Starfields... flogging a dead horse?

[donpablo]

Well the not so surprising return of Starfields has been announced. The surprise is though the lack of any line up this year.

4 acts, only 1 I have heard of and even then wouldn't part with a fiver to see him let alone 35 quid (plus 1.40 bf). So after checking out / researching the other artists on youtube I wouldn't even pay a fiver for all of them. Trend music at it's best. Commerical electro give me a break. Chris Lake I do like and enjoy his music but no one else I know seems to have heard of him.

Is the committee taking us for mugs though? How does a small event with 4 announced names cost so much???? And more to the point, is this more to be announced really a cunning marketing ploy or are they are in a flap because they can't get anyone booked?

This year, we are also stepping up the game when it comes to visual and sensory display.

My advice to anyone responsible for Starfields (and I know some of you must be reading this) is to step up your game with the music and acts! It seems to me you are more interested in smoke, lasers, marketing, trends, imagery and creating a brand rather than the core acts which is the key to actually putting on good 'festivals.' I suspect you are all well meaning and do genuinely think you are putting on a good event but you live in cuckoo land. I wouldnt be surprised if this is some sort of revenge of the kids that got no say in their high school dance because their ideas were genuinely unsuitable. At best this is just your own idea of a good night and not anyone elses (well there always will be a few).

Someone needed to say it. But anyway I don't want to digress into an all out rant because my opinions are best kept to myself. The problem I see here is though unless there is some super massive act actually booked that we haven't been told about then is anyone really gonna pay that price? 36.40 is outragous! Even last years tame line up far outstripped this yet I see no difference in the price real terms.

Why would anyone pay that when on the exact same night in Glasgow for more or less the same price there is a Fantazia festival with 5 arenas full of amazing acts, or for those that really don't mind a bit of a trek to see some real WORLD CLASS DJ's there is Godskitchen in Birmingham... I personally hope to take the trip down to brummy land and it's only a mere 17 pounds (plus travel) for many times the atmosphere, music and performance. And something you will remember and tell your friends for many years.

Just a snippet of the line up from GK on the same night.
Markus Schulz (8th best DJ 2008)
Sander Van Doorn (13th)
Menno De Jong (48th)
Jon O'Bir (136th)

Before anyone even says Starfields has a limitied budget, the venue for Godskitchen only holds 1500 people so it is not massive by any stretch of the imagination, yet can budget for 17 pound a head, whilst it has to pay around 10 top acts and is open til 6am! (Venue 1 holds 1000 as we are regularly informed) No one in the Starfields line up is even the top 150 dj list so to say it is world class is just wrong. The other real problem I see is that why would anyone want to bother with Starfields when the union is already gonna be full to the brim at a fraction of the cost. As it was pointed out to me that people don't care about the entertainment (sad if it is true) as long as they have a 'good' night then why pay 36.40 when u can get the same level of entertainment at the union for what is presumably only gonna cost a fiver at most?

And what about events later on in the year? With Starfields being in freshers week we are either again being shortchanged or asked to give up one night of freshers in exchange for Starfields or vice versa. There is no option of doing a full freshers week and then Starfields now. (And as Starfields was 2 nights last year thats us technically down 2 nights)

Yes the line up has failed to impress me for yet another year at least and my money goes to support the Birmingham economy this year not St Andrews! (shudder). And please no 'if you don't like it don't go' replies. It's not clever. I'm not going. I'm trying to highlight a genuine problem (at least imo) not start pointless internet forum fights. Of course if i was to post this after an unsuccesful Starfields I would be accused of opportunism so let it be on record before the event I have reservations for its success and future.

