Wired Soc should be renamed Games Soc

[Batman]

Out of interest what does wired soc do??

From there website they say that they:

What we do

Offer free hardware and software technical support to members (including Windows/MacOS/Linux). If your computer decides to break, we’ll see if we can sort out the problem for you. This also covers installations and upgrades
Hold and publicise lectures, seminars and events of a computer-related nature. In previous years we’ve had Microsoft, Sun and Apple come and talk to us.
Organise social and computer-related events. ET, anyone? Last semester we organised a games event at the union, and we plan to hold another event soon.
Offer discounts on computer software, hardware and literature to our members. Including 20% off O’Reilly books
Run a selection of computers for the benefit of members and anyone else with access to the internet. Our WWW server, FTP server and others.
All members get a Linux shell account, 1GB web space and an e-mail address. For running programs, such as GAIM, or for familiarising yourself with Unix and X via VNC.

and from the constitution

To organise social and recreational events for its members
To organise and publicise lectures, seminars and events of a computer-related nature
To offer discount to its members on the purchase of computer hardware
To operate and maintain a number of computers for the provision of services to its members
To organise workshops of interest to those wishing to develop their computing skills
To encourage, though the process of engagement, the use of a variety of operating systems
To give limited technical support to the Members

But when I go to the website I don't see any information relating to seminars, lectures, events etc, I do not see workshops advertised, I do not see tutorials/walkthroughs, info for interacting with University Systems or the wired systems, I don't see much in educating people in relation to the ways of IT, I don't see information about what software is available to download that is needed to interact with Wired Systems.

All I do see are game related anecdotes, Gaming Information.

So are wiredsoc failing with respect to their constitutional aims and turning into a Society for Gamers and not a society for people interested in IT and that they should re-brand themselves and change their constitution to meet the societies current stance.



[hr]

Have you ever danced with the Devil in the Pale Moonlight!

[QuadrAlien]

...So you're suggesting we have two separate entities entitled Games Soc and GameSoc? Are you aware of the term "complete bureaucratic nightmare"?

[hr]

Somewhere in chaos we all find ourselves,
This destruction is the only tale we tell,
White is black, black is white,
Right is wrong and wrong is right,
Nothing ever feels this cold inside your heart...

[turnblad]

Well, we do much more than that. As well as the tech support to members (e-mail to committee@wired.st-and.ac.uk for more, or just come on to our IRC channel by directing your client to wired.st-and.ac.uk and joining channel #welcome or by just going to http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/Other/IRC

As well as this we also offer the 1GB of webspace and the SSH, which you kindly mentioned in your opening post, thanks for reminding everyone about that.

With regards to events, yes we do arrange gaming events, in fact we had an extremely successful one just 8 days ago, but that isn't all - we have had 2 pub crawls this academic year (one on Friday just gone in fact) as well as others of different variety in the pipeline.

With regards to talks, or even any more events you would like to see, we are always happy to have those, and if you know anyone that would be willing to come please e-mail us at the above address, or even to me (turnblad@wired.st-and.ac.uk) with details and I'll be happy to investigate for you.

Andrew Jones, Wired Secretary.

[hr]

The purpose of life is to die. So everyone should eat pie.

[Fawksie]

"We at WiredSoc believe that computers are an essential part of everyday life. It is becoming harder and harder to get by in the world without touching a computer for whatever reason, especially in academia. As using computers becomes more of a necessity, we wish to ensure that everyone has the ability to use, benefit and understand them."

"WiredSoc’s primary intention is to bring the benefits of computing to all students of the University, and to make computer technology as trouble free as possible for our members. To this end, we are a service oriented society.

We believe that computers are important to students; you need to learn how to use them in most careers, and we are happy to help give you a head start. We want to bring the benefits of new and evolving technologies, particularly those involved in the Internet, to our members."

First let me say that the above rightly seems a little outmoded, and then by way of explanation allow me to give you a little background.

