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Stop anonymising coursework!

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Stop anonymising coursework!

Postby jamesboulter on Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:31 am

Join the group at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12618646094

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This is a group for everyone who’s sick of the University authorities making our courses more like a conveyor-belt and less like an education!

The University Court has given in to some overblown political correctness from the Union and torn up the last dying vestiges of the student-tutor relationship.

What’s wrong with a tutor knowing who wrote an essay they are marking anyway? If my tutor hates me, it’s probably because I’m annoying in tutorials and deserve a bad mark.

Some of the great figures of history owed much of their success to their relationship with their tutor. What would Plato have said if Aristotle had to submit his coursework anonymously?

The Union’s “Director of Representation”, Steve Savage, said in his oh-so-widely-read propaganda newsletter*: “We’re not accusing staff of deliberate bias, but there is an element of the sub-conscious”. This is a deliberate fudge. Either he’s accusing tutors of being unprofessional or not. Which is it?

Most worryingly of all, he adds “this is a step in the right direction”. What does he have in mind next? Students turning up to tutorials in balaclavas?**

In practice, anonymous submission is a joke in any case. The tutor often knows which essay everyone is doing in advance and may well know their writing style.

So we call on the University to see sense and retract this damaging policy. In the meantime, let’s rebel and put our names on every single page of every piece of work! We’re proud to be real people!

Anonymous (060003115)

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* http://www.yourunion.net/news/index.php ... ws_id=6987
** - We love Steve and we know he’s done lots of good work as DoR – but we can’t agree with all his policies!
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Re:

Postby Frank on Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:51 am

Quoting jamesboulter from 10:31, 25th Mar 2008The University Court has given in to some overblown political correctness from the Union and torn up the last dying vestiges of the student-tutor relationship.

What’s wrong with a tutor knowing who wrote an essay they are marking anyway? If my tutor hates me, it’s probably because I’m annoying in tutorials and deserve a bad mark.

Some of the great figures of history owed much of their success to their relationship with their tutor. What would Plato have said if Aristotle had to submit his coursework anonymously?


One might equally assert (though, by sheer confirmation bias alone one slightly lacks the figures to make it a fully grounded assertion) that a fair amount of the 'idiots', failures, dropouts or even simply who never achieved their full potential through history may well have done so because their tutor or overseer was a jealous, spiteful or otherwise incompetent menace.

The beneficial student-tutor relationship can be formed in otherways: student-mentor relationship? (I.e. once you've recieved your anonymised essay back you go to your tutor, lecturer or other reasonably well informed figure and start asking them questions about it).

Quoting jamesboulter from 10:31, 25th Mar 2008
The Union’s “Director of Representation”, Steve Savage, said in his oh-so-widely-read propaganda newsletter*: “We’re not accusing staff of deliberate bias, but there is an element of the sub-conscious”. This is a deliberate fudge. Either he’s accusing tutors of being unprofessional or not. Which is it?
False dichotomy. He's pushing a third option: That regardless of specifics it is entirely possible that any given tutor might make mistakes. This is the same for all academics: Bias crops in regardless. To reduce it is to reduce it. Few people (?) directly steal things or make things up, but it's still prudent to ask for complete referencing and a bibliography.

Quoting jamesboulter from 10:31, 25th Mar 2008Most worryingly of all, he adds “this is a step in the right direction”. What does he have in mind next? Students turning up to tutorials in balaclavas?**
I see little problem with anonymity. Tutors really need (deserve?) little else to go on than academic ability. I find it quite worrying that folks'll be marked down academically simply because they're lacking the correct social skills to bond to a huge degree with their tutors.

Quoting jamesboulter from 10:31, 25th Mar 2008In practice, anonymous submission is a joke in any case. The tutor often knows which essay everyone is doing in advance and may well know their writing style.


This, I can sortof agree with. If you've a strong academic (or other) relationship with your tutor, it's going to be very difficult to keep things anonymous. This, more than anything else here, is the only really objectionable part. (As it could potentially invalidate the whole exercise.)

Quoting jamesboulter from 10:31, 25th Mar 2008So we call on the University to see sense and retract this damaging policy. In the meantime, let’s rebel and put our names on every single page of every piece of work! We’re proud to be real people!

Anonymous (060003115)


Just because you're a real person, doesn't mean you have to show how individual you are to fit in with everyone else.

Personally, I'm a mindless automata and love the fact that, so far, my assessed work is rarely, if ever, anonymous. But, being largely faceless too, it makes bugger all difference.

[hr]

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Re:

Postby Thalia on Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:48 am

Well, see, your argument isn't relevant for all departments with regards to markers knowing your writing style - in psychology we have very little in the way of continuous assessment (one essay per module for most of them), and we also have no tutor system after second year - our essays are marked by our lecturers and when there's a class of 25 all answering the same question, i find it unlikely they know who wrote what when they're marking (our essays have always been anonymous).

