenny MacDonald from 15:11, 23rd Mar 2006
Uhm, no live animals allowed during campaigning...

Quoting flarewearer from 15:02, 23rd Mar 2006
Quoting Bonnie from 14:43, 23rd Mar 2006

Well, not really. As cats, they're not matriculated students of the University.


Well OK then, somoene who is matriculate could run as or with a gatty cat


The cat need not put in an appearance, it could be strictly metaphorical

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Re:

Postby Grandpa on Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:32 pm

Quoting Kenny MacDonald from 23:57, 22nd Mar 2006
Grandpa, your complaint against the EOC does not stand up to scrutiny.


Actually, in your view it doesn't stand up. However, my view is clear, distinct and simple. A rule was broken therefore a penalty should have been given.

Your view is entirely valid, as is mine, I just think if rules are broken there is no excuse. People should be held accountable for their actions, and by letting someone break the rules it is as good as saying 'don't worry, you broke the rules, bu that's ok'.

Call me old school, but I believe in a fair fight, not a letting off the hook for poor organisation of a campaign team.

It was a poor show and I'll stick to my guns on it. Rules are there NOT to be broken, but to be adhered to.

If Mr D'Ardenne has any idea that he might enter office with this as his opening gambit, then he has a lot to learn about union politics. I'm not saying I'm against him, I'm just saying that starting on the wrong foot is not the best policy - you must accept that there is an air of disgrace surrounding this eection at the moment - and people think that a gross miscarriage has been done.

What people should try to do is argue why it is ok for someone to breeak rules and get away with it - rather that simply proclaiming legitimacy.

It's like the public opinion surorunding America attacking Iraq, although just on a much smaller scale.

If he starts his time like this, what does this say about his potential actions in the future? Will they too be based on getting away scott free with rule breaking???

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Re:

Postby Al on Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:53 pm

As has already been stated on this thread, he was penalised by the EOC. He appealed to the Chair of SAB, and the appeal was successful. That decision had nothing to do with the EOC.
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Re:

Postby exnihilo on Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:55 pm

Indeed. It went through the entirely proper channels, and followed an established pattern we have seen many times before in Association elections. What you're essentially doing now, grandpa, is impugning the impartiality of Anne Kettle, and that's something that really is not in doubt.
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Re:

Postby Monster Sink on Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:58 pm

This is a disgrace, that is a disgrace. Everything's a disgrace!
Including Grandpa
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Re:

Postby Akasha on Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:21 pm

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Re:

Postby Colin on Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:35 pm

Quoting Bonnie from 14:52, 23rd Mar 2006(don't say student political types-- St Andrews does not have union political types. Go talk to someone from Oxford to find out what student politics are. When was the last time a student asked you to vote for them PURELY based on their party political affiliation?)


Be glad that your student politics is largely confined to infighting between the few who care within the union (and in this years case, the shock horror result of an outsider getting in) - I'm now at Queen's in Belfast, where union elections go along the traditional sectarian lines, with Sinn Fien, DUP etc all represented. It is so much more fun playing politics within the bubble of a small Fife town...
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Re:

Postby Guest on Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:48 pm

Quoting Al from 16:53, 23rd Mar 2006
As has already been stated on this thread, he was penalised by the EOC. He appealed to the Chair of SAB, and the appeal was successful. That decision had nothing to do with the EOC.


The reason his appeal was upheld is because the EOC had a big old procedural muck-up. Otherwise, it would have stood. He did break rules.
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Re:

Postby Akasha on Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:02 pm

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Re:

Postby Fawksie on Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:14 pm

Quoting Colin from 17:35, 23rd Mar 2006
Be glad that your student politics is largely confined to infighting between the few who care within the union (and in this years case, the shock horror result of an outsider getting in) - I'm now at Queen's in Belfast, where union elections go along the traditional sectarian lines, with Sinn Fien, DUP etc all represented. It is so much more fun playing politics within the bubble of a small Fife town...

Scary, isn't it? You get used to those kind of parallels though.
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Re:

Postby grousefanatic on Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:34 pm

Quoting butenominee from 14:40, 23rd Mar 2006
well in that case perhaps people should actually take some interest in the elections process and the candidates.

ps. i like hacks!


Of course you do, butenominee, you live with one.

:P

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Re:

Postby Paranoid on Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:29 pm

Whether he broke the rules or not was covered in the appeal. The appeal was successful and therefore there was effectively no DQ in the first place...its null and void and so speculation over what he did/didn't do. What he was told, when, where...is null and void.

He's President now. Unless the student body speaks out publicly against it (or other candidates) then nothing is gonna change!

To be honest, Union Presidents have never made an impact on my uni life, so why its such a big deal over who it is, is beyond me!

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Re:

Postby Harry Giles on Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:55 pm

To be honest, Union Presidents have never made an impact on my uni life, so why its such a big deal over who it is, is beyond me!


You'd be surprised how much the Pres does for you; for most students, who aren't taking an interest, they just don't know. And those of us who are sabbs or Officers, who also do loads for you, have to work with whoever gets elected, so it's really important we have someone we can work with.
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