Drinking vs Going Teetotal at Uni

[ct3012]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7650601.stm

It may be yet-another-BBC-link, but I thought it would be quite interesting to think about (even though it has more than likely been done many a time on the Sinner, but heh).
It is possible to have a tee-total fresher's/orientation/pre-sesh week, but does that not lead to a certain level of exclusion? Take for example a certain hall of residence's freshers week festivities. The committee organised events involving: A Cava reception, a vodka reception, and a house party that had around £300 of hall subs spent on booze.
The main events at the union largely revolved around the kinds of music that most people require alcohol to find the ability to dance to.

A side point - given the amount of students (in particular, Scottish students because of the school leaving ages) who are 17 during fresher's week and sometimes throughout a fair portion of their first year should the Union not be more socially responsible if they were stricter with IDing people who looked under 21 (like in Tescos) and required under 18s to leave after 9pm? Imagine if the Union lost their license that, one would assume, is essentially one of the main contributors to it's revenue... What would the world come to?

[orudge]

Nice to see Raisin Monday in the photos there.

[ct3012]

It's what inspired me to post it on the board

[Duggeh]

The article is a load of arsebiscuits, it offers two images, one of the teetotal anti-drinking, doesn't even like to be near people who are drinking. The other is the image of the binge drinking nedlike student.

Doesn't seem to allow for the instance of going out for 3 pints, without that continuing into 3 more pints, a pitcher of cocktail, 5 rounds of shots and a vomit in the gutter.

Odd.

[LonelyPilgrim]

I went tee-total not just during first year but also throughout second year. I didn't feel particularly excluded in general, although I did not participate in Raisin Weekend (being as I was out of town on an MUN trip to Cambridge).

[Cain]

I was teetotal for four years at uni (and still am).

I still went out to the pub and stayed up late with my friends.

The only social effect that it had would probably be that I was aware of situations where I might have made bad decisions and I got to see just how dull some people are when they're drunk

[ct3012]

I wasn't trying to suggest that it can't be done, what I'm trying to get at is: Is it right that the general "student" idea is "lets go out and get wasted"? A good example of this is Dundee Union, where a good amount of the events are promoted with cheap drinks and are proudly aimed at the drunken-wanker-student market - why do they get away with only openly catering to this market?

[Fawksie]

The Students' Association here care about safeguarding their licence about as much as they care about safeguarding the health of their members. Being seen as a responsible licencee, and not promoting excessive drinking is important in maintaining the licence, with its extended opening hours, and thus maintaining one of the key sources of funding. Perhaps Dundee Union don't feel quite the same pressure.

[Thalia]

http://www.dusa.co.uk/files/eventtimeta ... ester1.jpg

Since you used Dundee Union as an example, i looked it up. There are a few events advertised with cheap drinks in mind but the cheapest (£1 drinks - skint) apears to be aimed more at those students who don't have a lot of money to spare. From what I can tell, they don't seem any more aimed at drunken wasters than St Andrews and seem to focus more on music nights. And yes, sometimes going out and dancing/ clubbing is inextricably linked to drinking for some people but I don't remember anyone ever telling me it had to be.

Even on the front page of the website, the latest event advertised is a university challenge type competition.

[Freaker]

http://www.dusa.co.uk/files/eventtimetable_semester1.jpg

I love the fact how they have two patches on there saying that 80% of events are free, and two saying that 'ALL EVENTS ARE FREE unless otherwise stated' ....

[Ewan Husami]

During Freshers' Week, the union provided a different colour wristband for its new members who were under 18 (even if they turned 18 during the week, they still had a green wristband until the day after their birthday). If you're under 18 you still have the right to enjoy all the facilities within the building right up until it closes - why should you be turfed out at 9pm? The Union staff want to make sure that no one breaks the law by drinking in the building if they're underage, and take it very seriously, as it has repercussions on both the licencee and the person caught drinking underage (they don't want their members with a criminal record!)

The vast majority of the Union's events are not centred around drinking. It is perfectly possible to enjoy the evenings without drinking a drop of alcohol, as I've found from the necessity to remain sober in order to drive home.

