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"For Hire" or "Saint Royale"

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"For Hire" or "Saint Royale"

Postby Frank on Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:02 pm

A small proposal to you all. As mentioned, I was thinking of a way of incorporating a bit of team work into assasins. When proposing it, I though 'teams' or 'loners', but I had a rethink, and though it might not be an entirely fair game, I think it could both:
1- Be workable
2- Cater for more people than are interested in assassins

The Premiss

Basically, all players play, are given targets, are hunted. They all carry weapons, but each player (or group of player) gets to pick which style of fighting they'd go for.

There are two styles (easily manageable and suitably different):
Professional Mercenary These are groups of three players (sign up as a group, or we can try'n find some folks to help). Each team hunts two other teams (they'll know you're coming for them, as you will of them!), and are slightly restricted in what weapons are at their disposal (no poisons, amongst others!), and where they can use them (no projectile weapons indoors). They may, however, be allowed slightly more leniency in terms of 'collateral damage'(this is an idea). Possibiltiy for 'legal' alliances/truces and such, but teams are also vulnerable to the assasins looking for them....maybe...

Merc Teams are also allowed to go bounty hunting after any wanted players/teams, as are Assassins.

Assassins Works pretty much as they do now. Each assassins will recieve two other assassins, and one team as a target. The team won't know which assassin it is they have to look out for, but will know the assassins pseudonym.

Anyhow, how I see it working.

Each team and assassin gets a number x and y respectively (at the start). As teams/assassins are removed, the numbers are lowered (ie numbers used only for 'officials' and targetting, not by the players)

Team y targets team y+1 and y-1.
- This means each team knows who is hunting them, and who they are hunting. (given the increased knowledge/decreased secrecy associated with Mercs, this should encourage more ambushes/gunfights/battles etc)

Assassin x targets assassin x+1 and assassin x+2.
- Thus each assassin will have two more assassins after each other, and be hunting two seperate ones. By carefully orchestrating this we can ensure that once you kill someone, you pick up their 'top priorty' target (ie the oldest one that was issued to them). This should happen via Umpire allocation (ie once you hear from the Umpire, you're good to hunt them), but a dead player can tell you so that you can begin some researching.
Assassin x also hunts team x/. Each team is informed of the pseudonym of the assassin hunting them.


Not that when initially sorting the database/spreadsheet/programme/website recording the appropriate data, numbers will be allocated on a basis such as to keep a 3-number gap (if possible) between 'large' locations. Thus if we had thirty assassins, and say five groups of six people from roughly five broad locations, we'd be fine to ensure that assassins don't need to be hunting their next-door-neighbour on their very first outing (wait until one or two kills are made first!)

Anyhow, the benefit of this system would clearly be that:
1- It is a formalised system of how targets are allocated and how it all works: so everyone can, at least try, if not actually, understand how it all works.

Other modifications

Well, as noted before, the Umpiring system could do with a bit of a formalisation as well (by the end of this game we'll have had three games played, so plenty of experience).

Simply put, I'd propose divying up the 'leadership' into four broad categories:
The Umpire

The officiate and preside over rules queries, dole out solutions to 'conflicted' reports and such. They oversee the ruling of the game. I'd also be tempted to call them a Lawyer ;)

The Scribe

In testimony to Rosie's wonderful efforts on the anecdotes going with every incident, I'd heartily recommend that if we're formalising the system we keep this position open (Rosie won't be here forever...well, maybe she will, but just in case, it'd be a neat tradition to keep going should this idea outlive any of us [no doubt it'll be dead before any of this is even debated, not implemented, now that there's talking of traditions...but anyhow...])

They simply write-up the stories, and are used as a consultant/advisor to the other organisers.

Hit Squad Captain

They preside over the running of the hitsquad. An ideal position for folks interested in the game, but without enough time (or energy) to dedicate! Or, for folks who enjoy doing a (good) job!

Targeter

This is a new one, but it'd essentially be a very useful one, if not absolutely crucial in terms of 'formalising' the game and updating it (as and when required), not in the context of the actual rules: but how the targets are distributed/allocated. What information is sent out.

This person would essentially be the one 'running' the game. Ideally we'd be able to have a computer programmer or website designer who could get this done automatically, but failing that we could have 'em do it by hand.

