Graduate Jobs?

[Old Hand]

According to the Higher Education Statistics Agency the average graduate salary is £17,715 and that was when the graduate recruitment market was good because the economy was going well.

Now the economy is tanking what do people think there prospects are for getting a job?

[Gealle]

This depends very much on location, sector, occupation within that sector, and a whole raft of other things.

Getting a job isn't the big issue - I would say getting a job you enjoy is more difficult.

And I'd hardly say the economy is tanking...

The economy is currently not so well in certain areas. That said, moving to my first position after finishing my graduate training can point out that it doesn't take that long to hugely increase your earnings if you stick at it.

For the sake of good taste, I'm not posting figures - but would say that if you get the right breaks double the average is not a strange sight within the financial sector as a starting wage.

Quoting Old Hand from 07:44, 22nd Mar 2008
According to the Higher Education Statistics Agency the average graduate salary is £17,715 and that was when the graduate recruitment market was good because the economy was going well.

Now the economy is tanking what do people think there prospects are for getting a job?

[hr]

So someone asked me "What is it you do?". I thought about it for a minute. Then I thought about it a little more. All the while I probably looked like I was staring in to space, struggling for an answer. And I was. There was only one response I could really give.

"I make sure the shit stays off the fan."

[Hennessy]

I have no taste so I'll tell you a friend of mine who graduated a couple of years ago is now on 30k pa. He went into law, but he graduated from a not-particularly great London university. Maybe he was just lucky, but to me it shows the potential.

[hr]

"What happened to Spoon?"
"There is no Spoon"
Dog Soldiers

[box_of_delights]

I am on a graduate management scheme earning over 20k in my training year. Although on the face of it that looks like a decent starting salary to leave uni on, when you divide it my the number of hours I work (quite often over 50 in a week) then it starts to look a lot less appealing.

As Gealle says, getting a job isn't particuarly difficult, but getting one you enjoy or which actually utlises your degree - either by means of entry or skills required - is harder. Although I quite enjoy my work, I am aware that I will either love or dislike it more after the year is up and it becomes a 'proper' job, and I won't be able to use the 'graduate trainee' excuse anymore

[hr]

[s]http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37101440&pwstdfy=c9c14f50e63e4951ba5a9abb7ffcdc6e[/s]

[Guest]

I started on the minimum wage with a 2.2 about 2 years ago. After 2 years and changing companies I still earn less than that so called graduate starting salary of £17,715. I work 40 hours a week for a professional services company, I have half completed a respected qualification. A degree counts for tit all unless it is vocational or directly relevant to your job.

[munchingfoo]

Or maybe its just because you are shit at interviews and/or go for the wrong jobs?

There's atleast one person already here who has posted their success story, why the pessimistic generalisation?

I think it all comes down to the individual, but also the final award you get could help sway some jobs your way too.

[hr]

“ When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading”

[exnihilo]

A degree counts for a great deal. It helps if it is a good degree, and it helps if it comes from a good university. However, you will get nowhere no matter how good your degree if you don't have a good CV, the capacity to speak HR, and good interview skills.

I know several people with firsts and even a couple with PhDs who are temping because they can't get a good job. This is mostly down to the assumption that their degrees somehow entitle them to one, which they do not in any way.

Few people get their dream job first try in any case, and shouldn't expect to, but every job whatever its salary is a learning experience.

[Gubbins]

Well, I'm on a hell of a lot less than £17,715, but then again I am doing a PhD. And I just found out that funding for postdocorate positions for next year has decreased from 135 places to 82, with presumably no decrease in the number of applicants. Bugger. How much do you get on the dole again?

[hr]

...then again, that is only my opinion.

[ONeill]

I only managed a 2:2 last year and I started in January on £25,000 as a project controls engineer. 40 hrs per week.

While the degree probably played a decent part in landing me the job, I did have some experience, but I can also talk a good game when I have to and look confident in doing so.

[hr]

http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37108339

"Hypnosis. You know, I'm not a big fan of that bark-like-a-chicken, cluck-like-a-dog stuff."

[Gubbins]

[hr]

...then again, that is only my opinion.

