Raisin Fascism

[Harry Giles]

Raisin weekend must be obnoxious for the local community. I think the disregard for others displayed by many during the night (indeed, during many Friday nights) is appalling. Despite having a fairly loose attitude to private property, I think it's stupid to go around stealing raisin receipts. I think the peer pressure around it is scary, and some of the hazing aspects of it more so.

However, I find the e-mail I received from Residence Admin about police action this morning absolutely terrifying.

The Police will be bringing in reinforcements, many plain clothed.

Any student found drinking or making an unreasonable noise in a public place will be given 1 warning only. it continues, the students will be arrested and taken to the cells. The Police will press charges and reports will be sent to the Procurator Fiscal (PF).

These students will have to make their own way home the following day – some of the Police cells are elsewhere in Fife.

We hope that they will leave the University with a degree. However they may also leave with a criminal record. In this case it is likely to affect their employment prospects.

Following the PF action, the University will follow up with disciplinary procedures for every student charged.

Any student found to be forcing another student to drink against their will, will be disciplined.

Students found with Raisin Receipts will be asked to provide evidence of its ownership. If this cannot be produced, the Police will be charging the student with theft.

If the student is an academic “child” then, even if gifted the receipt, they will be charged with “Reset”.

The Police will be in attendance on the Monday to test all receipts.

The idea that plain clothes officers are going to be lurking on the streets, the idea that every single raisin receipt is going to be "tested" for theft, and that a student without "proof of ownership" could be charged, the idea that the University finds itself enough of a moral arbiter to discipline students already disciplined by the law—all of these are truly revolting?

Has it truly come to this? Is raisin weekend so obnoxious that-- No, have we so descended into legalism in this country that we feel that that vicious degree of legal enforcement on a bunch of rowdy teenagers is considered necessary? Are we that willing to criminalise the young, brash and stupid? At the risk of being yet more histrionic, what's next? Riot cops storming raisin tea parties?

Does anyone feel some form of protest is needed?

[Irish Frank]

I have 2 old computer servers sitting in my room which I was planning to give as raisin receipts. They were sitting next to the dumpster behind the union, in the rain for a week, and are falling apart. Anybody who looks at them will see right away that they are trash. Nevertheless, I'm afraid to give them to my kids now as I can't "provide evidence of ownership" of my trash. It looks like I will have to get my kids plastic bottles instead. How ridiculous is this?

[Irish Frank]

I also hate to think what the poor freshers will think of all this scaremongering. They will be absolutely terrified for all of Raisin. A few casualties and "cancelled local agreements with townspeople" does not justify this nonsense.

[Harry Giles]

A few casualties and "cancelled local agreements with townspeople" does not justify this nonsense.

What terrifies me is that, within this system, this actually feels justifiable.

In St Andrews, students effectively take the role of the priveleged rich and townspeople the role of the working classes, insofar as the former use the latter and dominate the space without regard for the latter. So this kind of police action is really the state being on the right side: it's the unpriveleged seizing hegemony. For me, it's the existence of hegemony itself that's so vile; this kind of thing is inevitably what it leads to

That ambiguity takes this debate right out of the public domain into the realms of subtlety.

And you know what I fear the attitude of many students is? That this is justifiable, because raisin weekend hasd got so obnoxious. In other words, that they want ther liberty to be as stupid as possible, and they want a parent figure to tell them when they've gone too far, to tell them what to do. Ugh.

[Gubbins]

That e-mail is a blatent attempt at scaremongering in an effort to disuade the likely suspects.

Technically any Raisin Receipt that had been stolen and given to a child could count as receiving stolen goods, however I should imagine that Fife's finest would be more concerned with return it to its owner instead. Besides, they are highly unlikely to charge anyone with theft unless the item in question is obviously someone else's (like a shop sign) or has been reported as stolen.

Yes, the police are likely to caution and even arrest people if necessary, but they're not unreasonable cretins and as long as you don't start hurling abuse at them in between verses of Flower of Scotland at the top of your lungs at 3am, they're unlikely to do any more than give you a good telling off.