An additional useful asset here would be in formalising how targets are allocated. You may have noticed the 'x+1, x+2' etc thing above, but generally that is simply to have it written down so that we pick one system and stick with it.

(More significantly here, as I suspect James and Janelle both done this, but it'd prevent idiots like me running the game and jumbling all the data up...if I'd only written down a concise way of organising it...[I did it consistently in the end, but there was always a chance I'd bugger up royally...so what I'm saying is: "I'd like to save Assassins from myself(and others like me)!" :p] )

Anyhow, that's the gist of it for now anyway! Hope it was in part comprehensible.

Certainly this sort of style would be useful if James and Rosie (and any others) are still interested in seeing the game accomodated by the Union as a society (this'd have to be done either way).

Also, having this setup would allow the organisers plenty of time to even begin printing out posters and harrassing the entire University into playing! (And by allocating via numbers, we'd be fine to have over 6000 players...)

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."
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Re:

Postby Amorphous on Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:53 am

And there I was hoping my identity would remain a secret. ;) Ah, well - 'tis what Sinner second-usernames are for!

I like the idea of Mercenaries provided, as I said in the other thread, that I don't have to run the thing. :P I'd be okay with the story-writing (assuming people can stand my artistic stylings for another round) but even that can be quite time-consuming - I average about 30 minutes per write-up, easily going up to or beyond an hour if it's been particularly complicated or the kill was disputed.

The other issue might be one of numbers - the fact is, Assassins is shrinking. Our first ('trial') round was the biggest when the only advertising we did was on The Sinner and by enlisting a few friends - even advertising on the Wednesday Memos this time around didn't boost the numbers (I seriously don't think we got a single sign-up as a result of that memo). Team play might attract more people, however, and the other issue (as was pointed out to me by one of my flatmates) is that many halls have their own Assassins running now and possibly people would rather play that than university-wide - Mercenaries would have the benefit of being fairly unique in its team-play element.

We could try and attract people by providing an incentive (e.g. people pay £1 to register and the winner gets all the cash) but once people feel they're owed something they can get incredibly angry if they feel they've received less-than-perfect service. In a game like Assassins where occasionally decisions have to be made that leave some people at a disadvantage, I think it's going to lead to trouble.

Lastly, you mention societies and everything - I'd actually really like to establish an Assassins Society (if nothing else, we need the webspace!) but the Union rules for what societies seem a bit difficult. All societies must have a membership fee (returning a little bit to the people-feel-they're-owed idea, and no-one will want to pay for something they feel they can get for free elsewhere) and at least two social meet-up things, as well as the AGM etc. If there's a game actually in progress at the time then people might not want to attend (though I suppose we could still demonstrate to the union that an event was held, even if no-one turned up!).


Possibly I'm being too negative - I do really like the idea, and I want it to work because I think it would be entertaining to all involved, I just wonder a little bit if it's actually do-able.
If Jack Bauer was put in a room with Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Nina Myers and handed a gun with two bullets, he'd shoot Nina twice.
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Re:

Postby Amorphous on Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:53 am

P.S. Please tell me 'Saint Royale' is a reference to 'Battle Royale'!
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Re:

Postby Frank on Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:55 pm

I don't think you're being too negative at all, rather, I think that's spot on the problems related to the whole thing!

I feel the inclusion of the option for Mercenary *or* Assassin leaves options open for everyone, that is: novelty, and for people who don't live in halls.

From what I've seen, the benefit of 'In Halls' assassins is very simple over what we have: Very easy advertising. I think that's a large failing in this regard: we tell people, they think "ooh, that's a good idea" and then forget about it! Only to remeber again once it's all started and say "Darn, I'd forgotten about that..."

Also, I think we could easily wing it by giving out flyers. Most folks'll realise what assassins *is* (or we can explain it in person), but a simple flyer in their pocket saying "Email this, this and this to here to join the game!" is easy enough to manage, and hopefully enough so folks'll remember it.

Indeed, one idea I had, but could be problematic, is actually sneaking round before lectures and doing a little 'sly' presentation/harranguing in the Hour-to-five past slot where folks are still coming it.

My fear with all that is that we'd end up with hundreds of folks...which'd be an immense problem (to do it all by hand!)!

Still, the option is there to think about!

