http://www.interactivetayside.com/dare/
If anyone's interested in entering, please contact me at jaa@wired.st-and.ac.uk
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Dare to be Digital 2003
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Dare to be Digital 2003
by teamonkey on Sat Nov 23, 2002 11:51 am
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teamonkey
- Posts: 371
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Re:
by James Baster on Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:51 pm
Why, you doing a team? I have no plans for anything yet, but if I was free I'd be up for it.
[hr][s]Its nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong-minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout 'Oh, random-flucuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-out-moded-concept on a crutch!' - Terry Pratchet, Men at arms[/s]
[hr][s]Its nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong-minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout 'Oh, random-flucuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-out-moded-concept on a crutch!' - Terry Pratchet, Men at arms[/s]
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James Baster
Re:
by teamonkey on Sun Nov 24, 2002 5:00 pm
I was thinking about entering. Apparantly you're allowed five members in your team, two of which can be "recent graduates".
Sounds like fun - get paid £150/week to program computer games. Seriously CV-boosting, too. Since I've been applying for jobs with various games companies and don't have a very large portfolio this would be great for me...
Sounds like fun - get paid £150/week to program computer games. Seriously CV-boosting, too. Since I've been applying for jobs with various games companies and don't have a very large portfolio this would be great for me...
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teamonkey
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- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Re:
by James Baster on Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:28 am
I have no ideas but if I have no plans for this summer I would really really be up for it. Put me down as the obbseive programming type who will code bash. Althought I've never programmed a modern graphics action intensive game before I'll give it my best shot.
Two guys from comp sci did it this year.
http://www.planetquake.com/midgetwars/
They said it was good but hard work and the pay isnt is good as it first sounds.
But it would be a very cool experince.
[hr][s]Its nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong-minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout 'Oh, random-flucuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-out-moded-concept on a crutch!' - Terry Pratchet, Men at arms[/s]
Two guys from comp sci did it this year.
http://www.planetquake.com/midgetwars/
They said it was good but hard work and the pay isnt is good as it first sounds.
But it would be a very cool experince.
[hr][s]Its nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong-minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout 'Oh, random-flucuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-out-moded-concept on a crutch!' - Terry Pratchet, Men at arms[/s]
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James Baster
Re:
by teamonkey on Mon Nov 25, 2002 10:35 am
The problem is the timescale, really. 10 weeks to produce a full game is a very short time, especially if we're relatively inexperienced.
35 hours a week for 10 weeks with 5 people = 1750 man hours.
We'd probably need to do all our pre-production before summer, and we'd need to do something fairly modest. That's not a bad thing though, it just means that we won't be able to develop a complex 3D engine or anything like that. Not unless anyone's done it before, anyway. We could always licence one though
35 hours a week for 10 weeks with 5 people = 1750 man hours.
We'd probably need to do all our pre-production before summer, and we'd need to do something fairly modest. That's not a bad thing though, it just means that we won't be able to develop a complex 3D engine or anything like that. Not unless anyone's done it before, anyway. We could always licence one though
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teamonkey
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Re:
by wookiee on Mon Nov 25, 2002 11:00 pm
I'm not much of a coder, but I have ample gaming experience as you know, teamonkey. I'd love to play a part in the creative pre-production stuff. We could maybe try organising a brainstorming session...
[hr]Computer games don't affect kids;I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, people would be running around darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.....
[hr]Computer games don't affect kids;I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, people would be running around darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.....
Computer games don't affect kids;I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, people would be running around darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.....
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wookiee
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:41 am
Re:
by The Bag on Thu Nov 28, 2002 11:21 pm
I'm the team leader & another coder for the Midget Wars team (not at St Andrews, I'm at Glasgow - but I stumbled across this board).
£150 a week minus £25 for accomodation is not great, you can get much more working else where. What makes this such a worth while venture is the experience, what it's like to make a game under (semi)professional conditions. You may have worked on team projects before but it just doesn't compare.
It is hard work, you'll be lucky to just work 35hr weeks, we were working, on average, 50 - 60hr weeks EVERY week. But don't let this put you off, most of the time it does not feel like work.
