Home

TheSinner.net

A new user's guide to the Sinner

This message board is for discussing anything in any way remotely connected with St Andrews, the University or just anything you want. Welcome!

A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby bdw on Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:10 pm

Seeing as (a) there will hopefully be a new influx of users in the next week or so and (b) I am bored, I thought it might be useful to compile some introductory guidelines as to the use of this fine website. Feel free to add any that I have missed out.

Procedural guide to the Sinner

1. Originality of discussion

Not less than once per year a thread shall be started on each of the following topics: the May Ball; the membership policies of the KK; STAR radio; the SNP; library etiquette at exam time. Please do try to build up a proper strop before posting on these threads in order to ensure that it hits the ton as quickly as possible. It is respectfully advised that previous tilts at these particular windmills be studied in advance to ensure that the chances of any original argument is restricted to the extent reasonably practicable.

2. Dialogue with elected student officers

The Sinner shall strive to be a democratic forum, permitting the general student populace to praise or criticise their elected representatives. Without so much of the praising part. Precedent requires that criticism be delivered anonymously, stumbling oafishly along the borders of defamation and correct grammatical usage (vide infra). Please note that it is considered rather bad form to actually have a valid point that you are happy to put your name to. Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the criticism, tradition dictates that the required response from the elected official shall be to entirely ignore the content of the complaint and instead to invite the plaintiff to avail him or herself of the opportunity to carry out the task personally. It is recommended that the response be phrased as crudely as possible to maximise the chances of other people piling in on all sides and tonning that mutha up.

3. Societal harmony

It is believed that it is in everyone’s interests that an inclusive message be promoted on the board. To this end, all users shall be obliged to get knee-deep into a yah witchhunt as soon as any of the following is mentioned: polo; holidays outside the UK; Ma Bells; pashminas; private dining clubs; the Conservative Party; Surrey and the other Hem Kenties; selective in-breeding. One user shall be designated as the rehabilitator of the yah’s reputation (not before page 4, mind). His or her rallying cry shall be “reverse snobbery” and shall thereby stoke the fires to ensure that the argument will see-saw back and forth merrily for another week or so.

4. Effective communication skills

New users should endeavour to adopt the most bleeding edge contemporary written style possible. It is up to the users themselves to judge where they wish to place themselves along such spectrum of mangled English. The more conservative may opt to adopt Americanisms, despite hailing from Paisley, while those of a bolder hue may 4go any grmmtcl ba6 wotsoeva, promulg8ing there st8ments 10daciously thru an asin9 attchmnt 2 txt spk, udigg.

This will not only have the effect of immediately announcing such user's arrival on the scene to the existing user base but also to provide such user base with the opportunity to complain self-righteously about the decline of standards among young people today. That the complainants may be 19 themselves shall be of no consequence. While offering the basis for protracted and surprisingly heated debate about the value of adherence to certain notional standards of written English, the topic may be felt by discerning users to be ultimately rather too dry and elevated for meaningful engagement, innit.

5. Prohibited language

While most instances of foul and abusive language tend to be tolerated but not embraced by the online community, the use of the following phrases shall be met by the most robust of opposition: “Prince William’s University”; “Saint Andrews” (or about a dozen other spellings); “Film Studies”; “Donald Findlay”; “New Hall Girl Wanted for Double Bed”; “Paul”.

6. Discussion of current affairs
All users of the board shall be committed to analysing and memorialising their comments on key current events, in order that history shall be better able to reflect upon their sagacious views. To this end, users shall eschew the discussion of such frivolous topics as general elections, the conflict between nations, the passing of great statesmen and financial crises, preferring instead to describe the poster above for 25 interminable pages.

7. Fostering a supportive culture for differing opinions

It’s not all highbrow debate however. Now and again, users are encouraged to kick back and contribute to a melting pot of personal preferences, as represented by topics such as: “The worst town in the UK”; “Best album ever”; or “What’s your favourite jacket potato filling”. Naturally, each opinion is accorded the respect it deserves. Occasionally this even scales the heights of grudging acceptance. The sensible user will suggest something that no more than a half dozen people on the planet would recognise and subsequently dismiss all other alternatives as being too mainstream for his or her rarified tastes. Levels of antagonism over certain responses will be blown up out of all proportion to the topic at hand so only the courageous user should even contemplate the use of the double bluff ("Best song ever? Tamsin Archer - Sleeping Satellites. Fact"). It is believed that the discussion “What’s the best restaurant in St Andrews” even carried a bodycount.