It is very easy to be influenced subconsciously by personal views and opinions. I would never think that any marker in this uni would purposefully mark someone up or down, however, i do think it's better to ensure that these biases aren't able to creep into marking. It may be the difference of no more than a point but that could be the difference between a first and a 2:1.

I could very easily imagine a case where someone was in a rush to get finished, thought the essay was on the borderline for a first, had a quick look at who wrote it and was influenced by the person's attitude in class to decide. I'm useless in class at times - Friday classes i tend to be hungover for, Monday classes i just hate being at, and when i have other things to do i've not always had time to do the reading for class either. But i do get good marks and i would find it rather unfair if the fact i'm not so good in class could potentially mean a difference in classification for me.

Also, this protects those marking essays as well. If it's anonymous then no student can turn around and argue that they got a low grade because their lecturer doesn't like them or their attitude.

[hr]

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Re:

Postby exnihilo on Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:57 am

Anonymous marking is a joke. But if people want to believe that your tutors are evil, spiteful people who can't wait to bring their students down rather than hard-working professionals who take a real pride in seeing a student's marks improve over the year, they should feel free. I suspect they are exactly the same people who will get the least form their university experience.
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Re:

Postby Jono on Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:09 pm

Just to be clear; I disagree with pretty much all the angry white male gobshite that's coming out of your mouth.

I joined the group because in my opinion the anonymisation of coursework is incompatable with the prevailing climate of the history department. In contrast to Psycology, we have tutorials with class sizes of less than ten, and seminars of ten to twenty. We have semester-long tutors, and a personal relationship with that tutor is pretty important to the whole course.

In light of that, Anonymisation is stupid because A) It undermines that relationship, and B) More often than not, your tutor knows who wrote what essay anyway! In any event, to get feedback; you have to own up to the essay.

This policy has affected worst those classes whose structure sets each student a unique essay, two due in each week. It actually undermines the whole course, and one of my tutors is openly flouting the policy as a result. I'm happy with that; as are the entire seminar group if anyone's got a problem!

Which brings me to my next point; I feel that this policy was adopted and pushed by the union with bugger-all democratic participation. Where was the vote? The only thing I heard about this was when a survey was taken by a couple of guys outside the main library. I certainly hope the faculty of Arts didn't adopt this policy on the basis of that!
Now some people weren't happy about the content of that last post. And we can't have someone not happy. Not on the internet.
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Re:

Postby Raaaaaaaar on Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:48 pm

The democratic participation was when Steve Savage was elected by a majority vote of the student population last year. People complain that the elected officials and the union are never seen to do anything and then when they do something it gets everyone very upset.

Quoting Jono from 12:09, 25th Mar 2008
Just to be clear; I disagree with pretty much all the angry white male gobshite that's coming out of your mouth.

I joined the group because in my opinion the anonymisation of coursework is incompatable with the prevailing climate of the history department. In contrast to Psycology, we have tutorials with class sizes of less than ten, and seminars of ten to twenty. We have semester-long tutors, and a personal relationship with that tutor is pretty important to the whole course.

In light of that, Anonymisation is stupid because A) It undermines that relationship, and B) More often than not, your tutor knows who wrote what essay anyway! In any event, to get feedback; you have to own up to the essay.

This policy has affected worst those classes whose structure sets each student a unique essay, two due in each week. It actually undermines the whole course, and one of my tutors is openly flouting the policy as a result. I'm happy with that; as are the entire seminar group if anyone's got a problem!

Which brings me to my next point; I feel that this policy was adopted and pushed by the union with bugger-all democratic participation. Where was the vote? The only thing I heard about this was when a survey was taken by a couple of guys outside the main library. I certainly hope the faculty of Arts didn't adopt this policy on the basis of that!
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Re:

Postby Gealle on Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:54 pm

I had no idea that this was the case. From an old-hand point of view, it would have done me much more harm than it ever did good having essays anonymised. Beside anything else, the tutor will be much more able to give tailored feedback to a student if they know who wrote what: for a start, they'll know how students will approach a certain... hell, for want of a better word... management style from them. Which is effectively what your continuous assessment feedback is: managing your performance for the future.

Poor show to the clowns who brought this in.

[hr]

So someone asked me "What is it you do?". I thought about it for a minute. Then I thought about it a little more. All the while I probably looked like I was staring in to space, struggling for an answer. And I was. There was only one response I could really give.

"I make sure the shit stays off the fan."
So someone asked me "What is it you do?". I thought about it for a minute. Then I thought about it a little more. All the while I probably looked like I was staring in to space, struggling for an answer. And I was. There was only one response I could really give.

"I make sure the shit stays off the fan."
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Re:

Postby starsandsparkles on Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:50 pm

I received an e-mail from my tutor just before a deadline reminding us to not put our names on our coursework, just our matriculation numbers so I did just that.

