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Where feminism has failed?

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Where feminism has failed?

Postby macgamer on Mon May 23, 2011 11:37 am

'India's 2011 census shows a serious decline in the number of girls under the age of seven - activists fear eight million female foetuses may have been aborted in the past decade.'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13264301

If feminism is about defending the rights of women, what about their right to exist? The right to abortion is something which feminism supports vociferously, then why is it apparently silent about 'gendercide' in India and China?

Whatever your view is on abortion, surely this is going too far?
"Progress should mean that we are always changing the world to fit the vision, instead we are always changing the vision."
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Re: Where feminism has failed?

Postby Senethro on Mon May 23, 2011 11:57 am

What are you arguing against? My prejudices with regard to you suggest you're trying to paint abortion in a bad light but I'm perfectly willing to believe that you're actually deploring patriarchal societies placing high value on male children such that they'll make use of tools available to them in a way you deem .... uhhh... bad? Someone give me a word here. Bad, negative, without implication of villainy or huge stigma on individuals, acting out the cultural biases imposed upon them from outside sources.

Also, can it be the case that feminism has failed in a country where it has not yet succeeded?
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Re: Where feminism has failed?

Postby macgamer on Mon May 23, 2011 12:17 pm

Abortion, as know from past statements, I oppose, but selectively aborting children on a whim because a girl would be unwanted takes the disregard for human life to a nadir.

I have been aware of selective abortion in India and China for many years, but I thought considering the topic of feminism was in the air, it might be interesting to discuss the interaction between these two topics.

The extremes of the patriarchy seen in India and China where this practice takes place extensively, is a symptom of a differential value place on human life according to gender. Males are worth more, whereas women much less. Yes there are socio-economic and cultural factors at play here: the persistence of the dowry system in India and the one-child policy in China, mean that either women are considered a cost or where there is pressure any inbuilt bias towards males, these translate to a strengthened rejection of female children.

Surely this can be an issue for feminism? According a gender-dependent value to human life is an injustice This is an injustice to women, who in this scenario are the victims.
"Progress should mean that we are always changing the world to fit the vision, instead we are always changing the vision."
- G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1908
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Re: Where feminism has failed?

Postby Hennessy on Mon May 23, 2011 1:15 pm

I happen to agree with Macgamer that feminism has failed, or rather its totally lost touch, or perhaps wasn't very relevant to begin with. I share some of his problems over abortion - that matter is still undecided for me, the measurable potential for life being something of a grey area.

Firstly to understand "old" feminism you've got to understand that rather early on it became very closely allied with socialist movements - hence in the caricature of the feminist bringing up sexual oppression you catch glimpses of the theories of Marx and Engels - the language is virtually identical by the 1970's and allied with the assertion of minority rights of that decade. Hence the close identification of feminism with a number of other causes like combating racism, they all fall under the same socialist umbrella, so to speak.

The problem we always run up against in criticising feminism is that we're male - not objective critics to begin with. Secondly the feminist movement will always argue for "equality" - although what that is has shifted gradually since the inception of the movement, a sort of multi-lateral 'mission creep' . Arguing against someone who starts out by saying that all they want is equality puts you straightaway at a disadvantage, doesn't it?

That's one of the problems I have with feminism - lack of objectivity. "Equality" is a heavily subjective term - so is "disadvantage". We could probably agree on equal pay for equal work as equality - does that stretch to generous maternity leave schemes mandated by law, social childcare schemes, tax credits or all-women shortlists I wonder? I'd call some of those benefits on top of equality, but some feminists believe they aren't enough.

We can also probably both agree that feminism is a very diverse thing, and most of those holding prominent radical feminist views have either softened their tone since the 70's (a la Germaine Greer) or represent the rump of extreme points of view the majority will never agree to (the leftover kernel of deeply boring radicals who lack the imagination or chutzpah of their forebears).

The other problem I have with feminism is their appetite for historiography - it's probably unrelated to this dicussion.
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