2% of popn. own half the wealth

[Mr Comedy]

Quoting Senethro from 13:54, 8th Dec 2006
How long you been graduated that you're in a £100k job?

1 year - I'm a headhunter.

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[Sr. AGiC.]

Quoting Mr Comedy from 14:22, 8th Dec 2006

Quoting Senethro from 13:54, 8th Dec 2006
How long you been graduated that you're in a £100k job?

1 year - I'm a headhunter.

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

No offence, but you are definately not earning £165,000 gross PA then.

[Senethro]

Quoting Sr. AGiC. from 14:17, 8th Dec 2006

Quoting Senethro from 14:15, 8th Dec 2006
If this is the case Mr. Comedy, then all I have to say is boo-fuckng-hoo. Honestly.

I would not say that, as this also means annually he will be paying £55,000 in tax which is outragous!

Oh shit, I wonder what hes going to do with his measly £110k. Hes going to starve!

[Sr. AGiC.]

Quoting Senethro from 14:27, 8th Dec 2006

Quoting Sr. AGiC. from 14:17, 8th Dec 2006

Quoting Senethro from 14:15, 8th Dec 2006
If this is the case Mr. Comedy, then all I have to say is boo-fuckng-hoo. Honestly.

I would not say that, as this also means annually he will be paying £55,000 in tax which is outragous!

Oh shit, I wonder what hes going to do with his measly £110k. Hes going to starve!

Thats not the point. The point i was making before is that if someone has worked hard to earn that then they deserve to enjoy it and not have it taken away and given to people who are workshy slobs.

Do you want a communist state where everyone is equal and no one has more than anyone else. If not then face facts, in a democracy some poeple will earn more than others. The way to make sure that is a good thing is be one of the high earners.

[Senethro]

The major component in him earning that quantity of money is not his own abilities, its his being born in the UK/US/not Africa. As the state of Britain through its longterm investment in infrastructure, security, health and education is what enabled his personal success, there is a case to be made that he owes a substantial quantity of money to Britain.

If workshy slobs are that big a problem, surely you've got the figures available that you can tell me how much of Mr. Comedy's tax contribution goes to the Welfare state and how much of the Welfare state is wasted on scams/workshy slobs.

[Sr. AGiC.]

Quoting Senethro from 14:38, 8th Dec 2006
The major component in him earning that quantity of money is not his own abilities, its his being born in the UK/US/not Africa. As the state of Britain through its longterm investment in infrastructure, security, health and education is what enabled his personal success, there is a case to be made that he owes a substantial quantity of money to Britain.

If workshy slobs are that big a problem, surely you've got the figures available that you can tell me how much of Mr. Comedy's tax contribution goes to the Welfare state and how much of the Welfare state is wasted on scams/workshy slobs.

I think a personal contribution of £55,000 is a substantial contribution. I think 1/3 of your gross income is more than enough.

And it is personal abilities. Your comment on that it is not is crass. Not everyone in the UK earns £165,000 therefore it must be down to the individual.

One cannot be punished for being born in a country which gives people a good chance in life.

You arguments are frankly ridiculous.

[Mr Comedy]

Quoting Sr. AGiC. from 14:26, 8th Dec 2006

Quoting Mr Comedy from 14:22, 8th Dec 2006

Quoting Senethro from 13:54, 8th Dec 2006
How long you been graduated that you're in a £100k job?

1 year - I'm a headhunter.

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

No offence, but you are definately not earning £165,000 gross PA then.

No, but I am earning just over £100k gross PA. My point isn't to say that I'm rather tremendous, but more that the taxation system is outrageously steep in the UK. Some of my colleagues who work in Hong Kong, The Netherlands or the US earn comparable amounts but pay significantly less in the way of tax.
The difficulty with higher taxation is that people who earn large amounts of money (e.g traders in the City) can effectively work anywhere. So if you change the tax laws they would simply relocate. I would also add that it is very different talking about tax in the abstract as opposed to actually seeing it vanish from your pay cheques.

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[Sr. AGiC.]

"I would also add that it is very different talking about tax in the abstract as opposed to actually seeing it vanish from your pay cheques."

That is exactly the point i made earlier.

I see plenty of tax taken out of my pay check and i will not go into to it here but have much to lose through the current tax system. And although it is a financial loss it goes further than that.

[Senethro]

Quoting Sr. AGiC. from 14:43, 8th Dec 2006

Quoting Senethro from 14:38, 8th Dec 2006
The major component in him earning that quantity of money is not his own abilities, its his being born in the UK/US/not Africa. As the state of Britain through its longterm investment in infrastructure, security, health and education is what enabled his personal success, there is a case to be made that he owes a substantial quantity of money to Britain.

If workshy slobs are that big a problem, surely you've got the figures available that you can tell me how much of Mr. Comedy's tax contribution goes to the Welfare state and how much of the Welfare state is wasted on scams/workshy slobs.

I think a personal contribution of £55,000 is a substantial contribution. I think 1/3 of your gross income is more than enough.

And it is personal abilities. Your comment on that it is not is crass. Not everyone in the UK earns £165,000 therefore it must be down to the individual.

One cannot be punished for being born in a country which gives people a good chance in life.

You arguments are frankly ridiculous.

No you're ridiculous >:(

Why is it then that 2% of people own 50% of the wealth? Are their personal abilities higher or were they simply born in the right place and time? Which came first and which is more important? Why is an African poor and an American rich? (averages obviously)

If one shouldn't be punished for being born in Britain then why are people punished for being born outside Europe/N. america/a few other scattered parts?