If we look at the upcoming week's events, we'll see:
MONDAY - Pub Quiz: Held in the bar, but not exclusive to alcohol. Fizzy soft drinks and fruit juices available alongside alcohol.
TUESDAY - Multicolour: Venue1's FREE event (buy a drink and you get a free wristband). Again, could be any soft drink
WEDNESDAY - Games Night: Play pool or try your hand (feet) at the dance machine - you'd be at a considerable disadvantage if you were wasted.
THURSDAY - Stock Exchange Bar: Both alcoholic and soft drinks are included, although the alcohol suppliers tend to offer more freebies.
FRIDAY - Bop: The chance to enjoy classic songs and new chart music. With all the dancing, it's sensible to keep yourself hydrated - the Union even installed drinking fountains in Venue 1 and the Main Bar to make sure people don't need to queue at the bar for free water.
SATURDAY - Live Music with Rocksoc: Again, the focus is on the music.
SUNDAY - Sunday Blues: A chillout evening featuring blues and jazz - you can even roll up with your instrument and jam with the band should you wish.

It's true that the bar makes the Union a good deal of money, but the staff are very careful to ensure that they don't let anyone into the building who is obviously too drunk, and if anyone becomes too drunk while they're in the building, they are asked to leave (and in many cases are actually taken home to make sure they get to their house safely).

It is, after all the Students' Association, and every penny made from sales is put straight back into the organisation to fund things like Societies (every affiliated society receives £25 each year to help get them started, and can apply for a grant to cover specific costs throughout the year) and Representational services such as accommodation advice (how many of you had difficulties with accommodation this year, but received free assistance from the Union?) or academic representation (if the Uni is treating you unfairly, the Union will represent you free of charge to ensure you get a fair deal). The Union also provides free personal alarms to help keep you safe.

So yes, the Union does sell alcohol (at consistently low prices to cater for those with lower budgets), but it's not ALL about alcohol - it also provides non-alcohol-related entertainments, makes a concerted effort to and to ensure its members remain looked after, in all aspects of University life in St Andrews.

[Hennessy]

Have never needed to be teetotal as I am not afraid of alcohol or of being drunk. I work at the union and serve people who should probably never be allowed to drink however so I see how infuriatingly dull people are when drunk, and also how bog-standard predictable they are as well.

I could bring the whole irresponsible binge-drinking argument in here but I for one don't see how it should apply to students in St Andrews. The people who come here are educated on these things and for the most part highly intelligent. The same argument doesnt apply to 15 year old GCSE students as it does to us. I'll put my argument plainly and simply, it is childish to be at one end of the spectrum or the other on a constant basis, because both ways you are quite clearly losing out.


Teetotal___________________________Happy Medium____________________________Pisshead

ABNORMAL------------------------------------- NORMAL ---------------------------------------ABNORMAL


It's ok to swing from one way to the other occasionally, in fact it's healthy, and all this nonsense about binge drinking and fretting about what to do is just because people refuse to own up to their own personal responsibility to keep the happy medium. Before anyone recoils in horror here, yes I did mention personal responsibility, that oft maligned mantra which our dear old nanny state seeks to strip from us. Far better, I suppose, to live life by a draconian set of rules about what you can and cannot touch, and suffer soberly the oblivious antics of dear friends actually having a good time. I suspect many teetotalers feel a calming sense of aloofness and superiority which helps them enforce their prohibition, and also that many of them do not quite understand what a good time on alcohol is really like, just as their pisshead friend, stumbling into the loo to be sick again, should really take a long hard look at what he's drinking and take a break for a while.

[Mr Comedy]

I've started uni as teetotal, turned into a massive pisshead after about 9 months and I've recently gone back to being teetotal, which so far has lasted a couple of months and I'm intending to keep going for a while.

I suppose one thing that the 'happy medium' doesn't mention is that in certain social groups, this medium doesn't exist and would have you happily labeled as boring by the rest of the group. So even having 3-4 pints over an evening isn't deemed as right. I found in a number of societies (especially the sports ones), that drinking was pretty much 'the' social activity, so I can empathise with those who've said they feel excluded. A degree of social isolation is to be expected in certain groups unfortunately.

