Home

TheSinner.net

Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

This message board is for discussing anything in any way remotely connected with St Andrews, the University or just anything you want. Welcome!

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby Fawksie on Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:13 pm

Image
The fox is a crafty and deceitful animal that never runs in a straight line, but only in circles.
Fawksie
Administrator

User avatar
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:32 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby sameguest on Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:51 pm

RedCelt69 wrote:
Senethro wrote:You're being really dumb here redcelt both in substance and interactions

Ad hominem much?



RedCelt69, are you gainfully employed yet or do you spend ALL of your time writing on the Sinner?
sameguest
 

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby munchingfoo on Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:21 pm

The thought process that must go through a person's mind when attacking another person for using the sinner by personally posting on the sinner boggles my simple mind.
I'm not a large water-dwelling mammal Where did you get that preposterous hypothesis? Did Steve
munchingfoo
Moderator

 
Posts: 5062
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:09 pm

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby RedCelt69 on Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:27 pm

Just to clarify. My main ire is wrt to those who seek to find differences, when similarities are more constructive.

The word "humanism" has had varying meanings, but in this perspective, think of humanism as feminism + masculinism. As a humanist, I see people as people - meaning that both genders have equal worth. As a humanist, this extends to race, sexual attraction... and every other aspect bestowed upon us at conception/birth. The key difference is a fundamental blindness towards things which make some people differ to other people.

Highlighting those differences makes those differences real and important when, in reality, they aren't.

Hercampus is one example. If it was called ourcampus, it could be a useful resource for all university students. Instead, it isolates a group of people due to the contents of their underwear. Of course there are differences between men and women, if those differences are a huge concern to you... but if you look at the website, those few differences (clothing/makeup?) are barely covered. It isn't a "woman's magazine", it is a source of advertising revenue targetted at a specific market... the type of market whereby advertisers positively relish the things that make men different to women - and screw the content.

A worse example is a website called SheThought.
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and celt
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed

Red Celt's Blog
RedCelt69
User avatar
 
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:28 pm

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby Senethro on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:17 am

what the fuck are you even rambling about? Are you saying that easy marketing demographic = capitalism = bad and thats the most significant thing?

When someone says they're gender/race blind, what is usually the case is that they're male/white and want to disassociate themselves from past injustice, pretend that current ones don't exist and assume the problem is with other people because they're not part of it (they are).

While the majority of the goals of feminism have been achieved in America/Europe, its almost the case that we have to keep running to stay in the same place. Take your eyes off the issues and they're trying to make most abortions illegal again (as in one of the dakotas). Closer to home on a similar subject, Ireland.
Senethro
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 9:40 pm

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby David Bean on Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:30 pm

Finally an issue on which RedCelt and I agree :) In fact if he'd been at the Feminism Debate t'other week, he might even have applauded my floor speech on that subject. My only modification would be that if Her Campus thinks there's a market there for it to tap, that they might make a profit whilst providing a service people want, as far as I'm concerned they can have at it - I'm just not personally delighted by the premise of their business model.
Psalm 91:7
David Bean
 
Posts: 3053
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby Senethro on Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:19 pm

Meet the young conservatives, same as the old conservatives
Senethro
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 9:40 pm

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby LonelyPilgrim on Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:17 am

RedCelt, while I join you in conceiving of myself as a Humanist, and can certainly understand your position, and agree with you that humanism > feminism I would point out several things:

The first of which is that while I tend to disagree with Senethro as much as I do with you - and have done so for longer than I have with you, as we were in our studies at the same (long) time ago - here I have to agree with him: "Humanism" is too often used as a label for people who want to feel good about themselves, and justify their lack of awareness/feeling about the problems of sexism on the grounds that such problems are not the humanist's individual fault.

The second point is that sexism is real, and personal sexism, ie. the sort of sexism that the humanist says he is not guilty of, is not the worst kind. The worst kind is the institutional sexism that has come to exist in the very foundations of our culture, ingrained by generations of conceiving different roles for men and women in the proper order of things. Perhaps, if a majority of people were thinking Humanists... or more realistically, if a majority of those in power were thinking humanists... institutional sexism would whither and die without the need for identity politics and activist groups and journals devoted to 'feminism'. But that isn't the world we live in, and saying "Well, I didn't make it that way, I'm a Humanist," is just a fancy way of being proud of being blind and lazy if it isn't paired up with active campaigning.

