TheSinner.net Messageboards

It's always nice to see a good argument kick off somewhere else than the sinner. usually I go to the Guardian's comments section to get my syringe of outrage of contempt, straight to the vein. This time though I was on an infrequent browse through facebook, when I saw this -



followed, slightly later by this -



I won't lie, it had piqued my interest to see such bitter froth erupting on the normally placid medium. I clicked through and set about reading. Obviously this was a response of some kind an article in the Saint. Wait a second - neo-colonialism and racism? Those handy rhetorical stones that are lobbed whenever an argument has to be forced into existence? Who is this strange, dull author who seemingly lacks a funny-bone? I'd urge you to read for yourselves.

http://www.stand-news.co.uk/tribe-calle ... f3f00693a4


There are some properly earnest gems in there. Take these, which had me almost crying with laughter -

This weirdly self-referential piece of meta-criticism makes me question whether these pieces are actually an insanely polished piece of post-colonial satire. Then I remember I’m reading The Saint.

#thatawkwardmomentwhenyourealiseyou’reafewyearslateforthescrambleforafrica.

‘Every mile I pray to God for strength, but then I look around me and I realise God left this place a long time ago.’” These statements betray total ignorance of colonial stereotyping and reek of unthinking superiority.

I haven't read the original article, I imagine it was some layman's attempt at a humorous travelogue - but whatever it was or wasn't this fantastic piece of righteous ordure had been pressed down on it by an author looking to fit his wildly unworldly theories to modern-day fact.

I can't blame the author alone though - after all he's probably an impressionable student. This is the work of more advanced minds, toiling away endlessly in academic obscurity to bring him the True Word about how a theory that had its day about thirty years ago is still relevant in the 21st century. Said and his ilk continue to haunt us for our troubles, while we sit and discuss the merits and demerits of philosophies that should have been consigned to history by the end of the 20th century, China, unencumbered by historical guilt, has no problem engaging with African nations in ways that might actually benefit both parties. The West has pussy-footed around for long enough, it's time to close the book and re-engage with the world as it is, not as some might fantatise it is.

If in the future you ask yourself how a student got to the end of their career at St Andrews with such a closed and puritanical mind, ask yourself, did they study IR at any point?

Hennessy wrote:

#thatawkwardmomentwhenyourealiseyou’reafewyearslateforthescrambleforafrica.

What an unabashed nitwit. Any tweeter knows not to use punctuation in a hashtag. "youareafewyearslate", not "you'reafew..."

Honestly.

Further support, not that more was needed, for my leaving Facebook 18 months ago. Freedom from these inanities and self-righteous tirades is a particular benefit.

so whats this thread about? a guys being set up as being dumb and bad in his reaction to a thing and so therefore whatever he believes is also dumb and bad, but noones going to tell us what the original thing was? The assumption is that nothing could justifiably produce this reaciton?

yah, sure, facebook. It looks overwrought from here but who the fuck craes

I think the worst thing is that the person posting the objection got the original article(s) taken down from the Saint, leaving most people no opportunity to see for themselves if the piece was as bad as stated, or if the critical response has merely cherry picked things out of context.

I think it's stupid to lay into someone whilst simultaneously destroying the evidence.

I also happen to think that willful censorship is not a significant improvement on ignorant racism.

I am unsure as to what China investing in Africa has to do with a critique of racist stereotypes. I haven't read the original article either since it was taken down, but judging by the citations in the response it was pretty bad... I'm not sure why we should condone that either.

And what's wrong with critiquing racist attitudes? I think the FB poster is pretty spot on with the whole 'rich white kids' thing regarding St Andrews...

Can't we critique racism and invest in Africa?

Cinema wrote:And what's wrong with critiquing racist attitudes?

Not a damn thing, in my opinion. Getting someone's article taken down and then proceeding to publically tear them to pieces for the content... that I'm less comfortable with.

EDIT:

Here was the URL http://www.thesaint-online.com/2012/03/ ... d-you-ask/

Can't find any cache, though.

I dunno, shouldn't we be tearing things apart publicly? Otherwise there is no critical public discourse, no reflexivity. I can't think of anything better for a population than a bit of self reflection.

Cinema wrote:I dunno, shouldn't we be tearing things apart publicly? Otherwise there is no critical public discourse, no reflexivity. I can't think of anything better for a population than a bit of self reflection.

I'd venture that WQ's objection isn't the tearing things apart, but tearing it apart whilst the thing being torn is invisible. To be honest, I myself am a little bit uncomfortable dealing with the topic without knowing what the whole context of the initial article(s) was - or at very least their content.

Without that to view, I can't help but worry that the linked article above is effectively a straw-man. Or it might as well be - we've no real way of knowing. I don't think there's a particular problem with tearing apart dubious (or even high integrity) attitudes, but it's obviously difficult somewhat to know either way.

Same goes for me - kinda difficult to comment on an article that isn't available to read. And therefore depending overall on the perceptions of one person with an agenda to be convinced that the author of the critique deserves to be lambasted for apparently "lacking a funny-bone" - "Public School Boy Speak" for denying that anything said can possibly be offensive or inherently a fondly-held belief of the way the world really is. Even tho not having read the article in question oneself.
Mind you, it was kind of chastening to read quotes from the article that talked of how " "…we rested and most importantly fed, consuming vast quantities of meat. In fact we stuffed ourselves so well (two nights to the point of not being able to stand), that we began to doubt whether this whole famine chat about Africa is just one big joke." Yeah - bet it was and is!! For those self-comfortable enough to talk of "natives" whose English apparently wasn't too good" and some street sellers who had apparently never played with "white people" before!! While dreaming gallantly of vast landscapes and killing lions - presumably as some sort of self styled Great White Hunter Bwana fresh from trekking the Irish bogs killing grouse.

Yup - pretty much the kind of junk that probably does infest some places not a million miles away from Hope St. and elsewhere. Sounds like the original article was composed by a Tweed as some sort of deprecating witty piece on chaps and natives one meets on one's travels and whom Granpa had much to say over a snifter.