Also, you will not have to produce a business plan next year - you will have to do something like a marketing proposal though.
It is hard work and the pay is not that great but it is a great experience.
If you have any questions post them & I'll check back and answer any I can.
Finally a good team is essential, a good artist can work wonders. We had 3 great coders and a fantastic artist/modeller/animator and a shitty level designer (who did good 2d work, like the icons) but couldn't really work in 3D - the Kya model is his. He did not pull his weight and this did cause tension within the group. So try and find five people you know are going to put the effort in.
£150 a week minus £25 for accomodation is not great, you can get much more working else where. What makes this such a worth while venture is the experience, what it's like to make a game under (semi)professional conditions. You may have worked on team projects before but it just doesn't compare.
It is hard work, you'll be lucky to just work 35hr weeks, we were working, on average, 50 - 60hr weeks EVERY week. But don't let this put you off, most of the time it does not feel like work.
Also, you will not have to produce a business plan next year - you will have to do something like a marketing proposal though.
It is hard work and the pay is not that great but it is a great experience.
If you have any questions post them & I'll check back and answer any I can.
Finally a good team is essential, a good artist can work wonders. We had 3 great coders and a fantastic artist/modeller/animator and a shitty level designer (who did good 2d work, like the icons) but couldn't really work in 3D - the Kya model is his. He did not pull his weight and this did cause tension within the group. So try and find five people you know are going to put the effort in.
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The Bag
Re:
by teamonkey on Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:32 pm
Hi, The Bag.
Congratulations on Midget Wars! Have you considered doing a Gamasutra/GDMag-style postmortem? http://www.gamasutra.com I'd find that really interesting. Nice website, by the way
£150 is peanuts, as is the prize money you win. I could really do with the experience though. Besides, next summer I'd probably be working 9-5 doing a tedious temping job, then 6-10 programming stuff (like I did last year). This way I get a tiny income, but they're essentially paying me to do my hobby!
The thing that worries me is the people aspect. All the people I know who'd be interested in doing this project don't go to Scottish universities. I'd be reluctant to recruit someone I don't know (and trust). But we've got until March to sort that out.
I'd considered doing something for the GameBoy Advance, since you can pick up a hardware dev kit for £120, and the C compiler and VisualBoy Advance emulator is free. Last year some team made a GBA game, but having played it it appears to be utterly rubbish (but pretty). I don't know whether this is because it's very hard to develop for the GBA or because the game is just utterly rubbish (but pretty).
Congratulations on Midget Wars! Have you considered doing a Gamasutra/GDMag-style postmortem? http://www.gamasutra.com I'd find that really interesting. Nice website, by the way
£150 is peanuts, as is the prize money you win. I could really do with the experience though. Besides, next summer I'd probably be working 9-5 doing a tedious temping job, then 6-10 programming stuff (like I did last year). This way I get a tiny income, but they're essentially paying me to do my hobby!
The thing that worries me is the people aspect. All the people I know who'd be interested in doing this project don't go to Scottish universities. I'd be reluctant to recruit someone I don't know (and trust). But we've got until March to sort that out.
I'd considered doing something for the GameBoy Advance, since you can pick up a hardware dev kit for £120, and the C compiler and VisualBoy Advance emulator is free. Last year some team made a GBA game, but having played it it appears to be utterly rubbish (but pretty). I don't know whether this is because it's very hard to develop for the GBA or because the game is just utterly rubbish (but pretty).
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teamonkey
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Re:
by The Bag on Sat Nov 30, 2002 12:06 am
Thanks
Did you play the GBA game at the Lighthouse exhibition, cause they had to cut out the boss at the end to exhibit it in public (Daemon with a nun implaled on its dick) and they had to cut out many of the small cut scene bits and the main part of the game has changed slightly as well - the enemies are easier & you can take more damage. Plus it was written by one guy in assembly.
Yeah it's hard to find people, well artists. We were lucky finding Mikey to do the art - he's a graduate from Greys so we could use him. Also we were hampered by the fact that there is not a huge Q3 mod community in the UK so finding people that had worked with that was hard. Saying that in the end NONE of the team had every worked with Q3 before so we had to learn everything in the 10wks while we were doing it. But we now know the Q3 source inside out (we scapped atleast a third of it & replaced it with our own stuff) - the summer started with us looking for help on the Q3 modding boards and by the end we were doing stuff that they hadn't even considered.