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."
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Re:

Postby Frank on Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:06 pm

Also: Just got chucked out of the PC Classroom s there was a class on. So, as I was saying/ranting/extolling/lecturing/garbling/talking-nonsense...

Yes, I agree again with the society. It' be excellent to have the benefits of the society, but almost all the stipulations of the society are...counter intuitive, at least with a pure-assassins styling. Mercenaries, at least, allows us to work inside the Society Framework without jeopardising the secrecy aspects. Additionally, the entrance 'fee' and expectations could easily be avioded if we stipulate that proceeds go to charity and that winners gain respect, no cash. By never offering a cash (or proper-valuable) prize, folks don't feel hard-done by if it's not precisely fair.

An example: At DocSoc, they do a quiz, for prizes. However, the quiz isn't 'fair' in the slightest, and the prizes are somewhat of a joking nature (a box of tissues or a pack of condoms the day before valentines day, for instance, or more randomly: simply a tube of tesco-value washing up liquid). The point of it is to instill a sense of fun to the thing, without making it a 'competition' as such, or rather: stopping people from being angry-competetitive.

This is something that GameSoc'ers will know about. We (ideally) Roleplay and such for 'fun', not to 'win'...so it becomes really un-fun when someone is playing and trying to bend every single obscure rule, trick and ploy to their advantage...(It's not so bad if their character is the arch-villain, but otherwise...)

Anyhow, the point of societifying things is simple: We get benefits, recognition and a chance to properly 'officiate' the whole thing but we similarly suffer from the restrictions it imposes on us. In that respect, at very least, we have to examine the priorities. By diversifying into mercenaries we can get the society *and* keep assassins, but we'll likely expect a good bulk of the 'main society goers' to be entering as 'teams' rather than loners. (For one: teams allows you to be a darn sight more sociable).

As for the two socials/year, membership fee and AGM: so long as people aren't expecting anything other than an opportunity to have a (roughly) structured laugh, then we should be doing fine! If we promise them cash prizes, however, we may as well join the AU and go the full-competitive-sport-hog. That is: give up on it being a good excuse for a 'kick about'...



[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."
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Re:

Postby Amorphous on Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:40 pm

A brief message here because I should be doing proper work (unless someone can invent a way of ensuring my 5000-word review essay literally does write itself?):

When discussing societies and everything a while back with my flatmates, one of them suggested that Assassins could be some sort of sub-society/sub-committee of GameSoc. I haven't approached anyone from GameSoc about it because I was unsure of the idea, and also I know very little about who's on the committee or the general politics of the situation (sounds a bit silly, I know). My other concern was that the GameSoc committee might (quite rightly) be concerned about this bunch of strangers coming in wanting to run a game under their name and therefore want to insert one of their own into the running of Assassins, resulting in potential clashes and trouble if there was a disagreement between ourselves and said GameSoc-person.

In retrospect, I could have just asked any GameSoc-ers I know, but that would ruin the petty student politics of the situation. ;)
If Jack Bauer was put in a room with Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Nina Myers and handed a gun with two bullets, he'd shoot Nina twice.
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Re:

Postby Spadge Mince on Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:15 pm

If assassins does become part of gamesoc then surely all that needs to be done is at most get an assassins rep on the committee (which I imagine will be the current umpire). I cant imagine anyone on the current committee minding assassins being annexed. The main problem that I see is that assassins will require players to be members of gamesoc. That may again cause a drop in numbers which is something we want to avoid. I think that we should get posters distributed for the next round to see if that gets us a boost in popularity before we have to resort to making ourselves officially a society

[hr]

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Re:

Postby Frank on Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:17 pm

I know both Spadge, myself and a few others are already members of GameSoc, and certainly there is a possibility of joining the two (or failing that, running it as a Uni-wide subdivision of Andrew Melville, given how many players from there we've had here!).

We wouldn't have trouble inserting 'one of our own' (ie a tried and tested assassin) into the GameSoc Commitee (ie it wouldn't be an outsider, if we had the numbers to vote for this issue) but politically...I could see the whole marriage running away with itself. I've nothing against LARPers (considering what we're doing nowadays!), but I have horrible (and slightly chilling/reassuring in equal measure) visions of Power Armoured Space Marines running around St Andrews looking for bang kills...