Jeez I should write critic articles for newspapers or something at this rate. TheSaint looking for anyone? Hmmm

[RedCelt69]

Just a snippet of the line up from GK on the same night.
Markus Schulz (8th best DJ 2008)
Sander Van Doorn (13th)
Menno De Jong (48th)
Jon O'Bir (136th)

Personally, I wouldn't cross the street to hear any of them. Then again, I'm not their target audience; I belong to an era when DJs had the good grace to blush if ever they were foolish enough to pass themselves off as musicians. I am curious, though, how (and why) they are ranked. What with it being down to personal taste, 'n' all...

If you don't like the lineup, don't go. Sorted.

Jeez I should write critic articles for newspapers or something at this rate. TheSaint looking for anyone? Hmmm

They'd need to employ someone to (heavily) edit your writing for spelling, grammar and punctuation.

[d_24]

Jeez I should write critic articles for newspapers or something at this rate. TheSaint looking for anyone? Hmmm

They'd need to employ someone to (heavily) edit your writing for spelling, grammar and punctuation.

And intellect.

[RedCelt69]

And intellect.

I was pulling my punches.

[donpablo]

As I already said I am not going.

The poll is conducted by DJMag, an internationally sold magazine, every year. You should be able to find it in your local newsagent if you're interested but I doubt you are. Whilst not perfect like pretty much any poll it's generally accepted as the fairest and most accurate representation of who is 'the best'. Because of the international market it gives a better world wide opinion of what constitutes world class.

Yes the term DJ is pretty much lost in translation these days but they are all producers in their own right and hence musicians.

From dictionary.com

mu⋅si⋅cian
  /myuˈzɪʃən/ [myoo-zish-uhn]
–noun
1. a person who makes music a profession, esp. as a performer of music.
2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

Personally I prefer the term artist but what can you do?

They'd need to employ someone to (heavily) edit your writing for spelling, grammar and punctuation.

It is shockingly bad at times although not intentional. I should know better. But thanks for pulling the punches, you clearly have more class than d_24.

d_24 wrote:And intellect.

Please enlighten me where my intellect failed? I'm expecting more than 2 words. You seem to have a lot of short sniping opinions but no solutions. I really can't wait to hear your pearls of wisdom.

I would hazard a guess that the 2 of you live together and it's either one or the two of you behind those endearing guest posts?

[RedCelt69]

As I already said I am not going.

Then your non-attendance is statement-enough, surely? How many of the acts at this year's Edinburgh Festival did you not go to? Where are your criticisms of those?

The poll is conducted by DJMag, an internationally sold magazine, every year. You should be able to find it in your local newsagent if you're interested but I doubt you are. Whilst not perfect like pretty much any poll it's generally accepted as the fairest and most accurate representation of who is 'the best'. Because of the international market it gives a better world wide opinion of what constitutes world class.

I've never been one to allow others to dictate my tastes for me. As I suggested previously, personal tastes are precisely that. So how are they ranked? Do they drop a place by putting a CD back in the wrong case?

From dictionary.com

mu⋅si⋅cian
  /myuˈzɪʃən/ [myoo-zish-uhn]
–noun
1. a person who makes music a profession, esp. as a performer of music.
2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

By the first definition, the CEO of every record label could be called a musician. If you remove the ", esp." then DJs fail the definition as they don't perform (ie play) a musical instrument. By the second definition it would take very little quibbling to argue that someone who is unable to read music or play an instrument cannot be called "skilled in music".

Please enlighten me where my intellect failed?

Well...

I would hazard a guess that the 2 of you live together and it's either one or the two of you behind those endearing guest posts?

...that's one example. For others, see your original post.

[donpablo]

Where to begin. Well since I did not not receive the group email telling me how amazing the Edinburgh Festival is and telling me to check out the website, that must have slipped me by. Maybe you got it? I did get one regarding Starfields though. Maybe you didn't get it? To answer your question though I saw none of the acts. I'm sure if I was more informed I could come up with a huge list of flaws, but that isn't comparing like with like so we can move on. Also it is in my interests to improve the St Andrews experience if possible even if that means complaining despite how whiny I might sound so tough.