When WiredSoc was founded in 1997, computers, as I'm sure you recall, played a much smaller role in everyday life and student life than they do now.

In 1997 ITS replaced their single ailing digital camera, their single 35mm slide scanner, and bought two data projectors to be shared among the entire University. They were mainly worried about viruses and Y2k.

ResNet did not exist, if you were lucky enough to own your own computer and lived in a hall room with a telephone socket you could dial up to the University network via SARA. Hall computer rooms were maintained on an ad-hoc basis by volunteers and generally comprised aged and unreliable hardware.

Access to computers was mainly via ITS computer classrooms, consisting of Macintoshes (the majority), Sun workstations and IBM compatible PCs (this was the year some of them were upgraded to Pentium-based machines). Your user account was on a Sun village server, and you needed a basic knowledge of UNIX to do pretty much anything, including send and receive e-mail (with PINE) and to store and retrieve files on your meagre disk quota. Even when using a PC or Mac it was necessary to connect via a terminal session to your Sun server. There was no GUI on Sun machines, save for a few in the Purdie Building which received an upgrade to Solaris 2.5.1. Nowadays users are disallowed direct access to the modern equivalent of the village servers and access to a proper shell is by application only, and on only one server. It's simply not necessary.

ITS ran a "Basic IT Course" which lasted 6 hours and required a £5 deposit. This furnished you with enough knowledge to use PINE and basic UNIX functions, as well as word-processing (foreign to most students and increasingly in demand by departments) and Web browsing using Netscape. Incidentally, there was also an advanced web browsing course which taught skills now second-nature to most students like the use of search engines.

WiredSoc provided its members with greater engagement with computers and computing by running a server which could be accessed by members, on which they could self-educate themselves to a greater extent than was previously possible. It ran workshops and talks on computing, aimed at bringing the topic closer to the average student.

Now, students are far more familiar with computers, having experienced them at home, at school, and throughout their time here. The average student no longer requires knowledge of command line UNIX, they are by and large Windows users and the command line is alien to them. They are practiced and savvy users of the Internet, and they can all type up an essay. They are gamers. Course content is delivered online, students are expected to check their e-mail regularly as it is now an official mode of communication. ResNet is now in every residence bedroom, and computer rooms in halls and the wider University have come under ITS' control, maintenance and funding, and as a result are better for it.

You can clearly see that WiredSoc's original purpose has therefore shifted somewhat, and I don't think this is any bad thing. It's no longer necessary for us (or ITS) to teach the ordinary student how to navigate a UNIX filesystem, or how to use Google.

We continue to provide computing services to members, now more than ever (I'm sure you noticed we now maintain five machines instead of one, with an upgrade planned). People still have the opportunity to experiment with Linux and with coding, particularly those who are not already Computer Science students. We continue to offer discount on computing purchases, we organise social events, we provide technical support, and yes, we are even trying to organise talks and seminars.

I personally contacted (on numerous occasions) six major IT/computing companies last year in an effort to secure speakers (Apple, Cisco, Microsoft, HP, iDelta, Sun Microsystems) and received tentative replies only from Cisco, which never came to fruition. This year the Secretary and Events Co-ordinator have been jointly attempting to make useful contact with the same companies and several more, to no avail. It is proving exceedingly difficult and frustrating, but we are not intending to abandon this section of our core aims. If you feel you can help, please be my guest.

Your concerns about WiredSoc becoming a society focused entirely on gaming are not unique, the issue was raised by the School of Computer Science several months ago, but I hope I've demonstrated to you as we did to them that this is not the case.

I think it is natural that WiredSoc has moved to embrace gaming as a greater part of its interests, the computer gaming scene was after all essentially in its infancy or at least childhood when WiredSoc was founded and has matured with the society. Many people view gaming as an important part of WiredSoc, and many of our members are avid gamers. We have changed to supply the demand that is current. People no longer demand classes and talks, but they do demand gaming services, particularly as ResNet becomes more and more restricted. Playing on WiredSoc's servers is sometimes the only way to play games with others. We have increased the number of gaming events we organise, and the last was the most successful yet. I do not feel that our increased focus on gaming is without cause. Equally I don't think that we have forgotten the rest of our aims and values.

