Whats Wrong with the UDS

[OhhMy]

What do you people want? (Mr Joss etc im talking to you) You seem only able to deride and criticise the society. I have a few facts for you.

Lots of people have been comming to LPH this year and there have been many many good debates that have captured the intrest and imagination of many of the Students at the University. We have involved other student groups and societies. While ill admit that the IV squad are not the best people to put in LPH as the styles are so differnt. But LPH is very very important and has been successfull. I would say that it is the most important part of the society. It hooked me in. But training and IV's are important as well.

We have a very good training program that is open and accessable to all. While you may deride the training program it has ment that people (such as my self) have been able to attend Debating Competitions and not make complete tits of themselves. I believe the society has enabled me to grow more confident and has improved my ability to structure and wirte arguments which has improved my essay writing ability considerably. This is due entirely to the training program and attending IV's.

You comment about IV's being nothing about style and just regergitating facts is wrong. When were you last at an IV? Any one can regergitate facts its how you analyse facts and priciples that win you an IV debate, not knowing the GDP of Chad.

There are LOADS of people participating in outside competions now that we have a training program. One of you old boys mentioned that you always used to be able to find someone in the house willing to volunteer to go to IV's and sometimes they even did well. Well now that we have a training program lots of people go and do well not just for people blessed with a considerable dose of natural ability. Sometimes after training those who are naturally timid find the courage to go and compete. Those people are left in the cold without the nurturing of the training program.

With a renewed emphasis on public speaking trainig more energy is being driven into provideing students with the tools to be funny and persuasive in LPH so they can tell Alex Salmond why he is..... (if any one is silly enough to invite him again)

In summary more and more people are comming to LPH. More societies are getting involved. The society has moved beyond the rediculous bow tie antics of the past and is slowly becomming a respected institution within the university and without; so that we can indeed get IMPORTANT external speakers such as the head of the policy insitute.

Im sorry but things change. There are reasons why we can't use univeristy rooms, and university departments are still hostile to us. I KNOW that it isn't becasuse of the previous BoT.

What sort of society do you want? Please tell us.

[exnihilo]

Stop with the historical arguments about "more and more" coming now or the improvements over the years, you know not whereof you speak. As for the image of the Society in the past versus now, again you know not whereof you speak. In fact, as far as anything more than, what, two years ago is concerned you are ignorant.

Your unstructured ramblings demonstrate your ignorance. I've been to more IVs than you'll ever attend, I used to be a graded judge, but I became heartily sick of the "ah, this is argument no 37" attitude of so many IVers. Many people come to speak, many do so for no fee or charge, you dismiss those people and their efforts by referring to IMPORTANT speakers so very snidely. You talk about other societies' involvement as though it were a new thing. It's not.

Many people have banged on about their stellar acheivements on here, minutes within only a year of the debate, almost one thousand pounds raised, double figures in the maiden speakers. Woo bloody hoo. Your jobs are not hard, minutes shoyuld come quickly, several thousands can be raised, sixty odd people should be in Maidens, events can be organised, interest can be raised and kept, LPH can be full and atmospheric, and ALL THOSE THINGS DID HAPPEN. Oh, and how about an up to date website, or that much vaunted alumnus communication? Less talk, and more of the DOING of those five minute jobs, less whinging about how hard done by you are and more bloody effort?

A great many of us "old boys" fought very hard to get our position restored with the University, you know why they hate us? Because IVers from elsewhere stole extremely valuable items from the Senate Room. You talk about bow tie antics - well those people were at least dedicated members, giving freely of their time and they knew they were in a DEBATE not at a PLAY. I'm sick of morons shushing people who heckle, it's not a performance, it's interactive.

So don't presume to lecture me, and don't presume to take that wounded/hectoring tone either. I'll thank you to remember that I have been a good friend to the Society for a long time giving of my time, money and resources to it, helping, judging, sponsoring, speaking, advocating. I do not expect to be harangued on this board by a petulant child. I don't want much, really, just a little respect for the things I and others have done, and an acknowledgement, perhaps, that we might know a little more about how things have been and how they progressed than neophytes like your good self. Too muc to ask?

You insult me, and you insult everyone else who is concerned about their society when you presume that we are nothing but bitter old hacks with time on their hands to whine. That, sir, is in your perception. Scan back through these boards and you will see countless offers of help and support and suggestions for improvements.

How dare you? I truly hope your viewpoint is not indicative of the Board's generally.

[OhhMy]

I appologise for my tone. I was petulant but I am so very frustrated. I am not on the board of ten and so my views are entirely my own.

If you want to be of help to the society (and I am sincere in the belief that you do) try to be less dismisive of how things are now. The latest conversations have been riddled with snipping comments about the society. When arguements are put before you about how things have changed and how we are attempting to improve on things done in the past or meet new challenges and open up new avenues you appear to be dismissive.