[Mr Comedy]

Quoting from 22:55, 24th Mar 2008
I started on the minimum wage with a 2.2 about 2 years ago. After 2 years and changing companies I still earn less than that so called graduate starting salary of £17,715. I work 40 hours a week for a professional services company, I have half completed a respected qualification. A degree counts for tit all unless it is vocational or directly relevant to your job.

That's bollocks. A good degree and you can be earning 21-22k easily and it doesn't need to be directly related to your job. I graduated in 05 and work in recruitment - I'm earning well north of the graduate starting salary.

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[Okocim]

Does a degree mean anything? Of course it can, otherwise respectable companies wouldn't pay an absolute fortune each year to recruit good graduates. However, as exnihilo says, without good experience, interviewing skills, etc, it rarely gets you very far.

I feel really sorry for individuals who have struggled to find good work following graduation. This problem may become more common if the economy does go sharply downhill, as graduate recruitment programmes are often some of the first things to be cut back when a company needs to save money fast.

However, after reading through some of the dreadful CVs and application forms from recent graduates that have arrived on my desk recently, I'd say that many are their own worst enemy. The careers service in St Andrews will provide advice on how to put these things together to students and graduates alike. I'd really recommend that people looking for jobs approach them. I know it sounds patronising, but it might make the world of difference. I used careers service advice (admittedly from a different university) to sharpen up my own CV and application form completion prior to job hunting last summer and they really helped - a lot.

And yes, I got a job, a really good one

[Not so far away]

Your talking about what CAN happen, not what DOES happen. You may have been lucky but what about all those who are not.

Quoting Mr Comedy from 14:00, 25th Mar 2008

Quoting from 22:55, 24th Mar 2008
I started on the minimum wage with a 2.2 about 2 years ago. After 2 years and changing companies I still earn less than that so called graduate starting salary of £17,715. I work 40 hours a week for a professional services company, I have half completed a respected qualification. A degree counts for tit all unless it is vocational or directly relevant to your job.

That's bollocks. A good degree and you can be earning 21-22k easily and it doesn't need to be directly related to your job. I graduated in 05 and work in recruitment - I'm earning well north of the graduate starting salary.

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[Mr Comedy]

Quoting Not so far away from 13:53, 10th Apr 2008
Your talking about what CAN happen, not what DOES happen. You may have been lucky but what about all those who are not.

As mentioned above, I work in recruitment, therefore I'm probably qualified to say a thing or two about the employment market in the UK given it is my area of professional specialisation. In terms of what is the norm for graduate salaries is, that above is it.
In terms of getting the right job, in my experience a lot of graduates are exceptionally lazy and therefore miss out on the good graduate jobs to people who are more organised. Anecdotally, I know a lot of people who graduated around the same time as me who didn't really do much in terms of looking for a job until the end of summer (apart from half-heartedly signing up to a couple of companies graduate recruitment schemes).

An organised graduate starts targetting companies as soon as their finals are over, goes to the careers service to get interview tips and CV writing skills, applies to a number of positions, actively contacts recruitment consultants who specialise in the area they are interested in, apply for a large number of jobs, go to several interviews with a number of firms to improve their interview skills and gets a number of job offers.

I worked hard to get a job when I graduated and interviewed with a large number of firms, interviewing all day every day for 3 weeks. By the end of this I had a number of job offers, and was able to choose the best one of the lot, and use the other offers to negotiate my entry salary higher. This isn't luck - this is the fruit of sheer hard work. Most people I know who moan that they are getting paid very little as a St Andrews grad haven't put much effort into finding a job. I've got little time for people who haven't done much work to find a job but want to moan that they aren't getting paid much.

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[Gealle]

Mr Comedy, I agree with almost everything you say there - but it's the little bit about applying as soon as finals are over. For an awful lot of graduate training programmes, organisations are looking at receiving applications at the start of the final year.

Exnihilo, Mr Comedy, and Okocim - must agree. Comes down to how well someone sells themselves personally, on paper, and playing the game.

Given nobody else seems to have any taste, let's give you a little case study so that even the "useless" degree merchants can be a little more enthused.