I received it back today and it now has my name written across the top, which must've been written by my tutor as it's the same handwriting and the same pen.

Slightly ridiculous.
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Re:

Postby d_24 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:20 pm

This post is trying to be revolutionary about fuck all. You can stop the "stickin it to The Man" language because there's no issue here.

Quoting jamesboulter from 10:31, 25th Mar 2008
What’s wrong with a tutor knowing who wrote an essay they are marking anyway? If my tutor hates me, it’s probably because I’m annoying in tutorials and deserve a bad mark.


Bollocks. If a tutor has a personal disliking for a student then for that to influence their marking for the student's academic work is outrageous and they should be sacked. You can be a dick but it shouldn't stop you from getting the mark you deserve.

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Re:

Postby exnihilo on Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:41 pm

So because there might be the odd dick who should not suffer for it everyone loses the personal relationship with their tutor? Sounds about par for the course.
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Re:

Postby Raaaaaaaar on Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:58 pm

How will you lose a personal relationship with your tutor? You're not going to stop going to tutorials and interacting with your tutor so that relationship will be there. Submitting an essay with your number instead of name on it won't change that relationship. Similarly, anonymisation won't stop you getting feedback on an essay. You take it to the tutor once it has been marked and they can discuss it in more detail with you.

Quoting exnihilo from 17:41, 25th Mar 2008
So because there might be the odd dick who should not suffer for it everyone loses the personal relationship with their tutor? Sounds about par for the course.
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Re:

Postby Gealle on Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:03 pm

Used to be that you could quite easily finger people on telnet to find out what their matric number is...

If a tutor REALLY hated someone, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to twig whose number is whose...

Quoting Raaaaaaaar from 17:58, 25th Mar 2008
How will you lose a personal relationship with your tutor? You're not going to stop going to tutorials and interacting with your tutor so that relationship will be there. Submitting an essay with your number instead of name on it won't change that relationship. Similarly, anonymisation won't stop you getting feedback on an essay. You take it to the tutor once it has been marked and they can discuss it in more detail with you.

Quoting exnihilo from 17:41, 25th Mar 2008
So because there might be the odd dick who should not suffer for it everyone loses the personal relationship with their tutor? Sounds about par for the course.


[hr]

So someone asked me "What is it you do?". I thought about it for a minute. Then I thought about it a little more. All the while I probably looked like I was staring in to space, struggling for an answer. And I was. There was only one response I could really give.

"I make sure the shit stays off the fan."
So someone asked me "What is it you do?". I thought about it for a minute. Then I thought about it a little more. All the while I probably looked like I was staring in to space, struggling for an answer. And I was. There was only one response I could really give.

"I make sure the shit stays off the fan."
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Re:

Postby RobFett on Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:28 pm

1) For the sake of sinner pettiness it was Academic Council and not Court who approved this (in fact if I remember rightly, Academic Council did not even discuss it but merely passed it based on the discussions at TLA)

2) If you want to then write your name on. I don't think you should be forced to annonymise your work if you think it will benefit your education.

3) Psycholgy did some experiments and showed that there was unconsious bias present when markers knew who wrote the essay.

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Re:

Postby creepy old man on Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:41 pm

I think a student should be able to anonymise her coursework if she wants to, but the new policy in several departments does not seem to be optional. I've received several emails from different course coordinators specifying that we must not put our names anywhere on our essays or other submissions. Recently I was working on an assignment and was unsure if I could approach my tutor to ask specific questions about what I wanted to write. That sort of discussion would have made it very obvious which piece of work was mine, and considering how threatening the anonymisation emails sounded, I decided not to ask any of the questions. Seems to me to remove half the effect of having a tutor at all.

Personally, I find this new policy annoying because everyone says that participating well in tutorials could very well get you a higher mark from your tutor. I know the university probably doesn't encourage that sort of marking, but as someone who always prepares for and speaks in tutorials, I find it annoying that all that hard work can't have any effect on my coursework marks. The way I see it, anonymising coursework means that it doesn't matter how we behave in tutorials, as long as we show up. There are already enough people in my tutorials who do no preparation and contribute nothing to the class, leaving others to fill the silences. I have a feeling this could only make that worse.
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Re:

Postby LonelyPilgrim on Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:44 pm

I wish this policy weren't necessary, but based on my personal experiences, I think it is a step in the right direction. I lost count of the number of times I had essays remarked because I felt the marking exhibited bias. On one occassion I had a tutor give me a 5 and write on the essay "Disappointed, I thought you were intelligent." Upon re-marking by the course co-ordinator that same '5' essay received an '18'.

