It's official. Americans speak better English than the British

[proud american James]

Ok while I hate to go the nerd route on this one, I'm going to anyways as a linguistics major. Humans brains tend to simplify language into it's simplest components. The "ou" sound and the "o" sound in British english are allaphones of the same phoneme. However in American English they are not. The funny thing is that the morphology of the words did not change in England, but it did in the US. This means from a linguistic standpoint, American English is actually more accurate then British. Although British English is phoneticly easier compared to it's morphology.

Therefore, Americans beat the British (once again) at their own game in speaking English better.

[DrAlex]

I posted this only because I wanted to respond.

To say that American English treats 'ou' and 'o' as distinct phonemes when British English uses them as allophones for the same phoneme, and that the morphology of this particular phoneme has changed in the US does not in any way mean that American's speak English better than the British. All you can really infer is that, as I have always claimed, the are two very distinct dialects and people shouldn't deny their differences. As for the claim in the headline, one could well assume that the opposite is true based on a simple line of reasoning. If speaking English well is the product of a good education, and a good education is mainly an upper and middle class thing to possess, then America, as a nation with a higher population and probably therefore more lower class people, will probably speak worse English.

As for American's beating the British at their own games, see cricket, rugby and football.

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[angel_kohaku]

Yeah but Americans still can't pronounce "aluminium" properly.

I don't care what the reasoning is: Do you pronounce caesium as "caesum"? Nobellium as "Nobellum"? No. Every other element gets the "-ium", so why is aluminium any different?

[hr]

I may be a pretty sad case but I don't write jokes in base 13

[Cain]

Quoting DrAlex from 21:50, 4th Mar 2007
As for American's beating the British at their own games, see cricket, rugby and football.

As a rogue apostrophe hunter, I have to say, "Dr Alex; I'm coming for you."

[hr]

I hold an element of surprise

[kitty]

The difference between alluminum and alluminium is not pronunciation, but rather spelling. I really don't know why Americans were taught to say alluminum and to write alluminum instead of saying and writing alluminium, but we were. I'm not saying that either is better or worse I'm just pointing out where the difference lies.

[exnihilo]

Oh, Lordy.

1) Angel / Kitty, Aluminium / Aluminum, one L in each instance. And there is another element which follows the -um ending common in America, and that is Platinum. Want that to be Platinium?

2) Dr Alex, higher population, larger number of lower class people. Well, happen so. But are you contesting a higher raw number or a higher percentage? Your first point about distinct dialects was a good one, your socio-economic one was lame.

3) Unreg, Americans may well speak better English, but your post would tend to suggest they lack a grasp of basic written English. "As a linguistics major" you really should try harder: Ok? Anyways? It's simplest components? Humans brains? Tsk, tsk, for shame.

[Cain]

Quoting exnihilo from 22:31, 4th Mar 2007
3) Unreg, Americans may well speak better English, but your post would tend to suggest they lack a grasp of basic written English. "As a linguistics major" you really should try harder: Ok? Anyways? It's simplest components? Humans brains? Tsk, tsk, for shame.

It is a law as iron-clad as gravity that you cannot make a write about grammar online without having your own weaknesses manifest themselves.

[hr]

I hold an element of surprise

[angel_kohaku]

Quoting exnihilo from 22:31, 4th Mar 2007
Oh, Lordy.

1) Angel / Kitty, Aluminium / Aluminum, one L in each instance. And there is another element which follows the -um ending common in America, and that is Platinum. Want that to be Platinium?

Platinum is the same in the US as here. Therefore your point is null and void

[hr]

I may be a pretty sad case but I don't write jokes in base 13

[Grandpa]

Actually, 'aluminum' was an american invention/discovery/whatever, and it's name was changed to 'fit in' with the periodic table of elements' style of naming elements.

[hr]

We are gentlemen that neither in our hearts nor outward eyes envy the great nor shall the low despise.

[Al]

Quoting grandpa from 23:01, 4th Mar 2007
Actually, 'aluminum' was an american invention/discovery/whatever

No it wasn't.

it's name was changed to 'fit in' with the periodic table of elements' style of naming elements.

But of course. That explains why the Americans used the spelling "aluminium" throughout the 19th century, and only changed to "aluminum" when everyone else adopted their original spelling of the word.

