Barack Obama inauguration

[Guest]

Barack Obama has been inaugurated as the 44th President of the United States, as the first African-American president and bringing an end to the dumbfuck reign of Bush.

Thoughts?

[I only watched in case someone got shot]

It's humbling to watch history in the making. But I have a feeling that unless you're American and/or Christian there's little for you in his speech (I didn't like the way he said 'non-believers'). Also, he messed up the crucial part, but then so would I with MILLIONS watching.

[Haunted]

I really enjoyed that speech. A little something for everyone.

[d_24]

It is worrying that the most influential man in the world at the present is counting on an imaginary friend, but then so has every other president and they are in charge of a country with an overwhelmingly Christian majority. I'm hoping his scripture quotations and God bless this n that was just playing to these people, so it does no harm. Though he did get a controversial anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion guy to do the opening prayer. Now a reverend is doing his bit, there is NOTHING for any of the shunned "non-believers", this is hardly progress.

[Haunted]

Oh come on, all that is part and parcel of the ceremony. What did you expect?
I'll agree though that Rick Warren was a poor choice and I kinda zoned out on his bit but from what I remember it wasn't as bad as I was expecting.

Obama talked about America being a nation of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew and Non-believers. That's worth something.
And he talked about bringing science back to America, that got a big cheer.

[I only watched in case someone got shot]

Yeah yeah you can say tradition and this is how it's always been. But that doesnt make it any more right, or any more acceptable.

I hope he just used religious language to keep the raving bigoted brain-dead faithful quiet. Because any other reason is a BAD sign of things to come. The moment ANYTHING religious (read: make-believe, nonsense, irrational) interferes with Obama's governing is the moment something bad has happened but I'll except that nothing bad has actually happened yet.

The non-believers bit was a bit insulting actually, he should have said atheist. You shouldn't make it sound like to not believe is how people should be defined as if it's somehow abnormal or wrong.

When did the science bit happed, what was said?

[Power Metal Dom]

Haunted has a point. I think if you are in favour of a more secular nation then surely Obama is at least a step in the right direction. It could be a lot worse if you really think it'll make a difference.

EDIT: Look at his speech, there's a lot of encouraging parts concerning the unregs comments -

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus - and non-believers

We will restore science to its rightful place, and wield technology's wonders to raise health care's quality and lower its cost. We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil to fuel our cars and run our factories. And we will transform our schools and colleges and universities to meet the demands of a new age. All this we can do. And all this we will do.

[Freaker]

I have never before, not at Olympic Games and a Football World Cup, seen so much merchandise being thrown at you in the streets in exchange for good money. And I have never seen so many people of all ages wear the large buttons little kids usually make at village festivals, carrying all thinkable variations of "I was there", a picture of the now-president, and the date.

Ah well. His speech, I thought, was good, if not his best. I did very much like him saying that nations are to be measured by what they build, not by what they destroy. I thought the poem was a bit rubbish, or that may just be the way she read it.

The atmosphere was incredible, I think many people in the US genuinely felt that Obama's victory was also their victory, which can really only be a positive thing.

Although I have to say seeing Obama dance at one of the inaugural balls on TV was a whole lot less inspiring than his speech was earlier. Oh boy.

[LonelyPilgrim]

Also, he messed up the crucial part, but then so would I with MILLIONS watching.

He didn't. Chief Justice John Roberts did. The Presidential Oath of Office contains a slightly different wording than the oath administered to all other federal employees... Justice Roberts began giving the wrong one. I'm not sure if President Obama's silence was due to being stunned, or not wanting to swear the wrong oath...

[LonelyPilgrim]

I will never understand why some athiests take such a hostile view toward people of faith. I'll acknowledge a certain irrationality in religious belief, but for crying out loud people... this does not automatically mean someone is going to make stupid decisions as a head of state. We all have irrational beliefs, albeit not all of us have *religious* irrational beliefs.

In what conceivable way will a pro-choice, pro-science, pro-multiculturalism, pro-internationalist president be negatively influenced by religious beliefs in his policy-making? I think it's quite safe to say, considering President Obama's record and public comments that he doesn't subscribe to either Biblical infallibility or the sort of narrow-minded and exclusionary head-in-the-sand sort of faith that President Bush often exhibited. So, I ask again, what negative impact are you folks so irrationally afraid of?

[Guest]

I will never understand why some athiests take such a hostile view toward people of faith.

Where's the hostility exactly?

I'll acknowledge a certain irrationality in religious belief, but for crying out loud people... this does not automatically mean someone is going to make stupid decisions as a head of state. We all have irrational beliefs, albeit not all of us have *religious* irrational beliefs.

No, it doesn't automatically mean it - no one said that - it just makes it more likely. Also, what's all this about everyone having irrational beliefs? I can't think of one that I hold.