While you use historical arguments to laugh at what is being done now; but the society has changed. You appear to ignore the arguments placed infront of you from the perspective of the society as it currently is. You are coninually rude and dissmisive about the IV squad its achievements and aims which are good and well intentioned (but the IV squad does have problems no one would deny that).

You appear to me to think that everything has gone bad and that the soceity can do nothing right. I love this society and want to see it achieve and so do everyone involved in its events and functions what ever they may be (LPH, Schools, Traiing and IV). Why cant you be pleased that the IV squad is performing well and that the Training program is working and that LPH is filling up nicely.

[OhhMy]

Deleted for repetition

[exnihilo]

I would be pleased. But that's not the perspective I have. I see a huge number of teams performing not very impressively at a huge number of competitions, at a huge cost.

I see sponsors becoming concerned about the very existence of the schools' competition. And officers being reprimanded for their conduct at it.

I see much talk of the training programme, but I don't see the evidence when I come back. I'm not being wowed by the people who speak any more.

I see numbers in LPH that are lower than they used to be - lower by a long way. Partly because there are fewer seats now, but mostly because the atmosphere has been utterly squashed.

I may sometimes be harsh in my criticism, but I've served on Board and I've known about a hundred other people who have - almost all of whom would say that my intentions are utterly for the good of the Society.

I applaud effort, truly I do, but I only applaud effort when I can actually see it being made.

[OhhMy]

If you can make it come to board. Talk your concearns through with the new BoT. Or write a letter detailing your concerns to the Board. The Board really want to make a difference and try - I know them they are a scarily enthusiastic bunch.

[exnihilo]

I should also add, that I don't think everything has gone bad nor that the Society is in collapse. I just weary of being told how utterly marvellous it is. All of which being said, I enjoy being invited back, enjoy speaking in LPH and enjoy meeting the new people involved. I wouldn't want anyone to have the impression that I am hostile, merely concerned.

As for attending a meeting - which would always be preferable to a letter as it enables discussion - you will understand why that is tricky, and why I would be unwilling to make a trip over purely to do so!

[Lid]

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that Alex Salmond was one of the best debaters Laura brought to the chamber.

I utterly despise everything he stands for, but he was a bloody good speaker

[hr]

We are not drunks, we are multi-millionaires

[Dickie]

Quoting exnihilo from 23:25, 17th Apr 2006
my intentions are utterly for the good of the Society.

You are not the only one.

[hr]

http://facebook.com/p.php?id=37106107&l=217e435e0a

[Steveo]

I agree with Royce on this one, Alex Salmond is a superb and funny speaker I hope to see back in LPH. He really got an atmosphere going, a lively and hilarious one at that.

Bring that man back.

[hr]

Set your goals way too high so I can laugh when you fail.

[exnihilo]

Just a thought that didn't seem worth its own thread:

Those who are againsxt gown wearing or who don't think it necessary; how do you feel about singing the Gaudeamus, bowing to the chair, debating over the sword and so forth?

Why pick on one tradition and not the others?

[Steveo]

Give them time, give them time.

[hr]

Set your goals way too high so I can laugh when you fail.

[Webbie]

I used to go because I thought it was good banter.

I don't now because find it boring and pretentious.

Thats just me opinion, which is shared by many. No offence intended to anyone, who may have worked hard, etc. I'm just being honest and I thought you guys wanted honest opinions on what people thought of it.

[exnihilo]

That surprises me, if anything the things that might eb considered "pretentious" are being purged and it's losing all its character.

[Jono]

Debates aren't all that bad! A bit less pissing about and a bit more seriousness would probably improve it ten-fold though!

Training was a good laugh, but I'm left wondering as to how effective it's really been? IMHO once the older guys have graduated, IV is pretty much boned!


[hr]

[Mr Comedy]

I find it amusing that people come to a university that is coming close to being 1600 years old, and then complain that there are traditions around certain things. What would you expect?

With regards to IV training, I think that you will find continuing with it is the best way of progressing. After 6 months of training I went to Worlds, and bear in mind that John & Jason are the most successful IV pairing we have ever had.

[hr]

"I am in no way interested in immortality, but only in the taste of tea. " -Lu Tung

[Alex Jennings]

1600 years old?

Surely not....

[hr]

"Look, I told you when we met that I was not a leprechaun, that I was from Rhode Island, and that I was half Korean, but you said it didn't matter."

[Steveo]

Not that I'm an IV expert, but there are always good debaters coming through.

[hr]

Set your goals way too high so I can laugh when you fail.

[exnihilo]

We keep hearing the most successful pairing ever, it worries me. The Society is some hundreds of years old.

[John Stewart]

Having worked with all the competitively minded speakers this year, I have no doubts that the set up is there to keep St Andrews moving forward and hopefully continue winning titles.

Don't forget that it's about a 2-year lead in time before speakers tend to approach anything like their peak...