My raisin receipts to my kids were cargo pallets (light ones, but they still complained!) and a fallen branch. I checked with the owners before I took them and I'd encourage anyone else to do the same. For those of you with old and broken electronics, etc., if there is a problem, then they're going to have to arrest half the university.

By the way, there may still be half an old (very heavy) broken radiator down by the shed facing onto North Street around the back of Chattan, previously stolen with permission but never needed.

[hr]

...but then again, that is only my opinion.

[Thackary]

Taking other people's refuse is still stealing...

The Police are prepared to arrest people - there's a new chap in charge, and he's drafted in staff from other police forces to ensure that things don't get out of hand. Cells in Glenrothes will be taking people, and the threat of a criminal record is real.

Oh, and you'll have to make your own way back from Glenrothes. Fife's public transport isn't the greatest experience, but with a hangover, it's so much worse.

[Steveo]

I can't prove that I own some of my clothes, let alone a rasin receipt.

I say lack of proof isn't a basis for prosecution, unless the item has been reported as stolen.

[hr]

Set your goals way too high so I can laugh when you fail.

[Senethro]

Yay, law and order. This'll stick it to the fucking drunken layabout hippies.

[Harry Giles]

Quoting Steveo from 11:21, 16th Nov 2006
I can't prove that I own some of my clothes, let alone a rasin receipt.

I say lack of proof isn't a basis for prosecution, unless the item has been reported as stolen.

This is a very good point. Anyone threatened should bear this very much in mind.

[harmless loony]

Fife must be one of the safest places to live in the whole world if the highest priority for Fife police is to go down hard on minor transgressions during Raisin Weekend.

I'd love to see what the crime figures for serious crime are in the Fife region and how many of those cases have been solved.

Can someone not charge the police with wasting their own time?

The residents need to chill out a bit - and also bear in mind that if it wasn't for the students many of them would not have jobs or the income that they do get. It's almost like biting the hand that feeds you.

Yes I know a few noisy drunken students at night are a pain in the bottom but if any of these residents would like to come and shadow me as the anti social behaviour officer for my local town and see what serious anti social behaviour is - then they may just be grateful for a couple of noisy Friday nights!!

[KateBush]

Well, I can understand it- people have died as a result of Raisin Weekend fun and games, and every raisin weekend most of the ambulances from across Fife are drafted in to St Andrews 'just in case'- it probably is time that people were a bit more responsible about things. That's not to say you shouldn'thave fun- I think it's more about not going to absolute excess.

[hr]

THe only way to avoid trouble is to BE trouble

[lauraelizabeth]

students have died on raisin weekend?!?

[Steveo]

I also say that those whio live in golass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I live just near the gin house in Southgait Hall, and let me tell you, the people coming out of there on a Friday and Saturday night aren't students, and the police always have to be there. They don't need to sit outside the Union every Friday night.

Locals may well criticise us students, but we have every right to do the same to them.

I encourage you all to report any minor transgression of the law committed by a local resident to the police, however small, petty or trivial.

Let's play their game, and see if they sort their own houses out before lynching us.

[hr]

Set your goals way too high so I can laugh when you fail.

[munchingfoo]

The Police will be bringing in reinforcements, many plain clothed.

The primary role of the police force is crime prevention, not prosecution. Plain clothed officers are used to catch organised criminals who, if deterred one night will simply offend the next. Raisin sunday happens but once a year.

Any student found drinking or making an unreasonable noise in a public place will be given 1 warning only. it continues, the students will be arrested and taken to the cells. The Police will press charges and reports will be sent to the Procurator Fiscal (PF)

Making an unreasonable noise - fair enough. Drinking in a public place - first of all, a public bar IS A PUBLIC PLACE. (idiots) Secondly, isn't drinking in public a local by-law which means that although it carries a fine you wouldn't get a criminal record for it?

These students will have to make their own way home the following day – some of the Police cells are elsewhere in Fife.

We hope that they will leave the University with a degree. However they may also leave with a criminal record. In this case it is likely to affect their employment prospects.