I don't let other people dictate my taste, the poll I mentioned just goes to show it's not just my taste (and there are plenty of ranks I disagree with). Not to be completely ignorant before posting, as I said, I checked out the artists I was not already aware of and found them not to be to my taste and not to be the tastes of people that share my taste and people I know that even have completely different tastes. Have you never discovered a new band or film or anything because of a recommendation based on another persons taste? Just for a moment think about the line up for Starfields. Does this line up seem like a recommendation? Or, a tried and tested popular line up? I'm all for new artists but having a whole bunch of up and comers for the cost of veterans is ridiculous. We can argue about the line up and peoples tastes all day though and never come to a compromise. There are plenty of other problems which I think are valid I have also pointed out.

Moving on, it's not a difficult concept a poll. You vote for who you like, the votes close, they count them up, then rank them in order. To be further pedantic I would say a CEO is a businessman. Just because his industry may happen to be the music industry doesnt mean he is a musician, that isn't his profession, he is still a businessman. He has little to do with the making of the music and probably little to do with the marketing or selling of it. It's like saying the CEO of American Airlines is a Pilot or a Steward(ess) (although without looking that up maybe he was at one point.)

You would be surprised with how many DJ's are very talented musicians. One example I will give you is Mike Foyle.

Having gained a Degree and National Diploma in Music Technology, Mike is now working on experimental sonic arts projects, the most notable of which is a project designed to integrate music with audio based brainwave entrainment and biofeedback.

He is also a composer and pretty bloody good pianist. I can't remember what grade it is he plays at but it's something that I pressume means it's quite high. Now the twist is he has releases on Markus Schulz's record label and has had his work remixed by him. I also know plenty of people that could be considered 'up and coming' with the right marketing behind them and the lack of credibility to sell out. The majority have all studied music and production it various institutes and of course DJ, but they do it mainly for the love of it not to be famous. They certainly aren't idiots that load CD's all night.

I think you have the stereotypical view of DJ's as people that just play music but there is more to it. I'm not surprised though there is a lot of examples of DJ's that just do that and nothing else. Those that are tone deaf and what not and couldn't mix a bag of sweets. They give the term DJ a bad name. But I'm used to this arguement, heard it a million times.

And apologies for my poor detective work. I noticed the timestamps and made a convenient albeit inconclusive assumption. Also further apologies for my poor use of the quote function. The last bit was aimed at d_24 not yourself.

[Medievalist]

I feel like Donpablo gets picked on an awful lot for someone who comes across as extremely easy going lol.

It makes me laugh, but also feel bad for him.

[donpablo]

That makes me feel a lot better. I was warned newbies get picked on and I haven't gone out my way to keep a low profile. Nor am I setting out to draw attention to myself but I like to give my take on things. I am quite easy going so I'll just put it down to hazing the new guy. Ahh you guys! *shakes fist*

[schmod]

Where do you draw the line between 'DJ' and 'Producer'?

I don't think that anybody would argue that Moby, BT, or Daft Punk aren't talented musicians, even if you dislike their particular brand of music. However, their live performances *are* more or less DJ acts.

[RedCelt69]

Also it is in my interests to improve the St Andrews experience if possible even if that means complaining despite how whiny I might sound so tough.

Whilst your intention to improve the St Andrews experience is laudable, it doesn't follow that last year's 1047th-ranked DJ will be this year's 1047th-ranked DJ. Even if you hold such high regards for rankings... which, as I've already suggested, are a poor way to judge if you are going to have a good time on the night.

I would say a CEO is a businessman. Just because his industry may happen to be the music industry doesnt mean he is a musician, that isn't his profession, he is still a businessman. He has little to do with the making of the music and probably little to do with the marketing or selling of it. It's like saying the CEO of American Airlines is a Pilot or a Steward(ess) (although without looking that up maybe he was at one point.)

I don't disagree. However, it was you who quoted the dictionary definition, not I. It didn't support your argument.

