Town or city?

[MJC]

Is St Andrews a town or a city?

[Man about town]

St. Andrews is a town not a city. The only cities in Scotland are Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness and Sterling. Perth and Elgin were formerly considered cities but do not currently hold that status.

[FunkyBanana]

Not to be a pedant (oh, the irony in this of all places!), but it's Stirling, unless you mean the furniture shop And I know that Brechin is also a city - there may be others I'm not aware of

[What?]

There are indeed six cities in Scotland. The old belief that a cathedral denotes a city applies to England only.

Brechin isn't a city! Brechin City FC were formed on the City Road in Brechin when their two feeder clubs merged. Similarly St Andrews City Road does not a city make.

[Man about town]

A list of all the locations in the UK with city status can be found at http://www.dca.gov.uk/constitution/city ... .htm#part6 - thanks for the spelling correction.

[ojk6]

Historically it was a cathedral that made a city. Hence why Brechin was referred to as such and sometimes still is. The same could be said of St Andrews, I suppose. These days, however, a cathedral is not the deciding factor, or even a factor at all it seems (if I remember correctly there was some sort of 'millennium competition' to make some new cities).

[RandomMusings]

There was indeed a 'competition' , as you put it, to create a new city for the Millennium (or was it the Queen's jubilee?). If my limited memory serves me right, that 'city' created through this monumental occasion was Preston.

[Cain]

Regarding millennium cities - some wag decided to nominate Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee for city status. They were all accepted, apart from Dundee, that being the only city that actually had the appropriate documentation identifying it as a city.

[Ruru Hedgehog]

Don't be fooled by the popular pretense that St Andrews is just another Scottish town!
St Andrews is in fact another planet, another world with a culture vastly different from anywhere else on the globe and us strange and wonderful creatures known as St Andrews students. We even speak a different language (try using popular terms such as "Bop!" or "bubble" elsewhere, and nobody will get it in the right context).

...
...

What? My imagination has never been wrong before...

[ascii]

There was indeed a 'competition' , as you put it, to create a new city for the Millennium (or was it the Queen's jubilee?). If my limited memory serves me right, that 'city' created through this monumental occasion was Preston.

There were two competitions. In Scotland, Inverness beat Stirling (amongst others) to become a City to mark the Millennium. Stirling reapplied, and won city status to mark the Queen's golden jubilee.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2002/03/1273

[ojk6]

I don't know why you chose to put "competition" in inverted commas, as if it was an inappropriate word I'd chosen. It's the word on the (now defunct) Department for Constitutional Affair's own website: http://www.dca.gov.uk/constitution/city/cityhome.htm

[sqril]

Dunfermline is also a city, and the fact is now proudly plastered on all the signs entering Dline 'welcome to the city and royal burgh of Dunfermline'. The old charter was rediscovered a few years ago.

[Frank]

Dunfermline is also a city, and the fact is now proudly plastered on all the signs entering Dline 'welcome to the city and royal burgh of Dunfermline'. The old charter was rediscovered a few years ago.

Sources! I've been struggling with this one for years. On discovering the DCA website I'd felt it was 'solved' (in favour of 'not a city'), but I'm told there exists a book (in our own Special Collections!) which details the 'battle' for cityship in Dunfermline during the 19th century. As it stands, it's rampantly foolish to have such indecision on the matter. The 'most official' websites available seem to list only six Scottish cities quite authoratatively, yet Dunfermline still insists on those signs...!

We need sources!

[Delts]

Was Dunblane at one time not referred to as a city (Cathedral fun)?

[ascii]

Was Dunblane at one time not referred to as a city (Cathedral fun)?

Dunlane refers to itself as a city because of the Cathedral, but in Scotland that doesn't make it a city.

[Anon.]

Isn't St Andrews a burgh?

[Delts]

Isn't St Andrews a burgh?

Burgh is just an extra to it's status if it is. I come from Haddington (the first Royal Burgh) which is still a town according to it's signs. It was however once the third largest city in Scotland.

[Fawksie]

Isn't St Andrews a burgh?

It's a former Royal Burgh. The Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973 abolished Royal Burghs in 1975.

[Anon.]

Isn't St Andrews a burgh?

Burgh is just an extra to it's status if it is. I come from Haddington (the first Royal Burgh) which is still a town according to it's signs. It was however once the third largest city in Scotland.

You did it twice so it looks like it wasn't just a mistype.

You really do need to know the difference between "its" and "it's", and when to use them, if you want to avoid looking like a bit of a thicko.

[orudge]

Kirkwall (in Orkney) is a City and Royal Burgh according to the "welcome" signs, and apparently due to some old Royal Charter or Proclamation or something from the 15th century or so. Officially it's not a city these days, of course, but historically-speaking, it is, despite its small size.