Brian Laing

[Laura]

Quoting Frank from 15:43, 25th Jun 2007

Quoting Laura from 11:39, 25th Jun 2007
'On his watch'- by that statement you are arguing that every thing that has happened since he became Principal should be attributed to him- CEOs and figure heads don't make direct decisions on what should be charged for things like that.

Not to jump in on either side of this debate, but either you or I (or both?) have a very wrong understanding of what the phrase "On his watch" implies.

To me, if you're on watch you're a guard or shift supervisor or something. Not a proactive team leader. The original use of the phrase in this thread is "It was I believe on his watch that the Halls of Residence were brought into line with the price of most London apartments."

That isn't at all suggesting what you (Laura) are arguing against in your post. Rather different: that Brian Lang didn't stop it happening. It happening on his watch makes him responsible for it going through, but that isn't to say it was him who engineered it all.

Frankly, I haven't a clue with the strictness of who's to blame or what Brain Lang's involvement was, but I sincerely think that the phrase "on his watch" doesn't mean what you took it to mean.

Regarding Lang himself, I'm sure he's perfectly wonderful, but that picture...

Maybe it's just me.
[hr]
[/i]

Well, decisions like that go through court, not over the Principal's desk for rubber stamping.

[hr]

"When I came back to Dublin, I was courtmartialled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence."

[Frank]

Quoting Laura from 15:46, 25th Jun 2007

Quoting Frank from 15:43, 25th Jun 2007

Quoting Laura from 11:39, 25th Jun 2007
'On his watch'- by that statement you are arguing that every thing that has happened since he became Principal should be attributed to him- CEOs and figure heads don't make direct decisions on what should be charged for things like that.

Not to jump in on either side of this debate, but either you or I (or both?) have a very wrong understanding of what the phrase "On his watch" implies.

To me, if you're on watch you're a guard or shift supervisor or something. Not a proactive team leader. The original use of the phrase in this thread is "It was I believe on his watch that the Halls of Residence were brought into line with the price of most London apartments."

That isn't at all suggesting what you (Laura) are arguing against in your post. Rather different: that Brian Lang didn't stop it happening. It happening on his watch makes him responsible for it going through, but that isn't to say it was him who engineered it all.

Frankly, I haven't a clue with the strictness of who's to blame or what Brain Lang's involvement was, but I sincerely think that the phrase "on his watch" doesn't mean what you took it to mean.

Regarding Lang himself, I'm sure he's perfectly wonderful, but that picture...

Maybe it's just me.
[hr]
[/i]

Well, decisions like that go through court, not over the Principal's desk for rubber stamping.

That as it might be, the 'on his watch' claim would be that he should be looking out for stuff like that. Pinning it as his fault is that he failed to notice it/do something. Of course, as I said, I've no idea about the actual case of residence prices or the history of it, but the argument put (as I see it) was that Lang failed to do anything to stop it (as opposed to being the evil overlord masterminding the scheme from the shadows).

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."

[Laura]

I don't think there is any failure- everyone agreed on it, because otherwise, the University wouldn't have been able to run the residence system anymore and it would have been contracted out. Needs must.

[hr]

"When I came back to Dublin, I was courtmartialled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence."

[[James]]

Quoting Laura from 11:39, 25th Jun 2007
We were in a financial black hole and the Quaestor & Factor and the Finance Department calculated what we needed to be charging for the residence system to survive and the figures will have gone through lots of different committees before being approved at the University Court, where amongst others, they were given the ok by two student sabbaticals and the Rector.

Thereafter, the figures disappeared off the face of the earth in case some nosey SRC bastard should start banging on about how arbitrary some of the fees are. The decision was also made to be total nobbers and never give any information about anything to anyone ever.

[David Bean]

I'm another fan of the Principal. Yes, there are gripes, but he's done a good job, and he's a nice guy in person. We could do a lot worse than that!

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Psalm 91:7

[tg]

it seems to me that he is a popular kind of guy and has done a good job, overall. So, fair play i say, but the accent...well, it nearly made me ill.

Now that I am old and graduated, I shall have to learn to be more tolerant.

[Midget]

I do think that his job is difficult in that he has to look at the long term future of the institution not just the day-to-day lives of students which is what most students and their representatives are worried about. So there are going to be clashes.

The Unversity's needs to survive, but (and this does sound rather over-dramatic I admit) The question is 'At what cost?' -to the present that is.

In addition: Everyone keeps on praising him as a person for his friendliness, but i don't think that was ever criticised. Smug people tend to be reasonably friendly even if its in a very smug way.