In what conceivable way will a pro-choice, pro-science, pro-multiculturalism, pro-internationalist president be negatively influenced by religious beliefs in his policy-making? I think it's quite safe to say, considering President Obama's record and public comments that he doesn't subscribe to either Biblical infallibility or the sort of narrow-minded and exclusionary head-in-the-sand sort of faith that President Bush often exhibited. So, I ask again, what negative impact are you folks so irrationally afraid of?

At the end of the day he's a politician. What he says and what he does could very well be two completely different things. Things mentioned in his speech might effect his policy, they might not - the point is that it's all we have by way of working out what to expect from him despite any potential hypocrisy. Again I think you're engaging in hyperbole if you think atheists are irrationally (lol) afraid of any negative religious impact, it's merely a perfectly valid concern if the most powerful authority in the world who hadn't previously shown overtly religious values then starts to spout spiritual language (outside of the bit used in inauguration tradition).

[Humphrey]

I hope he just used religious language to keep the raving bigoted brain-dead faithful quiet. Because any other reason is a BAD sign of things to come. The moment ANYTHING religious (read: make-believe, nonsense, irrational) interferes with Obama's governing is the moment something bad has happened but I'll except that nothing bad has actually happened yet.

Spot the mistake.

[Haunted]

I will never understand why some athiests take such a hostile view toward people of faith. I'll acknowledge a certain irrationality in religious belief, but for crying out loud people...

I myself was not being hostile. But to answer your question, can you think of any other irrational belief in the invisible that is actively encouraged let alone described as being "virtuous"?

[Humphrey]

I will never understand why some athiests take such a hostile view toward people of faith. I'll acknowledge a certain irrationality in religious belief, but for crying out loud people...

I myself was not being hostile. But to answer your question, can you think of any other irrational belief in the invisible that is actively encouraged let alone described as being "virtuous"?

How about a belief in abstract entities like 'justice', 'the moral law', 'the equality and equal dignity of all human beings' and 'human rights'. You can enshrine these in legal documents, but in order to do that you first have to acknowledge their existence.

[SpidersfromMars]

[quote] Also, what's all this about everyone having irrational beliefs? I can't think of one that I hold.

[quote]

Wow, think a lot of ourself don't we? Honestly the fact that you can't think of one just makes it worse. Every real wacko thinks ALL their beliefs are perfectly sound. Anyway not his best speach but it was still damn good, and the event really did feel like something most Americans will still remember in quite a few years time.

[Gubbins]

But to answer your question, can you think of any other irrational belief in the invisible that is actively encouraged let alone described as being "virtuous"?

Santa? I guess people tend to grow out of that one, though.

[Humphrey]

But to answer your question, can you think of any other irrational belief in the invisible that is actively encouraged let alone described as being "virtuous"?

Santa? I guess people tend to grow out of that one, though.

I forgot to add 'right' and 'wrong'.

The non-believers bit was a bit insulting actually, he should have said atheist. You shouldn't make it sound like to not believe is how people should be defined as if it's somehow abnormal or wrong.

"Atheist" comes from "a-theos", without God, i.e. it is a negation just like "non-believer".

[Guest]

Barack Obama has been inaugurated as the 44th President of the United States, as the first African-American president and bringing an end to the dumbfuck reign of Bush.

Thoughts?

He is not really black, he is multiracial/halfcaste/EuroAfrican/Biracial or whatever the name is now. He is not black by culture - growing up in a mainly white household in a mainly asian-pacific island.

[Haunted]

How about a belief in abstract entities like 'justice', 'the moral law', 'the equality and equal dignity of all human beings' and 'human rights'. You can enshrine these in legal documents, but in order to do that you first have to acknowledge their existence.

Irrational though? There is perfectly good reason to, not so much 'believe' but, uphold the things you list. Why not mention time or space? They are abstract and invisible also, but are they irrational?

[Humphrey]

How about a belief in abstract entities like 'justice', 'the moral law', 'the equality and equal dignity of all human beings' and 'human rights'. You can enshrine these in legal documents, but in order to do that you first have to acknowledge their existence.

Irrational though? There is perfectly good reason to, not so much 'believe' but, uphold the things you list. Why not mention time or space? They are abstract and invisible also, but are they irrational?

All of the concepts I have mention can be regarded as 'irrational' or 'rational', e.g for morality (moral nihilism Vs Moral realism). The least rational one is the idea of human rights which Jeremy Benthem described as 'nonsense on stilts' and Huntington described in 'The Clash of Civilisations' as a Western peculiarity with no resonance for the rest of humanity; not surprising as the concept is founded in 'natural law'. Under legal positivism, the concept of universal human rights is untenable. Despite its irrationality we praise people and believe them virtuous for expressing their belief in the concept.