Finding a team will take you time, especially because of the restriction of it being Scottish unis only - they are hoping to open it up to the entire UK eventually.
I have written a series of 3 articles on games development/Midget Wars' development for State Magazine - a web based mag. But I'm considering condensing it down into a postmortem type article for gamasutra (just wave my IGDA card at them & make them take it
Did you play the GBA game at the Lighthouse exhibition, cause they had to cut out the boss at the end to exhibit it in public (Daemon with a nun implaled on its dick) and they had to cut out many of the small cut scene bits and the main part of the game has changed slightly as well - the enemies are easier & you can take more damage. Plus it was written by one guy in assembly.
Yeah it's hard to find people, well artists. We were lucky finding Mikey to do the art - he's a graduate from Greys so we could use him. Also we were hampered by the fact that there is not a huge Q3 mod community in the UK so finding people that had worked with that was hard. Saying that in the end NONE of the team had every worked with Q3 before so we had to learn everything in the 10wks while we were doing it. But we now know the Q3 source inside out (we scapped atleast a third of it & replaced it with our own stuff) - the summer started with us looking for help on the Q3 modding boards and by the end we were doing stuff that they hadn't even considered.
Finding a team will take you time, especially because of the restriction of it being Scottish unis only - they are hoping to open it up to the entire UK eventually.
I have written a series of 3 articles on games development/Midget Wars' development for State Magazine - a web based mag. But I'm considering condensing it down into a postmortem type article for gamasutra (just wave my IGDA card at them & make them take it
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The Bag
Re:
by teamonkey on Tue Dec 03, 2002 3:41 pm
Here's an interesting concept to add to the slowly-growing pile:
How about a web-based game? These exist already, but perhaps we can do one ourselves?
I know James had concerns about not having done any games programming before, but I know that he's not too bad with PHP. This sort of game already exists, but can we do something original with the idea?
I've got concerns about a suitable game engine - we can only create a simple one in ten weeks or so if we've got the game to do as well. We'll probably have to use an existing one, and I've only used Genesis3D (which is shite) before. On the other hand, The Nebula Device looks pretty easy to learn if we can only think up a game to go around it. http://nebuladevice.sourceforge.net/
How about a web-based game? These exist already, but perhaps we can do one ourselves?
I know James had concerns about not having done any games programming before, but I know that he's not too bad with PHP. This sort of game already exists, but can we do something original with the idea?
I've got concerns about a suitable game engine - we can only create a simple one in ten weeks or so if we've got the game to do as well. We'll probably have to use an existing one, and I've only used Genesis3D (which is shite) before. On the other hand, The Nebula Device looks pretty easy to learn if we can only think up a game to go around it. http://nebuladevice.sourceforge.net/
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teamonkey
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Re:
by teamonkey on Wed Dec 18, 2002 9:56 pm
OK, scrap the Nebula Device thing. It's a bit shite. On the other hand, I'm really warming to doing a game using an existing engine. This is despite Wookiee's excellent idea, but I don't think we'll be able to write even a simple 3D game engine like that in just 10 weeks. 
The only thing with doing a mod is that we need to do something different to be even looked at. What I mean is not a standard FPS game. And nothing Counterstrike-ish either. Oh, and we can scrap the idea of something like Natural Selection too. And not like Midget Wars either.
There are thousands of Q3A and Half-Life modding guides on the net. I've not got any modding experience for either of these engines, but I've done some modding for Jedi Knight and Mysteries Of The Sith, and it's good fun.
I'd still like to do something really original though. A 2D game that isn't a sideways/vertical shooter or a straight platformer would be cool (perhaps even for the GBA). Or a 3D game using an existing engine, that isn't a FPS.
Hmmm.
Anyway, I'm definitely up for doing this next Summer, if we can get a good team together and a good idea for a game.
The only thing with doing a mod is that we need to do something different to be even looked at. What I mean is not a standard FPS game. And nothing Counterstrike-ish either. Oh, and we can scrap the idea of something like Natural Selection too. And not like Midget Wars either.