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IMAGE:img9.imgspot.com/u/04/241/18/160019.jpg new shite
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100090

[Eliot Wilson]

I wasn't going to wade in here, but I have to throw in my lot with exnihilo et al. I've always found Brian very pleasant and approachable, he's run the University pretty well from what I can see, and (at the risk of sounding like a grouchy old man), he's light years better than what we had before (pace Colin Vincent's interregnum, which was a lot of fun). Mind you, I found Muir Russell quite chatty and amenable too, but he's not my Principal, so what do I know? All I can say is, I thoroughly approve of the idea of appointing senior public servants as Principals of ancient Scottish universities (*hint* in about thirty years' time).

[hr]

Bill and Ted beat the Grim Reaper at Twister

Bill: "You played very well, Death, especially with your totally heavy Death robes."

Death: "Don't patronise me."

[macgamer]

What was Struther Arnott like?

[exnihilo]

Rubicund.

[McK]

Quoting macgamer from 09:05, 26th Jun 2007
What was Struther Arnott like?

Not self-aware enough to realise that his poor hair dye job had made him a complete laughing stock, and the sworn enemy of the numerous university departments he either shut down (e.g. Linguistics) or disliked (e.g. Geoscience, resulting in their 'terrapin hut' exile).

[househunter]

[quote:1n6kw4tw][b:1n6kw4tw]Quoting macgamer from 09:05, 26th Jun 2007[/b:1n6kw4tw]
What was Struther Arnott like?[/quote:1n6kw4tw]

Not self-aware enough to realise that his poor hair dye job had made him a complete laughing stock, and the sworn enemy of the numerous university departments he either shut down (e.g. Linguistics) or disliked (e.g. Geoscience, resulting in their 'terrapin hut' exile).

[Al]

Quoting macgamer from 09:05, 26th Jun 2007
What was Struther Arnott like?

He was a great man with a lot of time for each and every student.

[Anon.]

Quoting Frank George from 05:05, 25th Jun 2007
I think he looks much more placid. Like The Criminologist from Rocky Horror...

I had a vague feeling that Brian Lang reminded me of someone else for years, and now you've finally helped me see it. Thank you.

[macgamer]

Brian Lang looks as if he is related to Charles Gray:

[rubbermuffin]

Are we talking about the same Brian Lang here?

The man who

* parks his car in disabled spaces
* was never seen once even near a hall of residence in my entire 4 years at university, but many, many times at expensive dinners
* forced some students out of university and made my girlfriend cry when he oversaw the increase of hall fees by a massive, massive amount

Just to clarify.

[hr]

'If something has to change then it always does'

[rubbermuffin]

Are we talking about the same Brian Lang here?

The man who

* parks his car in disabled spaces
* was never seen once even near a hall of residence in my entire 4 years at university, but many, many times at expensive dinners
* forced some students out of university and made my girlfriend cry when he oversaw the increase of hall fees by a massive, massive amount

Just to clarify.

[hr]

'If something has to change then it always does'

[rubbermuffin]

Are we talking about the same Brian Lang here?

The man who

* parks his car in disabled spaces
* was never seen once even near a hall of residence in my entire 4 years at university, but many, many times at expensive dinners
* forced some students out of university and made my girlfriend cry when he oversaw the increase of hall fees by a massive, massive amount

Just to clarify.

[hr]

'If something has to change then it always does'

[exnihilo]

1) Is that something he did habitually? That you routinely saw him do? or something you've heard he did once and decided to hate him for?

2) Twaddle. He went to halls a lot more than the previous Principal, hell, I went with him on several occasions. How often exactly would you deem an appropriate number of times for him to go? Also, should he when entertaining large donors and government ministers and so forth have taken them to New Hall? Or, indeed, insisted that they take him there?

3) How many did he "force out"? Also, sorry as I am for your girlfriend, his policy was necessary for the University, if it reduced someone to tears that's a shame, but so pointlessly anecdotal as to be irrelevant.

If those are your reasons for hating him, you could really do with some better ones.

[rubbermuffin]

1 - The suggestion is that someone who does this, even once, is selfish and inconsiderate. The number of times is inconsequential. I'm just building up a profile of the students experience of the man - I can't pretend to know everything he has ever done ever.

2 - I never saw him when I was in halls. I would expect a principal of St Andrews University to show his face at least once a term for dinner. Perhaps attend the odd committee meeting and get to know a few students. If the previous principal was worse that has nothing to do with any judgement of Lang. I would hate to suggest that exalted government ministers be shown a hall of residence. I am merely suggesting that this is a man with his priorities in the wrong place - he didn't spend enough time with the students.

3 - Do not dare to tell me that my girlfriend being upset is irrelevant. You have clearly never suffered at the hands of an inconsolable lady. Having said that, she appreciates that you are sorry for her financial difficulties. Cheers. At least one student left university because of the increased prices - one too many I would say.

Finally, I never said I hated the man.

ps the other thing he has presided over is massively increased percentages of overseas students which limits places for home students - something I am vehemently against.

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'If something has to change then it always does'