[exnihilo]

Quoting angel_kohaku from 23:01, 4th Mar 2007
Platinum is the same in the US as here. Therefore your point is null and void

Eh? Your complaint is that Americans pronounce aluminium wrongly, but as they spell it aluminum your complaint is unfounded. If your complaint is that the spelling is also wrong and that it must and should be aluminium then you surely would change platinum to platinium as you seem to want consistent endings. Therefore the above quoted post is, at best, irrelevant and mine stands.

[exnihilo]

Quoting grandpa from 23:01, 4th Mar 2007
Actually, 'aluminum' was an american invention/discovery/whatever, and it's name was changed to 'fit in' with the periodic table of elements' style of naming elements.

Only insofar as Sir Humphry Davy was American, which is to say not at all. But you are right about the name being changed from aluminum to aluminium to match the others and subsequently, in the US, changed back to the almost original name given it by Davy (he started out with alumium before aluminum).


(Edit: Apparently, inability to spell ran in Davy's family, I've removed the errant E from his first name.)

[Bizarre Atheist]

Quoting DrAlex from 21:50, 4th Mar 2007

Bravo!

[hr]

http://www.race2paris.co.uk
http://standrews.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204763785

[DrAlex]

Quoting exnihilo from 22:31, 4th Mar 2007
Oh, Lordy.
2) Dr Alex...Your first point about distinct dialects was a good one, your socio-economic one was lame.

I agree with you, my point was that the conclusion didn't really follow on from the premises, and it most certainly is no more official than my bogus socio-economic logic.

This raises an interesting parallel to the 'why must I cite my sources?' thread...

[hr]

The Sinner: Where no one ever learned "if you haven't got any thing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[rob 'f*ck off' wine boy]

So...is the option of 'American English' and 'English' a travesty? Do we all yell 'Hell, I ain't retarded!!!!' before angrily selecting 'American English'? Yes.

[Gubbins]

Quoting rob 'f*ck off' wine boy from 00:23, 5th Mar 2007
Do we all yell 'Hell, I ain't retarded!!!!' before angrily selecting 'American English'?

Um... possibly words to that effect....

I don't have a problem with American English. If the Americans want to sand the veneer off the English language they're welcome to. Just so long as they don't go around proclaiming that the English they speak is the only true version and superior to that spoken in England (and other parts) and try to inflict it on the rest of us. And another thing...
*gets back in box*

[hr]

...but then again, that is only my opinion.

[sejanus]

Quoting Gubbins from 00:39, 5th Mar 2007
Just so long as they don't go around proclaiming that the English they speak is the only true version and superior to that spoken in England (and other parts) and try to inflict it on the rest of us. And another thing...
*gets back in box*

[hr]

...but then again, that is only my opinion.

Completely irrelevant to the current discussion, but I couldn't help but think of the Conservapedia's #8 on their list of "Examples of bias in Wikipedia:"

Quoting http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_o ... _Wikipedia from 00:39, 5th Mar 2007

Wikipedia often uses foreign spelling of words, even though most English-speaking users are American. Look up "Most Favored Nation" on Wikipedia and it automatically converts the spelling to the British spelling "Most Favoured Nation." Look up "Division of labor" on Wikipedia and it automatically converts to the British spelling "Division of labour," then insists on the British spelling for "specialization" also. Enter "Hapsburg" (the European ruling family) and Wikipedia automatically changes the spelling to Habsburg, even though the American spelling has always been "Hapsburg". Within entries British spellings appear in the silliest of places, even when the topic is American. Conservapedia favors American spellings of words.

Damn those Europeans and their dastardly foreign spellings of wholesome American words!

[LonelyPilgrim]

Spelin es fur sisys an' furiners ?

[hr]

Arma virumque cano...

[exnihilo]

Quoting sejanus from 01:38, 5th Mar 2007
Completely irrelevant to the current discussion, but I couldn't help but think of the Conservapedia's #8 on their list of "Examples of bias in Wikipedia:"

Oh, thank you so much for that! I was unaware of the existence of Conservapedia until now, but it has given me a great deal of amusement tonight - and you can be sure I shall ask my Rabbi about BCE as well and see if he gives as enlightening a response as that cited.

[Senethro]

IS AMERICAN GRAMMATICAL IMPERIALISM KILLING OUR BRITISH SCHOOL SYSTEM?