Sheer ignorance and stupidity - RACISM

[Lilith]

So last night was, perhaps, the biggest Halloween event in St Andrews; Rocksoc Halloween. I decided to go as a Marlene Russian Spy. The term Marlene, supposedly derives its term from Marlene Dietrich, a German-American actress. Now it is well know that Marlene strictly opposed the Nazis, however it is a myth that she was spying on them for the Russians. Either way the point is the term Marlene is inspired by her staunch anti-Nazism. So that's where Marlene comes from.

Now here is a photo of the costume I wore last night - http://www.fancydressoutfitters.co.uk/t ... ume-ladies

Anyone with half a brain can clearly see this is not a Nazi uniform; there are no swastikas present.

Anyway a few girls outside the union last night decided to shout abuse at me, calling me a Nazi and a racist. So I asked 'what the hell?' Their reply was that I was clearly wearing a Nazi uniform because it had a red armband which had the famous Nazi eagle on it. While it is true that the Nazi eagle is one-headed and the Russian is two-headed, I would like to point out again that there were no swastikas present. Now I can completely understand why some people might have found my costume offensive... that is, from a distance or just out of sheer ignorance but here is the bit of the story that really REALLY annoys me...

They also accused my boyfriend of being racist. Apparently he was dressed as a member of the KKK. In fact, he was dressed as Magical Trevor. Now I'm sure you all know what members of the KKK look like but here is a picture in case you don't - http://americanhistory.si.edu/brown/his ... robe-l.jpg and here is a picture of Magical Trevor - http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Asm1iAEmZA4/S ... Trevor.jpg. And yes, my boyfriend wore a ginger beard, had a friggin' star on his wizard's hat AND had TREV written across his front. So....how the hell did he look like a member of the KKK?

Another friend of mine who had no time or money to make a costume decided to do the classic bed sheet ghost look. A sheet over his head with eye holes and a mouth hole. He too was given abuse on his way to the union for being a member of the KKK.

I'm still shocked and insulted at being called a racist and a Nazi for I have encountered racial abuse myself many a time. The ironic thing is I'm half-Jewish. However, I will be wearing this costume again for there is nothing wrong with it.

P.S. Forgot to mention - My boyfriend won best male costume at Rocksoc. I guess Rocksoc endorses racism then?

[RedCelt69]

That was very funny.

Sorry, but both costumes could (from a distance and a limited perception of culture) mistake you and your boyfriend as a nazi and a member of the KKK. The correct response (with an absence of the two above conditions) would be to question what you were dressed as. When they started shouting abuse you should, in your mind, have translated the words into "I'm ignorant! I'm ignorant and I like everyone within shouting distance to know that I'm ignorant!"

I wouldn't take offence - unless you find it offensive that your university is (partly) populated by ignorant people.

[malcolm166]

have to say I'm sort of confused at to some of the elements of what you are saying.

In the first place, Nazism never was particularly linked with racism - given the fact that they pretty much confined their malevolence to Europe then so that I'd agree that there is a lot lacking in the sort of education some are getting around here. Christ alone knows how often I've heard "racist" being levelled at anyone complaining about the actions or attitudes of those "South of the Border" as if it were possible to be "racist" in criticising others of essentially the same race.

But I'm confused at to why you should be at pains to point out on at least two occasions the fact that it could not have been a Nazi uniform because "there were no swastikas". Altho it presumably will give some solace to the likes of Max Moseley, leaders of local Tory councils in London and friends of the Royal Family that they too can deny any association with Nazis and point to the carefully Tippexed out swastika on their red armbands. While presumably covering their upper lip with their other hand. And also maybe making at least one half of your family feel better as to how you dressed to a fancy dress party. Once it hits the point that there is a likelihood that it could be mistaken - from any distance - that it seems to represent something with so many disgusting connotations then you have to admit that it's pretty much open season on anyone who chooses to wear it.

Which in a sense, is the main point. Despite protestations that it wasn't a Nazi uniform, and that therefore ""you all" just don't understand and are ignorant" and that you were misunderstood, I'm confused at to why you should see it as an "excusing" factor that it was a Russian uniform not a Nazi one. Given the fact that the Nazis "only" managed the wholesale slaughter of 6 million human beings and that in the same period Stalin - assisted by his spies - managed the grand total of some 23 million, I can't understand why anyone should feel aggrieved about being called any sort of derogatory term. Both were a bunch of murderous disgusting sons o bitches whose existence represents so much that brought so much grief and pain to the world. Why bother in the first place?

Unless it was chosen to advertise your support and appreciation of a cinematic artist of a previous era?

[fluffy]

To be honest, after a drink or two, I don't think I would be able to tell the difference in the dark.

[jollytiddlywink]

Anyone with half a brain can clearly see this is not a Nazi uniform; there are no swastikas present.

Having looked at the photo links provided, I have the following things to say:
1. Anyone with half a brain, or even an entire one, would quite reasonably assume it to be a Nazi uniform, absence of an actual swastika or not. Speaking as a military historian specializing in WWI and WWII, I recognized that your outfit was a Russian-inspired one... but the fact that it included a red armband (even without a swastika) immediately negates the apparently Russian look of the coat and hat and lends it an unmistakably Nazi aspect. How somebody who does not pride themselves on recognizing national/service uniforms of that era is meant to be able to tell (at night) that you were obviously a Russian pretending to be Nazi, and not actually just a Nazi, is entirely beyond me.
Being shouted at in the street says more about your lack of foresight in choosing your costume than it does about the supposed stupidity of the people who shouted at you.
2. The same goes for your boyfriend's costume. Had I seen him in the street, I would have assumed he was dressed up as a KKK member called Trev. I had never heard of 'Magical Trevor' until your post mentioned him/it. Just as it would have been wiser for you to wear something else, the same applies to your boyfriend.
3. The only one who gets off the hook here is your friend in his bedsheet... assuming he wasn't silly enough to have worn a pointy hat underneath the sheet. That one is actually silly bystanders, not silly costume-wearer.