There are thousands of Q3A and Half-Life modding guides on the net. I've not got any modding experience for either of these engines, but I've done some modding for Jedi Knight and Mysteries Of The Sith, and it's good fun.
I'd still like to do something really original though. A 2D game that isn't a sideways/vertical shooter or a straight platformer would be cool (perhaps even for the GBA). Or a 3D game using an existing engine, that isn't a FPS.
Hmmm.
Anyway, I'm definitely up for doing this next Summer, if we can get a good team together and a good idea for a game.
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teamonkey
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Re:
by James Baster on Sat Dec 21, 2002 9:27 am
Suggest pub meeting one night after exams.
[hr][s]Its nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong-minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout 'Oh, random-flucuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-out-moded-concept on a crutch!' - Terry Pratchet, Men at arms[/s]
[hr][s]Its nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong-minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout 'Oh, random-flucuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-out-moded-concept on a crutch!' - Terry Pratchet, Men at arms[/s]
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James Baster
Re:
by James Baster on Sun Dec 22, 2002 12:43 pm
Well I might be, but I sure wont be talking about work ...
[hr][s]Its nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong-minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout 'Oh, random-flucuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-out-moded-concept on a crutch!' - Terry Pratchet, Men at arms[/s]
[hr][s]Its nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong-minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout 'Oh, random-flucuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-out-moded-concept on a crutch!' - Terry Pratchet, Men at arms[/s]
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James Baster
Re:
by James Baster on Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:56 am
[s]teamonkey wrote on 18:08, 28th Jan 2003:
Right, exams should be over for most if not all of you by now.
Anyone fancy a trip to the pub for a chat?
Leaving St. Andrews from thi thu until next thu, otherwise any time.
[hr]
[s]Some reporters came to visit, and asked [the 19th century US public speaker and political figure Robert G. Ingersoll] about the rumours that his son had gotten drunk during a wild party and fell unconscious under the table. Ingersoll paused for effect, then started: "Well, first of all, he didn't fall under the table. And he wasn't actually unconscious. For that matter, he didn't fall. And there wasn't any party, and he didn't have anything to drink.... And, by the way, I don't have a son."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/ ... 27721.html [/s]
Right, exams should be over for most if not all of you by now.
Anyone fancy a trip to the pub for a chat?
Leaving St. Andrews from thi thu until next thu, otherwise any time.
[hr]
[s]Some reporters came to visit, and asked [the 19th century US public speaker and political figure Robert G. Ingersoll] about the rumours that his son had gotten drunk during a wild party and fell unconscious under the table. Ingersoll paused for effect, then started: "Well, first of all, he didn't fall under the table. And he wasn't actually unconscious. For that matter, he didn't fall. And there wasn't any party, and he didn't have anything to drink.... And, by the way, I don't have a son."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/ ... 27721.html [/s]
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James Baster
Re:
by James Baster on Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:10 pm
Closing date 14th April 2003. We got plenty of time. Lets pick a night in the first week of term. Not Thu, good debate I want to go to. I suggest Monday 8pm, Whey Pat to get the ball rolling.
[hr][s]Some reporters came to visit, and asked [the 19th century US public speaker and political figure Robert G. Ingersoll] about the rumours that his son had gotten drunk during a wild party and fell unconscious under the table. Ingersoll paused for effect, then started: "Well, first of all, he didn't fall under the table. And he wasn't actually unconscious. For that matter, he didn't fall. And there wasn't any party, and he didn't have anything to drink.... And, by the way, I don't have a son."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/ ... 27721.html [/s]
[hr][s]Some reporters came to visit, and asked [the 19th century US public speaker and political figure Robert G. Ingersoll] about the rumours that his son had gotten drunk during a wild party and fell unconscious under the table. Ingersoll paused for effect, then started: "Well, first of all, he didn't fall under the table. And he wasn't actually unconscious. For that matter, he didn't fall. And there wasn't any party, and he didn't have anything to drink.... And, by the way, I don't have a son."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/ ... 27721.html [/s]
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James Baster
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