Intro to "hackery"?

[help?]

No bitching

I was just wondering if someone would care to explain the very basics of student politics here at St Andrews. I've been here a while and while I do my voting when neccessary I think it's about time I knew what everyone actually did.

For example, what is the difference between the SRC and the SSC and where do the sabs fit into it all? I don't want to know about the actual people doing these jobs, just what all the various positions entail and what good they are for students basically.

I was also wondering why this:

SC Member Without Portfolio
SSC Member from First Years
SSC Member for Societies Elections
SRC Member for University Accommodation
SRC Member for Postgraduate Accommodation
SRC Member for Mature Students
SRC Member for Special Needs Students
SRC Member for International Students
SRC Member for Ethnic Minorities
SRC Member for Sexualities & Gender
SRC Member for Part-Time Students
SRC Member for Absent Students
SRC Member for Postgraduate Students
SRC Member for Women's Issues
SRC Member for Men's Issues
SRC Member for Medicine Faculty
SRC Member for Science Faculty
SRC Member for Arts Faculty
SRC Member for Divinity Faculty
SRC Member for Postgraduate Taught Courses
SRC Member for First Year / Bejant/ine
SRC Member for JYA / JSA

is neccesary :/ I mean it's comedic sure but why so many people needed in posts that sound like they have been made up? Do some of them actually not do anything really? I mean so many of them could have been lumped together quite efficiently and I can't really say how busy the Men's Issues member will be for example, or even the Women's Issues member! And what does the Sexualities and Gender post mean? All seems way to over the top politically correct to me.


So seriously though, what is it all about - and remember no bitching or shameless self publicity - just the barebones of it all if that is possible.

[puzzled]

[s]Unregisted User help? wrote on 15:41, 10th Aug 2004:

SRC Member for Absent Students




You have to be making that one up, surely?

[LeopardSkinQueen]

Nope- all real posts.


[hr][s]What she read- all heady books, she'd sit and prophesise (it took a tattooed boy from Birkenhead to really, really open her eyes).
[/s]

[RJ Covino]

[s]Unregisted User help? wrote on 15:41, 10th Aug 2004:
SSC Member Without Portfolio
SSC Member from First Years
SSC Member for Societies Elections

As the Senior Officer of the SSC, I'll field these three to start with.

The SSC Member without Portfolio position exists to provide a junior-level entry-point to the SSC, so the member can gain Union-experience which will help them in helping the students, be it through societies or otherwise, in the future.

The SSC Member for First Years ensures that the SSC does not overlook the needs of the bejant community and assists with the planning of events such as pre-sesh week and, of course, provides those planning events with the necessary bejant outlook.

The SSC Member for Societies' Elections is, in effect, the member who takes on the onerous duty formerly held by the Societies' Officer of supervising elections in the societies and ensuring that they are handled correctly.


SRC Member for Postgraduate Accommodation
SRC Member for Postgraduate Students
SRC Member for Postgraduate Taught Courses
SRC Member for Postgraduate Research Courses


As the one who had to do all of these jobs simultaneously this year as well as be the equivalent of the newly created SSC Postgraduate Officer, I can assure you that there's work enough for everybody.

SRC Member for Postgraduate Accommodation - Postgraduates have differing needs to undergraduates accommodatio-wise and, as such, a member has been created to voice these, as appropriate, to the Accommodation sub-committee and to the SRC.

SRC Member for Postgraduate Students - an equivalent to the new system of undergraduate year reps for postgraduates so as to ensure parity.

SRC Members for Postgraduate Taught Courses / Research Courses - Representing the two different types of postgraduate experience at St Andrews, these positions bring a much needed larger postgraduate voice to the SRC in keeping with the increase in size of the PG population here in St Andrews in the last decade or so.

These members will also form, along with a handful of others, the SRC's Postgraduate sub-committee for the formulation of a postgraduate policy to guide the Students' Association's representational actions in the postgraduate sphere.


SRC Member for Mature Students
SRC Member for Special Needs Students
SRC Member for International Students
SRC Member for Ethnic Minorities
SRC Member for Sexualities & Gender
SRC Member for Part-Time Students
SRC Member for Absent Students


These members similarly offer a voice on the SRC for those students in situations which are not the norm so that they are not overlooked.

Absent students, while you may scoff, are that sizeable portion of students away from St Andrews at any given point who have their own needs and concerns which must be addressed.

Anyway, there's a start for you.

The new system will take time to sort itself out; however, I firmly believe that the increased numbers will lead to a more effective means by which students can bring their cares/concerns to the relevant Association official and, as such, the SRC will become more productive.

[Mr Comedy]

Yes.
I am a strong advocate of every nook and cranny of this university getting a look in on the representational front, as it makes sure that no-one gets overlooked.

[Al]

"every nook and cranny"

Is that rhyming slang?

