top 10 hardest courses in st andrews?

[highway_to_hell1982]

So i got an email from a very old friend whose cousin's best friend's daughter's neice in law (if i got that right!) wants to know what are the 10 most challenging courses here since he believes the more challenging, the better the school, since that's her style of education. She wants to come here because of the golf. Sooo, can any any experienced St Andrian or honours student care to list their top 10 to give me some idea of what I should say? Cheers.

[Jonny_G]

It difficult to say 'these are the hardest' as few have studied more than 3 subjects and different people find different things hard. The Schools of International Relations and Psychology are among the best in their fields in the UK, something they are very proud of. As such, they demand very high standards from their students. Entry requirements are particularly high for IR. I am a 4th International Relations student if that helps. But St. Andrews is a top university, thus sets high standards for students in all subjects.

[EviLTwiN]

The year i came here the Maths dept was voted top in britain, above Cambridge. It's always in the top 4 pretty much, and the best in Scotland, although it depends on the newspaper who does the list.

Plus maths is generally regarded as a hard degree. That's why I picked it anyway.

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[gingerbeer]

I've done quite a few different subjects and would probably say that the most difficult was Spanish for Beginners. We were supposed to learn 20 words a day, hand in translations several times a week and had tests about every other week and in the second semester we started studying literature. Needless to say, only a fraction of the class went on to honours Spanish.

[heh]

Medicine and IR... and art history.

[PurelySynthetic]

Hmmm.. im thinking asking what the hardest courses are is a bit stupid. A hard course could be one thats hard for one person but easy for another due to one having more or less knowledge on the subject than the other.
Work load on the other hand doesnt exactly equate to how good a course is. The work load for my course this semester got fuked up because the lectures gave us no practicals until half way through which left us with 8 deadlines all counting towards our honours grade in less than 4 weeks. So my work load is now a joke - but if this had been set out properly in the first place it wouldnt be so bad as it would have been more spread out.
I guess you could also go by how many lectures you have a day - but then that varies far too dramatically - some courses have one lecture a week in honours but does that necessarily mean the course is easy? I wouldnt say so... but then i dont do a course like that!
But anyway surely you would do a course because you're interested in the subject and want to learn more - not because some student has said its hard!?
Seems a silly way to chose a degree to me!

[immunodiffusion]

It depends on "hard" in what way? Eg medicine is hard in that there is a very high workload, a lot to remember and there are more exams than for other students, but then it is not intellectually that difficult, it mainly involves memorising other people's fairly simple ideas. Other subjects such as philosophy and history may be easier in that there are less classes and exams, and less names to remember, but the ideas and concepts are more complex and it involves a lot more original thought than medicine. One student might find medicine easy and philosophy hard, whilst it may be the reverse for another student, depending on how their minds work and what they're good at.

Also the perceived "hardness" of a subject also has a lot to do with the way in which it is taught rather than being an innate property of a subject. This depends very much on different departments, and on different tutors and lecturers within different departments.

"Hardness" also depends on how much you enjoy a subject - something you don't enjoy will seem much harder because studying for it will be a chore, rather than studying something you are interested in will seem easy because maybe you would read about your subject anyway for fun!

I think all subjects are just as "hard" as each other, yet each is also quite different. I would advise doing a subject that you find interesting and that you are going to enjoy rather than one that is "hard".

[Eliot Wilson]

[s]Unregisted User gingerbeer wrote on 19:51, 2nd Dec 2003:
I've done quite a few different subjects and would probably say that the most difficult was Spanish for Beginners. We were supposed to learn 20 words a day, hand in translations several times a week and had tests about every other week and in the second semester we started studying literature. Needless to say, only a fraction of the class went on to honours Spanish.


It's the same in any beginners' course. I did beginners' German in my first year, oh so long ago, and by semester 2 we were expected to read Kafka in the original. Like your class, not a single one of us took German any further.


[hr]
Bill and Ted beat the Grim Reaper at Twister

Bill: "You played very well, Death, especially with your totally heavy Death robes."

Death: "Don't patronise me."

[Guest]

Lets put it like this. If someone has done languages, they will obviously find languages easier than say, Chemistry or Physics, if they have not studied them previously.

What is hard for one person, may be quite easy for the next. I would find mathematics incredibly difficult, but then I have a friend who reads maths and they seem to be able to get by with little or no effort.