It's not just a uni thing though - at my workplace in the City (which I recently left), like the rest of the City the focus was on getting obliterated on Thursday and Friday nights. More money earned and more pressure at work simply meant that substantially more money was spent doing so.

There is almost a recklessness that comes with it - the sort of 'fuck it' attitude that comes after a few drinks where me and a lot of people I know just want to get annihilated. Or where we set off out with that specific end in mind. I know sometimes I felt that the day at work had been sufficiently stressful to require me getting out my skull. I don't like myself when I'm drunk, and I don't like the hangovers in the morning, or the sheer cost of a decent drinking habit.
I've also found that due to this, it's easier for me to say no full-stop than try and say no with a couple in me.

Was there a point to this? I suppose it's just a general rant that it's disappointing that the British culture is a binge-drinking one - I don't think it's a 'cheap drinks' thing, as workers in the City still binge-drink, just on Mojitos, champagne and assorted cocktails. It's something embedded in the pysche, and it's a shame. But I've found the only way I can counteract it socially is to go teetotal.

[Fawksie]

Interestingly, Hennessy, your drinking scale rendered perfectly in whatever font the board uses in Windows, but not in OS X

Personally, I've never understood the point of drinking-to-get-drunk, and I can't believe that I actually encounter people who look at me like I've got two heads when I tell them that. For them alcohol is a means to an end, and that, I suspect, is why the Union sells so much Tennents...

[Stu le taxi]

The Students' Association here care about safeguarding their licence about as much as they care about safeguarding the health of their members. Being seen as a responsible licencee, and not promoting excessive drinking is important in maintaining the licence, with its extended opening hours, and thus maintaining one of the key sources of funding. Perhaps Dundee Union don't feel quite the same pressure.

There was an article in the Courier last month about 'binge tours', which mentioned Dundee and other universities in relation to something called 'Carnage UK'.

BTW, surely there's an inherent contradiction between being a responsible licensee and extended opening hours, as highlighted in your quote?

[Haunted]

I've never understood the point of drinking-to-get-drunk

Madness. The sodding greeks did it to get drunk, and being drunk is usually pretty good, why shouldn't we be drinking to get drunk? Unless you know of another reason for imbibing ethanol?

[orudge]

There was an article in the Courier last month about 'binge tours', which mentioned Dundee and other universities in relation to something called 'Carnage UK'.

Hmm, a quick google reveals "DUNDEE'S DIRTY PORN STAR FANCY DRESS EVENT". Sounds like carnage indeed. Not entirely sure how it'll differ from a typical night out in Dundee though...

[Stu le taxi]

There was an article in the Courier last month about 'binge tours', which mentioned Dundee and other universities in relation to something called 'Carnage UK'.

Sorry, the reason I made that post was to include the link to the article, but I clearly forgot :

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2008 ... 2366t0.asp

[LonelyPilgrim]

I've never understood the point of drinking-to-get-drunk

Madness. The sodding greeks did it to get drunk, and being drunk is usually pretty good, why shouldn't we be drinking to get drunk? Unless you know of another reason for imbibing ethanol?

Aye, but the Greeks got drunk as part of a symposium, or dinner with conversation. Things perhaps degenerated from their as the night went on, but the point was to enjoy each other's company and at least start off in civilised fashion. They would also take all night to get the point of being totally smashed.

If you want a classical culture where people drank to get drunk as quickly as possible, look at Rome. There, the law said a dinner party had to elect a fellow to set the pace of the drinking. Everyone had to, by law, drink as much as he did, regardless of their personal preferences or tolerances. Jolly good time, no?

[Frank]

There was an article in the Courier last month about 'binge tours', which mentioned Dundee and other universities in relation to something called 'Carnage UK'.

Hmm, a quick google reveals "DUNDEE'S DIRTY PORN STAR FANCY DRESS EVENT". Sounds like carnage indeed. Not entirely sure how it'll differ from a typical night out in Dundee though...

That website hurts my head. That'd be carnage then.