I hope I've demonstrated that the world's population is not born with anything like the equal starts that would justify someone as having earned their wealth.

[Sr. AGiC.]

Everyone earns their wealth, whether they have been given a head start by being fortunate enough to be born i one particular country or not.

If i had dropped out of school and sat at home watching TV all day i would not be where i am today. Therefore I have earned the position i am in. I was not given it. I was given opportunities to work for it, for which i am grateful, but i didnt have to use those opportunitites.

[Mr Comedy]

I disagree somewhat with that. As the average UK wage is £23,244, people who earn more than that can fairly claim that their higher earning is based upon their abilities.

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[Senethro]

The head start is 90% of where most people finish. If most people never had those opportunities then the least you could do is pay tax to increase how widely those opportunities are provided. To do otherwise is to claim moral superiority for simply having received the opportunities.


Mr Comedy: Yes, the market does decide which abilities are most valuable but its hard to acquire the abilities to make yourself useful to industry while being a subsistence farmer/banana picker.

[Sr. AGiC.]

Quoting Senethro from 15:06, 8th Dec 2006
The head start is 90% of where most people finish. If most people never had those opportunities then the least you could do is pay tax to increase how widely those opportunities are provided. To do otherwise is to claim moral superiority for simply having received the opportunities.


Mr Comedy: Yes, the market does decide which abilities are most valuable but its hard to acquire the abilities to make yourself useful to industry while being a subsistence farmer/banana picker.

It is hard being a UK tenant farmer as well, and if my taxes were being used to help such people i would be more than happy to pay the tax i do.

Unfortunately i see my taxes being wasted everyday on stupid government policy and stupid positions purely for job creation.

Well Senethro. All i can say, is that when you get a well paid job, as i trust you hope to do so, (as you would not have gone to Uni otherwise) i hope you are better than the rest of us and volunteer to pay all your earnings over the average of an african farmer to charity/or the government so you dont feel guilty about being gifted a degree and a job purely beacuase you are from the UK.

[Mr Comedy]

I'm similarly inclined. As the average global earning is in the region of £2,500 I hope that you will find it in your capability to redistribute any extra above this you earn to the third world. Obviously if this is the case, it would be poor form to claim any assistance from the welfare state, so I hope that you don't resort to this either.

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[Senethro]

Quoting Mr Comedy from 15:21, 8th Dec 2006
I'm similarly inclined. As the average global earning is in the region of £2,500 I hope that you will find it in your capability to redistribute any extra above this you earn to the third world. Obviously if this is the case, it would be poor form to claim any assistance from the welfare state, so I hope that you don't resort to this either.

Whats the median global earning?

The welfare state was designed to be universal and comprehensive (Beveridge, your country needs you <3) so if I come to the point where I am eligible to use it (touch wood that I never will) I shall.

I don't feel obliged to throw away money in a manner I feel will do little good. I also feel that many styles of charity and aid are ineffective (google microloans for one of several exceptions.)

I somewhat doubt I'm going to be so luxuriously off as to be a philanthropist, but I'll participate in the political process as much as any citizen can do so as a part of raising awareness and changing policy.

Personally, I'm interested to see how EU expansion benefits Poland and other central European countries and if this can be used as a model for raising living standards elsewhere. I'll also be watching the middle class of China/India.

[Mr Comedy]

So in summation you are criticing us for earning money whilst insisting that you'll do bugger all about it yourself?

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[Sr. AGiC.]

Quoting Mr Comedy from 15:47, 8th Dec 2006
So in summation you are criticing us for earning money whilst insisting that you'll do bugger all about it yourself?

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

Exactly.

It's the old "i'll tell everyone else what to do because it will never affect me" syndrome.

If you asked someone of benefits what they would do to the tax system i suspect they would say, "tax the rich more". That is becuase they will never be rich not becuase they believe in it as a principle.

If you earned a lot of money i suspect your opinions would be very different.

[Senethro]

Where did I criticise you for earning money? Earning money isn't a problem, denying the environmental advantages that permitted you to earn that money is a problem, acting to prevent expansion of this beneficial environment is a problem.

[Sr. AGiC.]

Quoting Sr. AGiC. from 15:56, 8th Dec 2006

Quoting Mr Comedy from 15:47, 8th Dec 2006
So in summation you are criticing us for earning money whilst insisting that you'll do bugger all about it yourself?

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

Exactly Mr Comedy. Well said.

I think Senethro suffers from the old "i'll tell everyone else what to do because it will never affect me" syndrome.

If you asked someone of benefits what they would do to the tax system i suspect they would say, "tax the rich more". That is becuase they will never be rich not becuase they believe in it as a principle.

If you earned a lot of money i suspect your opinions would be very different.

[Senethro]

Quoting Sr. AGiC. from 15:56, 8th Dec 2006

Quoting Mr Comedy from 15:47, 8th Dec 2006
So in summation you are criticing us for earning money whilst insisting that you'll do bugger all about it yourself?

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

Exactly.

It's the old "i'll tell everyone else what to do because it will never affect me" syndrome.

If you asked someone of benefits what they would do to the tax system i suspect they would say, "tax the rich more". That is becuase they will never be rich not becuase they believe in it as a principle.

If you earned a lot of money i suspect your opinions would be very different.

Whereas you take the highly principled position of "fuck-em-all, its mine."

Edit: something you didn't like about your post?