And yes, you've made the point more than once that you weren't actually wearing a swastika. It doesn't matter whether you were or not. The armband was enough, and that should have been obvious.


And, malcolm166,

In the first place, Nazism never was particularly linked with racism

Good heavens, read a book. Nazism was steeped in racism.

[LonelyPilgrim]

malcom166:

I am at a loss as to how you could argue that Nazism wasn't inherently racist, seeing as how the self-evidentness of the racial superiority of the Germanic peoples was so central to the ideology. The only thing I can think of is that you are mistaking a very specific form of fascism (ie. Nazism) with fascism in general.

Lilith:

While I see nothing inherently wrong with dressing up as a Russian spy for Halloween, and indeed think that it is silly, crude, disingenuous, and insulting to intelligence for people to assume that a Halloween costume is indicative of ones own political affiliations... I must ask, since you seem genuinely surprised that people took offence and used the opportunity to pillory you and yours, have you been living under a rock for the last few years?

Taking offence and insulting people has become the done thing. Everything has become controversial and most things have become political. And, apparently for women, no costume is safe since one must choose between wearing something 'slutty' and thereby pandering to the Male Gaze or wearing something more consevative and therefore reinforcing the Patriarchy. Be glad you were criticised for something else and take what solace you can from knowing that you are not a Nazi and your boyfriend is not part of the KKK and leave the insult and outrage to those who are more practised at it.

[RedCelt69]

If someone (actually) wearing a nazi costume is, by definition, a racist... does that mean that someone dressed as a ghost is guilty of haunting people? Or people dressed as Freddy Kreuger are guilty of dream-based murders?

There could, perhaps, be an accusation of poor taste. But racism? Seriously? Meh! Above and beyond Halloween itself, fancy dress is an act of parody - not an avowal of personal tastes. Else I'll pay a lot more attention at the next Vicars & Tarts event (the latter, not the former).

[Haunted]

Anyone with half a brain would realise it's just a Halloween costume. It wouldn't matter if you dressed as an SS General complete with monical and cane, the accusation that you are a racist because of this is laughable. Which is what you should have done; laughed it off.
I remember that best Rocksoc Halloween costume was once a man dressed as the Pope wearing a Nazi armband, he got a little abuse I think but he laughed it off/threatened libel action.

[malcolm166]

Lonely Pilgrim and others

it was probably my inability to find the right words at that time of night and so my mistake but the point I was trying to make led on from that - that the malevolence and slaughter that then ensued was mostly in Europe and against other European groups. I don't have a problem accepting - knowing - that their attitude towards other races was as backward and demented as to those in Europe - so don't worry I wasn't looking to defend the bastards in any way.

In that sense I guess I was objecting to the notion that somehow they defined race as "a group of tribes or peoples, an ethnic group" which is somehow the way in which they managed to define themselves as "Aryan" and as being separate from the other Causcasian groups present in Europe. That effort was as misguided and ignorant as most of what they founded their ideology on. Especially given for instance the fact that the Proto-Indo-European group they prided themselves on belonging to also included Slavs and Celts - two other groups they regarded as "inferior".

Like I said, I wasn't defending anything they did but was pointing out the dubiety of classing for instance "the Germanic peoples" or the "English peoples" as being anything remotely resembling a "race" as I understand the term.

[macgamer]

On the topic if supposed racist Halloween costumes, last weekend I saw a young black man on the tube with is face painted in the manner of the Robertson's Golly / Golliwog. I had to have a quintuple-take. Objectively racist, probably not.

[EllenRose]

So it seems that not everyone loves Magical Trevor.

This makes me sad as the tricks that he does are ever so clever... :[

[wild_quinine]

Objectively racist, probably not.

Racism isn't about objectivity.

A surprising number of local authorities now use the following defintion for racial incidents:
"A racist incident is any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person"

That's the kind of vacuous bullshit that the hounds of common sense should be mercilessly unleashed upon. Instead it's embedded in powerpoint presentations for local government up and down the country.

Poor taste such as wearing Nazi outfits, or dressing up as a 'Golly', or blacking up to celebrate President Obama's state visit, is always what people pick on, point out, report on in the news. Because it offends people, I suppose.

But poor taste and racism are not the same thing. People have every right to be offended at these things, as they do in any other circumstance. But they are not, in themselves, the problem.

Racism itself isn't fundamentally wrong because it is offensive. We don't need laws to protect our delicate sensitivities from offense. Racism is fundamentally wrong because it causes harm.

Dressing up as a golly is pretty well over the line of good taste. Hell, I'm offended, I can't even help it. But crossing that line isn't wrong because bad taste is wrong. I do not believe that bad taste is wrong. It's something that will turn a lot of people off, and if you're not aware of that then you're ignorant at best.

But it's my belief that such offensive caricatures of racism are wrong where, and in as much as, they cause harm. This does not need to be direct harm. It could simply mean reinforcing existing racial stereotypes, because it is those stereotypes that lead to predjudice and resultant harm.

But it always seems like the cases that are least likely to be genuinely harmful that people complain about, whilst large scale cases of institutional racism, for example, are just seen to be a fact of life. What the fuck?

The thing that annoys me most is that all people seem to know how to do these days is point, and shout 'Ahh, I'm telling on you!' as if that were in some way useful.

[Hennessy]

I just love the that these girls obviously thought that Nazis and members of the KKK would go to the St Andrews Student Union on a friday night out, in uniform. It's making me chuckle right now actually.

Seems to be a bit of a badge of honour amongst some people how much "racism" they have personally come across and loudly opposed.