[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.

[mossop]

[s][b]Al wrote on 22:20, 12th Aug 2004:
Is that rhyming slang?[/i]

Hahahahahahahahahaha




Ha

[hr]
IMAGE:www.stuord.demon.co.uk/justlarge.gif

[lyn jeffreys]

[s]Unregisted User help? wrote on 15:41, 10th Aug 2004:
is neccesary :/ I mean it's comedic sure but why so many people needed in posts that sound like they have been made up? Do some of them actually not do anything really?

two points, first the positive thing about having so many representatives, is that it allows a lot of people from differnt backgrounds and experiences the oppertunity to get involved.

the amount of work that each of these representatives do is depended on many factors, but two stick out as very important. First the initiative of the individual in the role. Second the work done is very dependent upon how much the sabaticals allow individuals to take charge of. Often the sabs are very good at taking on and doing tasks that should be completed by individual representatives.

[hr]
"We are all worms, but i do believe that i am a Glow-Worm" -Winston Churchill

[someone]

There are a crapload of new positions this year, as you can tell.


Do some of them actually not do anything really? I mean so many of them could have been lumped together quite efficiently and I can't really say how busy the Men's Issues member will be for example, or even the Women's Issues member! And what does the Sexualities and Gender post mean? All seems way to over the top politically correct to me.


Firstly, I think that the Men's Issues rep is extremely important. Men have some pretty major emotional issues, like, erm... I don't want to talk about it.

Well, there's one.

In seriousness, though, these posts all do have a reason. "Sexualities and Gender" was originally "LGBT" but was changed due to the fact that the SRC is designed to be an equal-opportunity body in an equal-opportunity Association. If we had an LGBT rep, we'd have to have a "Heterosexual Rep" as well to make sure that we were being fair and balanced (and I'm not talking about that in a Fox News Channel-stylee.) It's important to make that we have people who are dedicated to these certain causes, and then run for office based on their own personal convictions and dedication to student advocacy. At least, we hope.

As for the truly enormous number of positions, the logic went something like this. Some years back, the SRC was too big. So, the Union put its proverbial bureaucratic fork down and went on a diet.

After that, the SRC accomplished less, so I have been told...

...so now, it's been made nice and big again, and we'll probably have to meet in a nice big room and if the new guys are rambunctious, it will take a nice big block of time to get things done. Not that debate is a bad thing, but my butt gets to hurting after sitting for a few hours.

The advantage to more members is that the Union undertakes a myriad of tasks that, sometimes, the Sabbaticals (capable as they are) should not be handling. Oftentimes, it's good to have a whole bunch of people each focusing on specific issues... I (and Simon, and Bonnie, and Ben, and last year's pre-December SRC) remember doing my fair share of bitching about international student-related issues when I held the office, bitching that might not have been done if Will McFarlane (the former DoR) had been responsible for representing the international community. Not to disparage Will at all, I think he did an excellent job; however, he had a lot on his plate, and nitpicking over small constituency-related issues would have gobbled up every once of his free time.

Also, a larger crowd of people will make the union seem more accessible to the ordinary Joe. With luck, this will put "hackery" into the bin and replace it with a more community-oriented mentality. This year, I hope to see a significant non-hack presence at the meetings.... the sort of "shit or get off the pot" attitude that non-students and non-hacks have would move things along, particularly with this huge SRC.

The problem lies in the fact that oftentimes people over-step their remits and yammer on and on and on, basing their arguments on personal opinions (as I often did, much to the chagrin of everyone else), and with this big-ass SRC the Chair will have a difficult challenge keeping debate open as well as within an acceptable length of time.

Sounds like a job for Batman.

[hr]

Disco Inferno.

[Kibet]

[s]someone wrote on 05:29, 13th Aug 2004:
In seriousness, though, these posts all do have a reason. "Sexualities and Gender" was originally "LGBT" but was changed due to the fact that the SRC is designed to be an equal-opportunity body in an equal-opportunity Association. If we had an LGBT rep, we'd have to have a "Heterosexual Rep" as well to make sure that we were being fair and balanced (and I'm not talking about that in a Fox News Channel-stylee.) It's important to make that we have people who are dedicated to these certain causes, and then run for office based on their own personal convictions and dedication to student advocacy. At least, we hope.

by putting sexualities and gender together it swings the one person's workload to all of the students. if to give them more of an equal workload to the rest, two people should be covering it (one male, one female).

why would you need to have a heterosexual rep to keep things fair and balanced?

using that arguement there should be a home student's rep, a second year rep, an honours rep,a young student's rep, an able bodied rep, ethnic majorities rep and a full time student's rep.

I don't think there is a need for a men's issues rep mainly because men will keep problems to themselves.

Say a women has a problem with her boyfriend? who does she go and see? does she go to the women's issues rep- where that implies the problem is with her rather than him or does she go to the men's issues rep as it is him with the issues?