8. Inter-disciplinary knowledge sharing

From time to time, a user should seek the confirmation of the Sinner community that such user’s chosen course of study (IR, medicine, history, take your bloody pick) is in fact the most difficult and demanding subject offered by the university. This is in no way a painfully self-indulgent and agonisingly dull waste of pixels. Users should seek to adopt a blinkered view on the topic and to wilfully ignore any possible common ground (other than when some poor unfortunate brings up the myriad complexities of an Art History degree, whereupon all users shall be required to fall into line behind a united front of scorn). Around the point that the argument is raging through its fifth page, one user shall be required to point out the futility of the whole exercise. Tradition dictates that this plea for common sense shall be ignored, with the same user staunchly defending the merits of his or her Latin degree two pages on.

9. Indulgence of minority interest groups

The Sinner prides itself on the voice that it gives to small societies, giving any that can justify it their own discussion board. This affords the likes of Regs’ residents the opportunity to break their monastic silence and actually post something in 2009. Of course the users well understand that the powers that be can only do so much for discussion boards that struggle to garner any traffic, which goes to explain why there was such unanimous support for the decision to close down the graveyard-like Union Board.

10. Relevance to all stages of an academic career

The following is a cut out and keep guide to the kind of topics that each year group should regard as their bread and butter:

First years should stick to the following style guides:
“Where is the [Purdie][Old Union Diner][Quad][beach][bloody nightclub]?”
“Why does St Andrews have no [McDonalds][station][Olympic swimming pool][Harvey Nicks][sun]?”
“How do I select my [modules][academic parents][societies][hall][arse from my elbow]?”

Second years:

“First years don’t have a clue. While I’m here though, where is the [Purdie][Old Union Diner][Quad][beach][bloody nightclub]?”
“How do I get into [honours][another university][my flatmate]?”

Third years shall be the battery hens of the Sinner. Their posts shall be solely preoccupied with acquiring academic children and then nesting for their brood. Once the chicks have flown the nest, they shall hit a menopausal state in which, frankly, anything goes.

Fourth years:
“I have had [the time of my life][enough][your mum]”
“One more year as an undergrad and then I shall be [off][back for more][completely unemployable][to all extents and purposes, an alcoholic]”
“Graduation ball tickets needed!!!!” [to be posted at least nine months in advance]

Graduates (who shall by law constitute not less than 85% of regular Sinner users at any time):

“The standard [of education][of pubs][of bop][of music][units of measurement] were better in my day”
“Things have been going downhill since the [introduction of tuition fees][Stables stopped its roller-disco night][abolition of single sex halls][bloody Jacobites][day I left]”
“Film Studies?!?!?!”



Any other Sinner quirks I have missed?
bdw
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby orudge on Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:16 pm

Image
orudge
Administrator

User avatar
 
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:43 am
Location: St Andrews, Fife

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Frank on Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:03 pm

Image
Frank
User avatar
 
Posts: 1326
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:39 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Lukey2 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:29 pm

According to last year's RAE results, St.Andrews has the third best film studies department in the UK. The only competitors were Warwick and East Anglia, which both have schools well in excess of the six people we keep in ours.

It might just be the fact that I study it, but I don't see how film studies is inherently more ridiculous than any other arts subject. Given that the moving image has already become more important than the written word, film actually has a claim to being the most useful of all the useless arts subjects.
Lukey2
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Medievalist on Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:50 pm

Lukey2 wrote:Given that the moving image has already become more important than the written word, film actually has a claim to being the most useful of all the useless arts subjects.


That is a bold statement.
Fear No Man
Medievalist
User avatar
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby wild_quinine on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:17 pm

Medievalist wrote:
Lukey2 wrote:Given that the moving image has already become more important than the written word, film actually has a claim to being the most useful of all the useless arts subjects.


That is a bold statement.


It would be, if the written word was worth anything these days. :roll:
wild_quinine
User avatar
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 11:57 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby donpablo on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:31 pm

Well they do say a picture is worth a thousand words :P
donpablo
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:16 am

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby RedCelt69 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:37 pm

donpablo wrote:Well they do say a picture is worth a thousand words :P

I wouldn't rely on that when asked to submit a 2000 word essay.
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and celt
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed

Red Celt's Blog
RedCelt69
User avatar
 
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:28 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Lukey2 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:51 pm

Medievalist wrote:
Lukey2 wrote:Given that the moving image has already become more important than the written word, film actually has a claim to being the most useful of all the useless arts subjects.