You would be surprised with how many DJ's are very talented musicians. One example I will give you is Mike Foyle.

It might be worth your time enrolling in a module covering logic this semester. Just because one (or several) DJs are also musicians, it most certainly does not follow that all DJs are musicians. Which is what you claimed.

I feel like Donpablo gets picked on an awful lot for someone who comes across as extremely easy going lol.

and

I was warned newbies get picked on and I haven't gone out my way to keep a low profile.

Welcome to the internet. No jacket required... but a thick skin comes in handy.

[Medievalist]

Welcome to the internet. No jacket required... but a thick skin comes in handy.

Ah yes, the internet... the one place where the physically weak can become bullies lol.


[And I'm not calling redcelt phsycially weak, since clearly, I dont know him.]

[RedCelt69]

[And I'm not calling redcelt phsycially weak, since clearly, I dont know him.]

Fiscally or physically? Yes and no. And I'm certainly not a bully. By any definition you care to choose.

[Medievalist]

[And I'm not calling redcelt phsycially weak, since clearly, I dont know him.]

Fiscally or physically? Yes and no. And I'm certainly not a bully. By any definition you care to choose.

Wasn't calling you one. I was just adding on to your "It's the internet" comment... in my head it was funny.

[donpablo]

While there will obviously be changes in position from one year to another, people that have a genuine interest that vote don't significantly change their opinions year to year. It's not some teenage magazine poll of who the best boy band is. It's usually a slow, gradual change unlike your Top40 chart where you can have a #1 new entry one week and then it will be out off the charts the next week. You can have a good night in the most unlikley places but usually there is not an expectation that you will have the best night of your life. I am simply challenging the rhetoric were being fed. We have gone from MoS, debatably the premier name in 'dance' music in the UK, and the fantastic Hed Kandi to booking small acts few people have heard of that we're being told are going to be the next biggest thing presumably by the labels that are marketing them, hmmm.

Starfields began in 2007 and has since become the premier music event in St Andrews. With the headline 'Ministry of Sound would never come to St Andrews' back in our first event (2007), the quality of dance music at St Andrews events has grown dramatically. Starfields '09 will be our fourthand most ambitious event to date, with our best lineup, most ludicrous sound and light display and the best value for money for students.

Where is the growth? Where is the ambition? Where is this 'best' line up? Who cares about ludicrous sound and light displays? (Can you even have a sound display?) Where is the value for money? I want good acts and good music.

I would say a CEO is a businessman. Just because his industry may happen to be the music industry doesnt mean he is a musician, that isn't his profession, he is still a businessman. He has little to do with the making of the music and probably little to do with the marketing or selling of it. It's like saying the CEO of American Airlines is a Pilot or a Steward(ess) (although without looking that up maybe he was at one point.)

I don't disagree. However, it was you who quoted the dictionary definition, not I. It didn't support your argument.

How did you come to the conclusion that I didn't support my arguement? Pretty much clear as day that, but since you need further assistance I shall repeat it with some bold and further clarification (the internet equivalent of me saying it s-l-o-w-l-y).

Yes the term DJ is pretty much lost in translation these days but they (the aforementioned DJ's) are all producers in their own right and hence musicians.

From dictionary.com

mu⋅si⋅cian
  /myuˈzɪʃən/ [myoo-zish-uhn]
–noun
1. a person who makes music a profession, esp. as a performer of music.
2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

It was certainly not a claim that all DJ's are musicians. You will find most, if not all, the top DJ's are producers hence make music and hence musicians.

You would be surprised with how many DJ's are very talented musicians. One example I will give you is Mike Foyle.

It might be worth your time enrolling in a module covering logic this semester. Just because one (or several) DJs are also musicians, it most certainly does not follow that all DJs are musicians. Which is what you claimed.

No it wasn't. Was the module you are suggesting one you failed yourself? Wow way to go making yourself look like a total ass there

Welcome to the internet. No jacket required... but a thick skin comes in handy.