I finished in 2005 with 2:i Ancient History. That isn't commonly known to be the most vocational or highly sought degree in the world - but it was fun, I did what I loved, and it made me happy. Took some time out. Made a few mistakes. January 2006, I decided it was time to get a proper job: i had about 30 knock backs and 20 no replies in the space of a couple of weeks. The problem? My entire attempt at selling myself. I was selling what I had, not what I could do: focus on sorting out the employer's problem (they have a skills need), not on sorting out your own problem.

Funnily enough I got a few offers within a week of remedying this entire approach, redesigning my CV, and attending some assessment centres. Now, I dunno what that graduate "Norm" figure really is, but I guess it's probably around the 17k mark.

If you're doing what you love, and it's earning you 12k, what's the hassle? I've just come off of a programme, doing a job I pretty much hated for the first 13 months, and mildly enjoyed for the next 8 months on 30k. Not because it's a bad job, but because I wasn't suited to it.

I could have sought a promotion on that line and goodness knows how long I would have lasted. But I took a sideways step, and I'm on slightly more than I was with my programme - and it won't rise for a few years - but the point is, I'm comfortable and happy with that position and I know where it will lead. (Because private banking is the niche I slip into nicely)

I think the strongest tie in my entire case shows comes from a point Comedy put forward. You need focus, and you need a path. You don't need to know the intricacies of it at first, you don't even have to know where it is (does help though), but you need a drive to get out there and find it.

Make use of the careers service, make use of your contacts. I've said it before, and I've said it again, if anyone's interested in financial services, I'm more than happy to have a chat; I would put money on Sinners in other areas being equally happy to do so.

Just try to avoid putting a round peg in a square hole for too long. It'll drive you barmy.

[hr]

So someone asked me "What is it you do?". I thought about it for a minute. Then I thought about it a little more. All the while I probably looked like I was staring in to space, struggling for an answer. And I was. There was only one response I could really give.

"I make sure the shit stays off the fan."

[box_of_delights]

I echo the above two posts, but agree with Gealle that the closing date for graduate training schemes is often before Christmas of the final year so I wouldn't advise waiting until the finals are over. I had friends who were using taking the angle that they would rather concentrate on their work than bother with jobs, but it meant they had little security when they graduated with their (albeit) respectable degree. The fact remains that everyone is a graduate these days, and even the St Andrews kudos, or a good First of 2:1 degree won't guarantee anything unless you start early.

[hr]

[s]http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37101440&pwstdfy=c9c14f50e63e4951ba5a9abb7ffcdc6e[/s]

[Old Hand]

There are a lot of graduates who are posting on this thread about how they are currently doing, but the question seems to be what are currents students expecting to be earning on graduation?

[Steveo]

Upon graduation (about 6 days after, actually), I'll start on £22k, which isn't too bad right out. That can go up to £40k without being promoted.

That's doing something which uses my Sustainable Development degree (consultant).

[hr]

Get off my internet.

[LonelyPilgrim]

Also, bear in mind folks, that a 'job' is only one option. If you have no luck or skill at being hired by someone else, consider going into business for yourself.

I left St Andrews *without* a degree of any kind. I sat around feeling sorry for myself for a while, and then after failing to find a job (my educational background is of no use whatsoever where I am, and the local economy is barely on life support), I used a contact to start my own service. I now write reports and conduct historical and cultural research for traders in the antiquities market. It pays around $150 an *hour*, I work enough hours to pay the bills each month (some months more, some less, naturally), and have plenty of free time to work on my real passion - an historical novel exploring the interplay between duty to love and duty to ideology.

I'm considering moving somewhere else and doing something else (the international antiquities market has pretty well collapsed in the last couple months), but the point is this: don't assume that your success depends upon the patronage of other people. If you have a skill, sell it - to an employer if you can, but if not don't be afraid to do something you can sell directly to clients yourself.

[hr]

Self-control is the chief element of self-respect; self-respect is the chief element of courage. - Thucydides

[Guest]

Quoting Old Hand from 16:10, 11th Apr 2008
There are a lot of graduates who are posting on this thread about how they are currently doing, but the question seems to be what are currents students expecting to be earning on graduation?

Well I am a current student graduating next year. I currently make £25 an hour teaching music. The market is absolutely saturated with kids looking to learn, I can only teach so many whilst I'm at uni. Making a full time job of this after graduation for a couple of years before I decide what to do with life, I'll be expecting to make at least £40,000 in my first graduate year.