That is a bold statement.


Mostly intended as a quantitative claim (i.e. people across the world are spending more time watching than they are reading).
Lukey2
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby RedCelt69 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:12 pm

Lukey2 wrote:
Medievalist wrote:
Lukey2 wrote:Given that the moving image has already become more important than the written word, film actually has a claim to being the most useful of all the useless arts subjects.


That is a bold statement.


Mostly intended as a quantitative claim (i.e. people across the world are spending more time watching than they are reading).

It really depends upon what you mean by "more important". Because it is viewed by more people? Is Strictly Come Dancing more important than Panorama?
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and celt
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed

Red Celt's Blog
RedCelt69
User avatar
 
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:28 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Lukey2 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:47 pm

Maybe this should be made into its own thread?

Having no clue what either of those dances are, let me hazard a response. Whether you love it or hate it, the moving image plays a more formative role in more lives than the written word does. What other criteria of importance did you have in mind? If you are among the 85% who have already graduated, would it be crass if I guessed you took your degree in English?
Lukey2
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby donpablo on Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:49 pm

Dare we bring quantity versus quality into this? I think I have, oh well :laugh:

RedCelt69 wrote:
donpablo wrote:Well they do say a picture is worth a thousand words :P


I wouldn't rely on that when asked to submit a 2000 word essay.


It would indeed be a brave / foolish man (or indeed woman) that tried that one. I'd buy them a drink just for making me laugh my ass off tho. Any takers?
donpablo
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:16 am

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby RedCelt69 on Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:46 am

Lukey2 wrote:Having no clue what either of those dances are

I love the idea that Panorama is a dance. ^.^

Strictly Come Dancing is a TV show wherein "celebrities" partner up with professional dancers and have a dance-off followed by an audience vote resulting in the elimination of one pair of dancers each week. Sadly, it is very popular.

Panorama is a weekly issue-based current-event programme.

I've no idea of the exact viewing-figures, however I can confidently say that Panorama attracts far fewer viewers. Hence my question; is Strictly Come Dancing "more important" than Panorama?

Lukey2 wrote:Whether you love it or hate it, the moving image plays a more formative role in more lives than the written word does. What other criteria of importance did you have in mind?

I think that I'd have used the phrase "more influential". Importance is too woolly a concept which is why I sought clarification. To use another analogy, I'd say that A Brief History of Time is more important than The Da Vinci Code... as for which is more influential... based on the number of people who read it?

Basically, I don't dispute the power of the moving image. I'd assume that more people have seen the film Troy than have read The Iliad - leading to the majority perception that the siege of Troy lasted a couple of days rather than 10 years. In this (admittedly extreme) example, the book is still more important than the film. It is also more influential.

Lukey2 wrote:If you are among the 85% who have already graduated, would it be crass if I guessed you took your degree in English?

I'm amongst the alleged 15% and no, I'm studying philosophy.
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and celt
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed

Red Celt's Blog
RedCelt69
User avatar
 
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:28 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Lukey2 on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:08 am

RedCelt69 wrote:
Lukey2 wrote:Having no clue what either of those dances are

I love the idea that Panorama is a dance. ^.^

Strictly Come Dancing is a TV show wherein "celebrities" partner up with professional dancers and have a dance-off followed by an audience vote resulting in the elimination of one pair of dancers each week. Sadly, it is very popular.

Panorama is a weekly issue-based current-event programme.

I've no idea of the exact viewing-figures, however I can confidently say that Panorama attracts far fewer viewers. Hence my question; is Strictly Come Dancing "more important" than Panorama?

Lukey2 wrote:Whether you love it or hate it, the moving image plays a more formative role in more lives than the written word does. What other criteria of importance did you have in mind?

I think that I'd have used the phrase "more influential". Importance is too woolly a concept which is why I sought clarification. To use another analogy, I'd say that A Brief History of Time is more important than The Da Vinci Code... as for which is more influential... based on the number of people who read it?

Basically, I don't dispute the power of the moving image. I'd assume that more people have seen the film Troy than have read The Iliad - leading to the majority perception that the siege of Troy lasted a couple of days rather than 10 years. In this (admittedly extreme) example, the book is still more important than the film. It is also more influential.

Lukey2 wrote:If you are among the 85% who have already graduated, would it be crass if I guessed you took your degree in English?