I thought you said thick skin not... (You can all work that out yourselves, most of you anyway)

Fiscally or physically? Yes and no. And I'm certainly not a bully. By any definition you care to choose.

Really just picking up on small minor typos shows you to be the sad petty man you are. I would agree that, whilst I certainly don't feel bullied, you are certainly exhibiting some classic bully behaviour. For shame.

[Frank]

It strikes me that the earliest STARFIELDS, if I remember correctly, was likely run by some chappies who already had excellent industry connections and who were sufficiently skilled at pushing things through.

That the later STARFIELDS have an arguably smaller repertoire suggests to me that the organisational team are surely hitting snags. Perhaps they don't know the right people, perhaps they simply aren't as skilled? Who knows? The original was pretty remarkable, the rest diluted. I doubt it's flogging a dead horse. The analogy doesn't work. Sounds more like a one-trick-pony. But if folks enjoy that trick...

[Senethro]

I don't care about any of this shit but by golly I've still dredged up my password just so I can tell you so!

[RedCelt69]

While there will obviously be changes in position from one year to another, people that have a genuine interest that vote don't significantly change their opinions year to year.

Opinions don't change? Really? Do the abilities of the DJs?

I would say a CEO is a businessman. Just because his industry may happen to be the music industry doesnt mean he is a musician, that isn't his profession, he is still a businessman.

And yet the dictionary definition you provided would say otherwise.

It was certainly not a claim that all DJ's are musicians. You will find most, if not all, the top DJ's are producers hence make music and hence musicians.

Now that's just taking all the fun out of contradicting you; when you contradict yourself.

Really just picking up on small minor typos shows you to be the sad petty man you are.

Humour fail.

I would agree that, whilst I certainly don't feel bullied, you are certainly exhibiting some classic bully behaviour. For shame.

Yeeeeeeeees.

[donpablo]

While there will obviously be changes in position from one year to another, people that have a genuine interest that vote don't significantly change their opinions year to year.

Opinions don't change? Really? Do the abilities of the DJs?

Who said opinions don't change?
Yes really.
Of course they do.

I would say a CEO is a businessman. Just because his industry may happen to be the music industry doesnt mean he is a musician, that isn't his profession, he is still a businessman.

And yet the dictionary definition you provided would say otherwise.

Right I'm going to admit fail on this one... how about a more appropriate definition we can both agree on or how about a standard dictionary since a lot of words are open to interpretation? The previous definition really depends on your interpretation of profession. I'm inclined to think it meant 'makes music as a profession' but since it doesnt say that, I'll conceed as thats how I was reading it.

mu·si·cian (myōō-zĭsh'ən)
n. One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music.

It was certainly not a claim that all DJ's are musicians. You will find most, if not all, the top DJ's are producers hence make music and hence musicians.

Now that's just taking all the fun out of contradicting you; when you contradict yourself.

Nice try.

Really just picking up on small minor typos shows you to be the sad petty man you are.

Humour fail.

Indeed.

I would agree that, whilst I certainly don't feel bullied, you are certainly exhibiting some classic bully behaviour. For shame.

Yeeeeeeeees.

I have to say I don't really get the reference this time.


At least Frank understands what I'm getting at. I think? Flogging a dead horse certainly isn't the best analogy but it was what I came up with at the time. Wouldn't even say one trick pony. It sounds the same every year from the marketing maybe that's what you meant but it's certainly not the same quality of the first or last.

I understand it's at Craigtoun Park this year which google maps tells me is a few miles outside st andrews in the middle of nowhere. Plus for noise restrictions, negative for easy to get to location. Actually isn't that part of the caravan park? Eep...

[Delts]

Starfields, just don't bother. Over priced nonsense. The music in the union on the Saturday will be far better. For one, it's an actual band.

And damn, Red Celt has returned...