Anyhow, though a sub-society of GameSoc is perhaps plausible, I don't feel it is the most desirable situation. Well, for now anyway, as we've not fully investigated any of this.

The largest problem, in my eyes, would be lumping all these cool, hip and trendy assassins with all those spotty, sweaty, spectacle-wearing trading card geeks who are Dwarfs Wizards called Imrangir at the weekends together. Obviously this is an exaggeration (and massive/horrible stereotyping), but the case remains: GameSoc itself could likely turn people away out of their prejudices.

Unless we 'sold' GameSoc as part of the package...

A final note is that there are distinct rumours/portents/omens that the Presidency of GameSoc is cursed. We don't want curses... ;)

It's possible, but I suspect if we're going at it at all (wrt societies), we should go the distance, or stay independent.

All are valid ones to look into, however.

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."
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Re:

Postby Amorphous on Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:17 pm

To be honest the issue of 'image' was also something that came to mind, though it had apparently left by the time I made that post. :) I had considered originally that it might actually go both ways - a sort of 'ew, GameSoc' reaction from people generally and then, within GameSoc, 'ew, LARPers'. I have no idea how fair that is, it was just something that it occurred to me MIGHT happen. My bigger concern was that it once again brings in the issue of payment.

And I could well believe the presidency is cursed - I'm living with the ex-president who resigned early in the academic year!

Of course, the most IMPORTANT aspect of setting up a society would be: what are we gonna call it? ;) The St Andrews Assassins Guild is a bit unwieldy (and possibly somewhat inaccurate if we're going for Mercenaries) and AssassinSoc is a little bit naff.

Also, I think it would be best to keep the gmail address for the actual running of the game. WebMail is dire, and if we were using a WebMail address this time around I think the game would have collapsed by now - if nothing else, Inbox size restrictions and its tendency to strip utterly harmless attachments would cause major problems.
If Jack Bauer was put in a room with Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Nina Myers and handed a gun with two bullets, he'd shoot Nina twice.
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Re:

Postby Frank on Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:40 am

"No! There is another!" -Yoda

Well, it's out of context, but there is the obvious option:

AssSoc (an abbreviation of Assassins of St Andrews Society)

Alternately, the rather poetic:

KillSoc

Does what is says on the tin...

I think 'Assassins St Andrews Society' at least keeps it in tie with the game of assassins, regardless of whether it's mercenaries or whatever. And even then, AssSoc still has a better image than GameSoc ;)

I 100% agree on not using WebMail. It's rather baffling, but of late I find myself being 'up and running' on half a dozen websites before the (first clicked on log-in) webmail shortcut has even begun to show anything of the page on Uni computers...

Yes, Gmail is darn handy in this instance!

So, in spite of all that, the big issue of whether to go into University Mainstream or remain on the fringe is a rather simple (at it's heart) one: payment.

Of course, it spirals into rapid complications almost immediately, but payment essentially sums up the questions. There's good benefits on both sides for everything else, but payment is the crux, and it's influence on folks within the society.

I don't suppose we could get a 'Debate' style membership, then? Ie: Everyone is a member already...

(seems fair enough: "Kill opponent = verbally abuse opponent" in many walks of life)

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."
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Re:

Postby Frank on Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:41 am

Oh, oh!

SocHire, or in full:

Society for Hire

As a play on 'ye olde' swords/guns for hire (assassins and mercenaries).

Also, it'd have the image of people hiring socks...which is amusing in itself...

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."
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Re:

Postby D-ko on Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:22 pm

Going back to your previous statement, you do already have an insider on the gamesoc comittee: Im the vice presidant:P
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Re:

Postby Amorphous on Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:35 pm

Ah! Y'see I knew we had many GameSoc-ers taking part, I just wasn't sure if they were ordinary members or had more wieldy political clout. ;)

On an unrelated note, did GameSoc send out a message about Assassins? For the hell of it I emailed the gamesoc address asking if they'd be kind enough to pass the message on and I heard nothing back, so I couldn't tell if they'd done it and not said anything/got the email and ignored it/didn't check email in time.

Not that it really matters, but these little mysteries nag at your brain sometimes.
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Re:

Postby Bullet_MaGnEt on Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:11 pm

I'd go for something a tad more hardcore myself, The Thrill Kill Club. We all know we play for the adrenoline rush.
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