I'm amongst the alleged 15% and no, I'm studying philosophy.


Wow...a disagreement on the sinner between two people who are actually in St.Andrews. This should probably be a violation of one of bdw rules.

I concede that important is an imprecise word, but I take serious issue with your analogy. You are operating with a high culture vs. mass culture dichotomy. Given that your examples are the Iliad vs. bad TV, you definitely aren't wrong. But what you seem to be ignoring is that brilliant films like Citizen Kane and Battleship Potemkin are capable of the same lofty heights as Homer and Co. Your argument could easily be reversed if we were considering that piece of shit Dan Brown novel everyone has been reading vs. a great film like Children of Men. Whatever we take "important" to mean, you cannot judge the superior importance of the written word based on a handful of masterpieces, particularly not when great directors can produce masterpieces that are just as impressive.
Last edited by Lukey2 on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lukey2
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Oli on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:25 am

My mate delivered the baby in Children of Men. (He's a CGI editor; the baby wasn't real).
Oli
 
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Super Jock on Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:05 pm

I think the general contempt towards film studies derives from how easy the product is to consume. Where as literature tends to be a trial for some to read, for a number of reasons.

I'll make my example from a further extreme: Physics gets more respect from the fact more people struggle to understand it, than it's contributions to the world. (For example few people thank Quantum Mechanics for their mobile phones, laptops and computers, but respect QM because they couldn't come to terms with it, where as I can read a paper on it with not a lot of bother. I probably would fail to find the under lying meaning to a great poets work.

What I mean is the fraction of people who can understand a film is higher than those who understand literature. It's designed that way to be entertaining. Just be happy that the film industry makes more money than most literature authors. Harry Potter is not literature.
Super Jock
User avatar
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:47 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Jono on Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:30 pm

Lukey2 wrote:According to last year's RAE results, St.Andrews has the third best film studies department in the UK. The only competitors were Warwick and East Anglia, which both have schools well in excess of the six people we keep in ours.

It might just be the fact that I study it, but I don't see how film studies is inherently more ridiculous than any other arts subject. Given that the moving image has already become more important than the written word, film actually has a claim to being the most useful of all the useless arts subjects.



Arguably. But not.

If Film Studies had a desirable vocational aspect behind its syllabus, it would be the only degree accepted by media organisations and newspapers when looking for graduates. It isn't.

All arts subjects arguably teach you the same basic thing; the ability to read evidence, sift through the rubbish, pull out the important bits, and come to conclusions without the tutor holding your hand too much. Film studies as much as any other.

The difference comes down to academic rigour. Or more precisely, the perception of academic rigour. History, for example, has been taught in universities for centuries. It is based on a plethora of primary material which has been well worn by academic scholarship. This in turn acts as a measure by which all subsequent academic research can be judged. The modern arts subjects don't have that background.

Consequently, If I was to set up a history department at Jono Polytechnic, it would be immediately obvious to everyone whether or not my department was any good. In order to avoid this, I re-name the subject "Past Studies". Suddenly, I'm the top university in the country for Past Studies, just by virtue of being the only one playing that tune! Less faceciously, look at something like American studies; history in all but name. Yet universities up and down the country are doing American studies, not because it is any better or worse than history as a teaching tool, but because it allows them to jump Oxbridge et al. in the league tables!
Now some people weren't happy about the content of that last post. And we can't have someone not happy. Not on the internet.
Jono
Moderator

User avatar
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:44 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Super Jock on Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:47 pm

Surely that's nothing to do with the fact some studying Americans only care about their history. Electrical Engineering wasn't created to jump Physics, it was created because the subject has enough depth to be a degree in it's own right. Perhaps I've missed a key point though as I thought I agreed with your pedigree point, until your example. o.O

Perhaps Film Studies should change it's name if being taken seriously by other faculties matters to them. ;)
Super Jock
User avatar
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:47 pm

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby Hurrah on Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:45 pm

As a long-time lurker for whom the general atmosphere of The Sinner generally discourages from posting. I'd just like to make known I appreciate the fluency of argument and read-ability of both sides of the debate here despite the fact I have little input of my own I wish to impart. That is all.....continue.
Hurrah
 

Re: A new user's guide to the Sinner

Postby the Empress on Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:31 pm

The Sinner's mellowed - 5 years ago it was pretty vicious.

*slumps* I think I'm old.
the Empress
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:55 pm

Next

Return to The Sinner's Main Board

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests

cron