Categorising difficulty seems rather silly to me. But for what it's worth, I would say -Physics, Maths, Greek/Latin, look quite scarry.

[exnihilo]

Hebrew. Well, its about as meaningful an answer as any other one on here. As has been pointed out ad nauseam it depends on the person more than on the course. Though, for what its worth, I find IR hard to believe.


[hr]"And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad the dreams in which I'm dying are the best I ever had." - Gary Jules & Michael Andrews, MadWorld

[Nick Mitchell]

How many people do you know who got firsts in IR?

[Guest]

I bought a book recently which has in it quotes from people who recently graduated from university, saying what they regretted most about their time spent there. One of the complaints was: "I wish I had taken classes I enjoyed rather than the ones everyone said were easy." I tend to agree--there has got to be something you're really interested in (or you really shouldn't be at Uni), so go ahead and study that and you'll probably end up doing just as well in it as the 'easy' course, because you simply enjoy it more.

[exnihilo]

[s]Nick Mitchell wrote on 19:53, 3rd Dec 2003:
How many people do you know who got firsts in IR?


Proving what? How many people do you know who got firsts in Mediaeval History for that matter? And am I not correct in thinking that IR marks on a curve, so your actual ability is less relevant than it might be.

I know I'll be attacked by every IR student on the Sinner, but I expect I'll live - IR is neither the best nor the most difficult subject at the University. Sorry IR people, but its not, and frankly the slightly cultish nature of the department is scary.

For what its worth, my old Dept was not only the highest rated in the university, but also the highest in the country in its area. Does that make it the hardest? No. I coasted through, but maybe that's because I was good at it?

This thread becomes foolish.


[hr]
"Most people are not as stupid as they look; I mean, how could they be?"

[Nick Mitchell]

What I'm saying is that I know a lot of people who got firsts other subjects yet I did IR and don't know anyone who got a first overall, which would seem to suggest that they are easier, at least to get a first in.

Moreover, to get back to the original poster's problem, St Andrews does have one of the best IR departments in the country, with some of the most prominent academics in the country.

[Nick Mitchell]

Actually, though, I'm pretty sure that Medicine is the hardest subject. Ever since I started doing Law I've had a lot of sympathy for the amount of works medics have to do.

[EviLTwiN]

[s]Nick Mitchell wrote on 16:14, 4th Dec 2003:
What I'm saying is that I know a lot of people who got firsts other subjects yet I did IR and don't know anyone who got a first overall, which would seem to suggest that they are easier, at least to get a first in.


What does that say about the people you knew from IR?

:p sorry had to say that

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[cheimon]

I didn't think any of the courses I took last year were challenging in the slightest-- whoever said art history was hard must have been on crack. I did the advanced Latin course for first years and it had more work than my other modules, but still only about an hour a night instead of the 2 or 3 I was having at school. I really don't think any of the courses at St Andrews are all that difficult.

[Guest]

The courses I am taking (and IR is one of them) are not particularly tasking at all. Go to the lectures, do a small amount of reading (an hour a week), and attend the tutorials. Thats all that's to it. I got a 15 in first year IR.

My other first year courses - Modern History (I got a 15), and English (I gota 16) required little or no effort.

I must also say that second year IR and Modern History are not particularly any more difficult that first year. But then that's my opinion.

The key to picking subjects is to do something YOU enjoy.

[PurelySynthetic]

[s]Nick Mitchell wrote on 16:14, 4th Dec 2003:
What I'm saying is that I know a lot of people who got firsts other subjects yet I did IR and don't know anyone who got a first overall, which would seem to suggest that they are easier, at least to get a first in.





Hmmm... as someone else said in reply to this - have u ever thought it was the level of people rather than it being a hard course?
In every course there are going to be people who find it hard, people who find it ok and people who are genius's and find it easy.
I thought IR was taken by all the "foreign" students? Maybe thats just my misguided image of the subject - but i dont know! :$
I find it hard to beleive that noone could get consistent grades above a 17 if they worked hard enough at it. Yeh its hard to get a first in any subject - but it all depends on the people who are taking it rather than the course itself.
A course could be as easy or as hard as it likes - it depends if people bother to work at getting a good mark or not that determines how many firsts are given that year.

[Nick Mitchell]

I doubt that the people who do IR are thick, as it has some of the highest entry requirements in the University.

I would be interested to know if there's anywhere which has proportionate degree results per department. Also, does anyone actually know if marks are marked relative to results?