[Thackary]

She can go to whoever she feels most comfortable dealing with.

[puzzled]

[s]RJ Covino wrote on 18:39, 12th Aug 2004:
Absent students, while you may scoff, are that sizeable portion of students away from St Andrews at any given point who have their own needs and concerns which must be addressed.




Sounds great in theory, but just how many students are absent?

[Anon.]

I was for January-May last year. In fact, I still am, as I haven't yet told them I'm coming back.

[RJ Covino]

[s]puzzled wrote on 13:14, 13th Aug 2004:
Sounds great in theory, but just how many students are absent?


More than are enrolled in the part-time degree program...

[someone]

[s]Kibet wrote on 09:11, 13th Aug 2004:
Why would you need to have a heterosexual rep to keep things fair and balanced?
using that arguement there should be a home student's rep, a second year rep, an honours rep,a young student's rep, an able bodied rep, ethnic majorities rep and a full time student's rep.



Minority reps exist to represent constituencies that need specific representation tailored to their particular needs. While the "men's rep" "women's rep" and "absent rep" may seem a bit comic, the fact remains that those reps represent specific minorities that are not implied in the remits of other SRC and Joint Officers,

As for your comment, there is a second year rep. And a third year rep. And a fourth year rep. They were elected in March, which is why they are not shown as positions available for election at the October by-elections.


I don't think there is a need for a men's issues rep mainly because men will keep problems to themselves.

*Ahem.* There you go, reinforcing the common misconception that men are nothing but emotionless automatons governed by the reproductive instinct. We do whinge about stuff, we just don't tell chicks.


Say a women has a problem with her boyfriend? who does she go and see? does she go to the women's issues rep- where that implies the problem is with her rather than him or does she go to the men's issues rep as it is him with the issues?


I think the intention for the rep is not to be a counselor, although if (for example) a woman had a problem with her boyfriend, then perhaps (if the problem were severe enough) the rep could then forward her along to Student Support. Besides that, I think the SRC Men's issues/Women's issues representatives are meant to ensure that the academic environment is fair and non-discriminatory.

Anyways. For those of you who are newish/incoming freshers, I know it all sounds horribly confusing, as I was once a little fresher trotting around the societies' fayre being very confused as to what the hell was going on.

It gets easier. I recommend you all get involved, because it's quite fun, too.

[hr]

Disco Inferno.

[Bryn]

[s]Kibet wrote on 09:11, 13th Aug 2004:by putting sexualities and gender together it swings the one person's workload to all of the students. if to give them more of an equal workload to the rest, two people should be covering it (one male, one female).

why would you need to have a heterosexual rep to keep things fair and balanced?


Are you suggesting that heterosexuals have no problems regarding sexuality and gender? And that LGBT students have big problems regarding sexuality and gender that requires them to get special consideration? I find that absurd. Even if one group of people has more to bring to a representative than another, that does not mean that the rest of the students shouldn't have representation.

[hr]
http://bryn.ipfox.com

[exnihilo]

Personally, I don't think this goes far enough, we should have yet more splintered subdivisions. Many, many more. Or not.

I sincerely hope this works, but I doubt it, given the level of apathy in previous elections I can see this resulting in an enormous number of vacant positions, or an enormous number of people elected by 30 people and 1800 spoiled papers.

The problem here is the crazed notion that representation has to be by special interest rather than by physical constituency or function as have been tried in the past. All we've got now is a slew of cross-campus elections open to all students but of interest to a tiny minority at best. Unless we're restricting the franchise such that only second years can vote for the second year rep and only men for the men's officer? Potentially tricky.

I weary of the endless constitutional changes in the Association - they've been tried endlessly, but changing the officers and messing about achieves nothing. The underlying problems of student apathy and, frankly, disinterest remain and this does nothing whatever to address them.

[RJ Covino]

[s]exnihilo wrote on 16:37, 13th Aug 2004:

an enormous number of people elected by 30 people and 1800 spoiled papers.

...

Unless we're restricting the franchise such that only second years can vote for the second year rep and only men for the men's officer? Potentially tricky.

With on-line voting on the cards for the not-so-distant future, I expect that our already higher-than-average number of voters in Association elections will grow even further.

Additionally, should the Association in future wish to remove the cross-campus elected nature of student positions, I expect that on-line voting would assist in such matters as well for some of the positions, such as the year reps.

[puzzled]

[s]RJ Covino wrote on 15:40, 13th Aug 2004:
[s]puzzled wrote on 13:14, 13th Aug 2004:[i]
Sounds great in theory, but just how many students are absent?


More than are enrolled in the part-time degree program...
[/i]

Ok. But i ask again, how many? 2, 20, 200, 2500, the entire population of DRH, what?

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Pedantry: DRH would currently constitute 0 students.