Senethro,

Saying the majority of the aims of Feminism have been achieved in America is quite a stretch, to say the least.
Man is free; yet we must not suppose that he is at liberty to do everything he pleases, for he becomes a slave the moment he allows his actions to be ruled by passion. --Giacomo Casanova
LonelyPilgrim
 
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:49 am
Location: Nevada, USA

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby RedCelt69 on Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:03 am

LonelyPilgrim wrote:"Humanism" is too often used as a label for people who want to feel good about themselves, and justify their lack of awareness/feeling about the problems of sexism on the grounds that such problems are not the humanist's individual fault.

I'm not using the label for those purposes. I have an awareness/feeling about the problems of sexism. I'm not doing a George W Bush, standing infront of a "Mission Accomplished" banner, saying that sexual inequalities are non-existent. The battle itself is over - equality of the sexes is now a given, rather than something that needs to be established. What remains is a continuing series of skirmishes which can best be done by both sexes. Together. As humans, rather than denoting the very differences that caused the inequalities in the first place.

And those problems are not this individual humanist's fault. I'm not a believer in inherited "sins". It is a meme which should be long-dead.
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and celt
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed

Red Celt's Blog
RedCelt69
User avatar
 
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:28 pm

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby LonelyPilgrim on Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:29 am

The battle is over? Only skirmishes are left?

What about the Pay Gap? What about allowing women in combat roles? What about every little thing that makes it clear that raising children is a woman's job and not a man's, ie. maternity leave (which, in itself, is rare enough in the US) and not paternity leave?

One of the things that struck me when I first arrived in the UK and which I could never get used to and which just set my teeth on edge, was what seemed like the standard practice of having a female radio show host for the sole purpose of being the but of sexist jokes by the male hosts.

Or how about the whole damn ad campaign for Yorkie bars?? (unless it is for girls, too, now)

Granted, I'm an American, and I have no doubt that I viewed a lot of things through an American 'lens' during my four years there, and therefore misinterpreted some things. I am also aware that, in some spheres, British women are traditionally granted more equality than American women. For instance, I have a copy of a handbook that went out to American servicemen stationed in Britain in preparation for the D-Day invasions that goes to some lengths to explain that British women are permitted to be more romantically aggressive than American women by custom and that this does mean that all British women are shameless hussies. By comparison, an American women who did anything but demurely wait for a man to chat her up in that era was a wanton slut.

To some extent, that difference still exists, I think. Certainly, from what I, and some other Americans I knew at St Andrews noticed and discussed, British women are still permitted by your society to be more sexually aggressive than American women. Not that American women aren't now allowed, encouraged, and even pressured at times into being explicitly sexual... but the 'aggressive' part is still considered a derogatory term to apply to a woman over here.

But despite all of that, I've read guides on international business practices and etiquette (for my last employment) that have said that women are still heavily discriminated against in British companies, especially at higher levels. One guide went so far as to suggest not sending women over to conduct sales pitches or any other type of meeting with British counterparts as she would likely be ignored and her ability to speak with authority for her employer would be naturally questioned. Since I'm not a businesswoman, I sort of have to take this on faith, of course, but it rings true. I left the UK with the impression that women had more legal rights than in the US, and more sexual freedoms, but that taking society as a whole, women were largely patronised to if they dared to get into 'serious' (ie. man's) business.

Of course, in many ways its much worse here in the US (despite a more, but not entirely, equal economic playing field), and I don't want to be an accusatory pot.
Man is free; yet we must not suppose that he is at liberty to do everything he pleases, for he becomes a slave the moment he allows his actions to be ruled by passion. --Giacomo Casanova
LonelyPilgrim
 
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:49 am
Location: Nevada, USA

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby RedCelt69 on Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:45 am

Compare the patriarchy that existed at the time of the Suffragettes with the patriarchy of modernity. Thousands of years of male dominance have been overturned in a very short period of time. That was the battle. The still-existent differences are skirmishes, fought on a battlefield where the opponents know the final outcome. All opposition to equality (of any type) are now, thankfully, skirmishes. Comparitively speaking. Which is not the same as a claim that they don't exist.

The Yorkie Bar adverts used irony. An advert that deliberately used politically incorrect gender-assignments for chocolate bars is a quantum leap from a woman's right to vote.
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and celt
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed

Red Celt's Blog
RedCelt69
User avatar
 
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:28 pm

Re: Get involved with HER CAMPUS!

Postby Haunted on Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:51 am

Genesis 19:4-8
Haunted
User avatar
 
Posts: 3171
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:05 am

Previous

Return to The Sinner's Main Board

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 44 guests

cron