Formal Dress Forum

[fearghas]

By convention, yes, the bottom button of a waistcoat is left undone - allegedly thanks to the corpulence of Edward VII (48 inch waist at coronation), who either: forget to do it up one day and was copied, was so fat it wouldn't do up, or undid it to allow him to still look good while riding a horse <- pick your apocryphal story.

Also, like not doing up the bottom button of a suit, many waistcoats are cut such that you can't actually do it up, or if you do it wrinkles and rides up, and won't let you sit down.

[Guest]

Help! I just discovered upon reviewing an invitation that "cocktail attire" was required. It's an event at an American law school where the Dean and several other prominent attorneys will likely be attending. Due to the spontaneous nature of the discovery, I find myself woefully unprepared. What manner of dress is appropriate in such situations?

[Anon.]

I have just been chided for doing up the bottom button of my waistcoat when wearing it with black tie. Is this correct?

No. The low-cut waistcoats worn in the evening should be buttoned all the way down. (Given that they've normally only got about three buttons anyway I'm surprised leaving one of them unbuttoned was even suggested.)

[DACrowe]

(Given that they've normally only got about three buttons anyway I'm surprised leaving one of them unbuttoned was even suggested.)

You might think that makes sense but you are, in fact, in error. The fashion since Edward VII has been to leave the bottom button of three (or more) buttoned waistcoats unfastened. Some waistcoats are even cut with this in mind and won't sit correctly (they'll ride up, fold etc) if you try to fasten it. A lot of people think waistcoats worn with black or white tie look better with the buttons done up and this is a perfectly legitimate opinion; there's no strict rule on it. However the typical way to wear a waistcoat is with the bottom button unfastened and, as I said, it might not sit correctly if you try so if it feels strange don't do it.

[Anon.]

I defy you to show me a picture of anyone in evening clothes with the bottom button of their waistcoat unfastened. Day clothes: yes, absolutely, bottom button always undone. Evening clothes: no.

[Guest]

Rafael Nadal demonstrating Spanish style, note the subtlety of the timepiece with the exquisitely tied bow tie:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis ... rface.html

[Mr Comedy]

A couple of questions for those who still frequent these halls...

The first is with reference to the continental fashion of wearing shoes without socks. Obviously this would not be on if one was wearing dress shoes, but I've started doing it with loafers and deck shoes, especially in this infernal American heat. Should I recant immediately, or can I continue to enjoy this seasonal style whilst the weather continues to be warm?

The second is a question on shirt manufacture, and I know there are a few who know a great deal more about this than I do. When I lived in London, I'd tend to get my shirts from Thomas Pink, who have served me well - occasionally I pop them into the tailor for an alteration or two, but mostly they've been good to me. However, now I've moved to the US, where should I be directing my custom? Most American dress shirts seem to be cut with the expectation that everyone is shaped like a large rectangular box (not without reason, if one is into people-watching). I'd prefer a shirt that is well-made, fits a slimmer build, and isn't going to have excess fabric trying to billow out of the top of my trousers on a constant basis. I prefer it if a shirt fits, rather than looking like I'm wearing a blouse or trying to sail the seven seas.
Any ideas on where I might procure such an item over here? RJC might be able to help I suppose - I've seen Brook Brothers but I don't know what they are like. I'm also happy to go bespoke, but to complicate matters further due to my vicar's stipend I can't really justify spending much above $100. This incidentally rules T.Pink out, who charge an extravagant amount for shipping shirts out to the colonies.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Mr Comedy]

I defy you to show me a picture of anyone in evening clothes with the bottom button of their waistcoat unfastened. Day clothes: yes, absolutely, bottom button always undone. Evening clothes: no.

What about this fellow Donald? Granted, he doesn't appear to know much about anything.

[Eliot Wilson]

My very good God. The FDF is still going. How heartening.

[neo2005]

Has anyone who graduated recently posted on here. In fact when did James Baster leave? It seems to have died a death since maybe 2007?? Perhaps killed by facebook?

[neo2005]

Heres a question. About 2 miles away an ex savile row tailor (ok not ex Savile row ex but round the corner) tailors my suits for £75. I buy off the peg - he alters sleeves, shoulders, jackets length, jacket width, trouser length, trouser seat and waist for circa £100. I think thats awesome and use him when I buy a cordings or pakeman suit off the peg.I cant afford to spend £3k on a bespoke suit. However my question is - is there any merit spending £100 for the same tasks on a £200 wear every day suit?

On cheaper suits I normally just get the jacket sleeves and trouser length correct. I think on cheaper suits the quality isn't as good and they won't last as long so there is no point. I do like wearing nice suits, however I don't fancy wearing them everyday because when I do wear them I look smarter than the boss and I am not sure that is a good thing.

[Anon.]

The King of Tonga arriving at Westminster Abbey for the Royal Wedding:

What a legend.

[Mr Comedy]

Heres a question. About 2 miles away an ex savile row tailor (ok not ex Savile row ex but round the corner) tailors my suits for £75. I buy off the peg - he alters sleeves, shoulders, jackets length, jacket width, trouser length, trouser seat and waist for circa £100. I think thats awesome and use him when I buy a cordings or pakeman suit off the peg.I cant afford to spend £3k on a bespoke suit. However my question is - is there any merit spending £100 for the same tasks on a £200 wear every day suit?

On cheaper suits I normally just get the jacket sleeves and trouser length correct. I think on cheaper suits the quality isn't as good and they won't last as long so there is no point. I do like wearing nice suits, however I don't fancy wearing them everyday because when I do wear them I look smarter than the boss and I am not sure that is a good thing.

Neo2005, yes there is absolutely every point in doing this. A £200 suit will look infinitely better having been taken to the tailor, indeed it will generally look better than a £500 off-the-peg suit without any tailoring (as long as said suit is not too shiny). The general point to look for is a perfect fit across the shoulders as it's damned difficult to change the cut of a jacket across the shoulders as it can change the drape of the whole jacket. Other modifications are much easier.

Looking smarter than the boss is not a bad strategy actually - it makes you look like a candidate for promotion, which is No Bad Thing.

Sartorially yours,
Mr Comedy

[Mr Comedy]

The King of Tonga arriving at Westminster Abbey for the Royal Wedding:

What a legend.

Positively smashing it up.