That was the most blatant example, from Philosophy, but I had similar problems in IR, Economics, and Social Anthropology. Shockingly enough, the tutor who *seemed* to like me the least gave me consistently high marks, which just goes to show that bias is not something easily detectable in outward attitude.

I should point out that every instance of this sort of problem that I had was the result of tutors marking my papers. In Honours, when there were no more tutors interposed between the lecturers and students, I had no further problems. Ideally, post-grads ought not to have the responsibility to mark papers, but with the class sizes being what they are, I can't think of any way to avoid this necessity. Anonymity is the next best thing, but perhaps it should be dropped for 3rd and 4th year.

[hr]

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Re:

Postby Huckabee on Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:23 pm

Quoting starsandsparkles from 15:50, 25th Mar 2008
I received an e-mail from my tutor just before a deadline reminding us to not put our names on our coursework, just our matriculation numbers so I did just that.

I received it back today and it now has my name written across the top, which must've been written by my tutor as it's the same handwriting and the same pen.

Slightly ridiculous.


Coursework has to be de-anonymised after is it marked so they can enter the mark on your record and give it back to you. Although, in theory a tutor could do this before marking because they all have a list of student names and matriculation numbers.

I can see how this would be valuable in some subjects. However, as was already said, I don't think it works in history at all especially when students have to set their own topic which requires discussion with your tutor.
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Re:

Postby starsandsparkles on Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:14 pm

Quoting Huckabee from 19:23, 25th Mar 2008
Quoting starsandsparkles from 15:50, 25th Mar 2008
I received an e-mail from my tutor just before a deadline reminding us to not put our names on our coursework, just our matriculation numbers so I did just that.

I received it back today and it now has my name written across the top, which must've been written by my tutor as it's the same handwriting and the same pen.

Slightly ridiculous.


Coursework has to be de-anonymised after is it marked so they can enter the mark on your record and give it back to you. Although, in theory a tutor could do this before marking because they all have a list of student names and matriculation numbers.

I can see how this would be valuable in some subjects. However, as was already said, I don't think it works in history at all especially when students have to set their own topic which requires discussion with your tutor.


Shouldn't the de-anonymisation by done by someone else then and not the person who marked it/your tutor?

The tutor handed the work back to us invidiually and personally. It defeats the object, surely?
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Re:

Postby exnihilo on Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:57 pm

Quoting Raaaaaaaar from 17:58, 25th Mar 2008
How will you lose a personal relationship with your tutor? You're not going to stop going to tutorials and interacting with your tutor so that relationship will be there. Submitting an essay with your number instead of name on it won't change that relationship. Similarly, anonymisation won't stop you getting feedback on an essay. You take it to the tutor once it has been marked and they can discuss it in more detail with you.


You can either have a tutor student relationship or you can have an anonymous production-line approach. If the tutor is not to know whose work he or she is marking then said tutor would need to provide essay topics randomly, and decline to offer advice until work has been submitted, marked and returned to the student (presumably by someone else), anything else would defeat the point of anonymous marking.

It is, as I said in my initial post, a joke. An unworkable, cumbersome, pointless joke. A system which works is being screwed with to satisfy a small number of people who fear their tutor is out to get them. Every one of my colleagues takes pride in their students' work and are thrilled when a student's work improves over time. We all have students at one time or another for whom we do not care, but we are not so petty as to be deliberately sabotaging that student. Not least because on appeal or double-marking if we were seen to be wildly out in our judgement it would look very bad indeed.
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Re:

Postby rob 'f*ck off' wine boy on Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:36 pm

I have every confidence that you and those you know are in possession of significant integrity and are extremely professional in regards to your conduct, but you cannot make an argument based solely on your own experience.

Furthermore, what if you're in on the conspiracy, and in fact want this state of affairs reversed so that you can go back to joyously undermining the hard work of all the students under your tutelage?

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean your work isn't being screwed over by every academic at the institution you attend whenever the opportunity arises. To believe otherwise would be utterly, gobsmackingly, jaw-droppingly and hideously unrealistic. I feel it might be prudent to point out that I am being sarcastic here.

Also, jamesboulter, your argument is somewhat perplexing. You appear to observe the fact that a tutor might be biased in their treatment of certain students, but that's okay because they're probably annoying anyway. Right. I think you might be on the wrong side of this discussion.
Thought begets Heresy; Heresy begets retribution.
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Re:

Postby Jono on Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:44 pm

I think the whole thing can be summed up in three words: Life isn't anonymous!

In an ideal world, we would be judged on our own merits, regardless of anything else. But sadly the real world is a harsh, unforgiving place! Hard work pays off; but people will still find the world stacked against them for such trivial reasons as personality clash, race, and even cleavage!

The fruits of your labors will never live in an isolated bubble. If Uni is to prepare us for the real world, then what's the point in pretending otherwise?
Now some people weren't happy about the content of that last post. And we can't have someone not happy. Not on the internet.
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