Would I be wrong if I said that was blackmail? Fair enough, say that it is likely to affect their eployment prospects but to proceed it with the get a degree bit is unecessary to the point of intentionally scaring people into behaving in a particular way (blackmail).

Following the PF action, the University will follow up with disciplinary procedures for every student charged.

This is worded funny. Following up could mean that they look at every case to see what happened and act appropriately. It is worded in this way, of course, because for those students who are not in halls the university needs an actual University based reason to do anything to them. (unfortunately if you are in halls it is written into your contract that the hall warden can bring disciplinary action against you FOR WHATEVER REASON he/she sees fit(something I would like to see changed))

Any student found to be forcing another student to drink against their will, will be disciplined.

Hear Hear. but really... who will need to be forced on Sunday?

Students found with Raisin Receipts will be asked to provide evidence of its ownership. If this cannot be produced, the Police will be charging the student with theft.

If the student is an academic “child” then, even if gifted the receipt, they will be charged with “Reset”.

Utter bollocks. It is the responsibiltiy of the criminal justice system to prove theft by the possessor not of the person possessing the item to prove ownership.

The Police will be in attendance on the Monday to test all receipts.

Ah those infamous ownershipometers!!!!


Anyone else find it scanalous that throughout this whole thing the word student has been used which could easily be replaced by person? Surely directing law enforcement into one demographic of society when it applies to all sectors is against the law in itself?

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[nighteyes]

Usually by getting way way too intoxicated and either climbing onto (then falling off) the cliffs at the aquarium or the castle. Or walking into traffic. Thinks like that. Drunken stupidness kills.

Lots of students having to have their stomachs pumped as well I think. I should have had mine pumped when I was a fresher, I got alcohol poisoning.

Quoting lauraelizabeth from 12:32, 16th Nov 2006
students have died on raisin weekend?!?

[hr]

i didnt say i was consistant, just right!

[munchingfoo]

Quoting katebush from 12:28, 16th Nov 2006
Well, I can understand it- people have died as a result of Raisin Weekend fun and games, and every raisin weekend most of the ambulances from across Fife are drafted in to St Andrews 'just in case'- it probably is time that people were a bit more responsible about things. That's not to say you shouldn'thave fun- I think it's more about not going to absolute excess.

The above has nothing to do with students safety. The deaths (of which non have happened for quite some time) would not have been prevented in this manner.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[munchingfoo]

Quoting nighteyes from 12:43, 16th Nov 2006
Usually by getting way way too intoxicated and either climbing onto (then falling off) the cliffs at the aquarium or the castle. Or walking into traffic. Thinks like that. Drunken stupidness kills.

[hr]

i didnt say i was consistant, just right!

I think you, dear, need to change your signature.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[Campbell]

personally i think the email the principle sent round was absolutely hilarious - nothing more than a confession that the uni has no control whatsoever over raisin weekend (except raisin monday), and can make no threats with which to back up their warnings.

It's like they're the geeky kid at school threatening to beat you in, then get their big brother to do it because they actually have no power or influence whatsoever.

morons.

[Bizarre Atheist]

Quoting munchingfoo from 12:43, 16th Nov 2006

The Police will be in attendance on the Monday to test all receipts.

Ah those infamous ownershipometers!!!!

Exactly!

Officer: Is that your broken chair sonny?
Bejant: Yes sir.
Officer: No it isn't. You're nicked. No career for you.
Bejant: But, but-
Officer: You should've thought about your career *before* you came to the best University in Scotland, now, shouldn't you?

[hr]

http://www.race2paris.co.uk
http://standrews.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204763785

[bdw]

Bejant: But, officer, surely the fact that I have attached a tag to the broken chair, setting out where and to whom I will return this item once I get out of the quad indicates that there is no intention on my part to permanently deprive the owner of the chair of his property, thus negating one of the necessary limbs of the statutory theft offence as well as seriously calling into question your use of stop and search powers in this instance?

Officer: Hmm. *slowly reaches for pepper spray*