The number of active members in the society this year is the highest in the memory of the current committee. We haven't had it particularly easy in the last number of years, having suffered a serious decline, but we have been working to rebuild the society, and it is clearly succeeding.

The information on the website is fairly outdated, and indeed missing in parts, but we are working to improve it.

If you'd like to discuss this (or anything else), you're most welcome to join us on IRC as has been pointed out, or come along to any committee meeting (the next is on Wednesday at 7pm in DRA, you'll get more accurate geographical details on IRC or one of us can meet you in the foyer beforehand and take you to it). Incidentally, are you a member of the society?

Adam Maye
WiredSoc President

[Batman]

Couple of points:

You can clearly see that WiredSoc's original purpose has therefore shifted somewhat, and I don't think this is any bad thing. It's no longer necessary for us (or ITS) to teach the ordinary student how to navigate a UNIX filesystem, or how to use Google.

Thats why I posted the original post, the aims of the society are changing and shouldn't the offical stances too be changed.

I personally contacted (on numerous occasions) six major IT/computing companies last year in an effort to secure speakers (Apple, Cisco, Microsoft, HP, iDelta, Sun Microsystems) and received tentative replies only from Cisco, which never came to fruition. This year the Secretary and Events Co-ordinator have been jointly attempting to make useful contact with the same companies and several more, to no avail. It is proving exceedingly difficult and frustrating, but we are not intending to abandon this section of our core aims. If you feel you can help, please be my guest.

Companies can be arseholes and it is hard if they are not interested in hosting talks etc. But has the society tried becoming the "student ambassador" for related companies on campus, wouldn't they have greater incentive on hosting talks if you where in a way representing them, obviously you have to be impartial and try and become "student ambassador" for as many companies as possible.

Your concerns about WiredSoc becoming a society focused entirely on gaming are not unique, the issue was raised by the School of Computer Science several months ago, but I hope I've demonstrated to you as we did to them that this is not the case.

I agree with the Computer Sciences original stance.

I think it is natural that WiredSoc has moved to embrace gaming as a greater part of its interests, the computer gaming scene was after all essentially in its infancy or at least childhood when WiredSoc was founded and has matured with the society. Many people view gaming as an important part of WiredSoc, and many of our members are avid gamers. We have changed to supply the demand that is current. People no longer demand classes and talks, but they do demand gaming services, particularly as ResNet becomes more and more restricted. Playing on WiredSoc's servers is sometimes the only way to play games with others. We have increased the number of gaming events we organise, and the last was the most successful yet. I do not feel that our increased focus on gaming is without cause. Equally I don't think that we have forgotten the rest of our aims and values.

Can the people who think gaming is an important part of wiredsoc be impartial on that view and that they are not in fact the avid gamers out to further their love for gaming. Yes I do realize that societies that offer services need to change to meet the demand, but I think that gaming is not the core demographic that "wiredsoc" should be aiming to serve and I am not saying that they should stop the gaming services. I think that as a service orientated society you can do a lot more servicing

As you said earlier:

We believe that computers are important to students; you need to learn how to use them in most careers, and we are happy to help give you a head start. We want to bring the benefits of new and evolving technologies, particularly those involved in the Internet, to our members."

From this statement you can easily see various new potential services wiredsoc can offer not only members but also other societies.

The information on the website is fairly outdated, and indeed missing in parts, but we are working to improve it.

The older version of the website had much more information than the current one, and in my personal opinion looked better.

If you'd like to discuss this (or anything else), you're most welcome to join us on IRC as has been pointed out, or come along to any committee meeting (the next is on Wednesday at 7pm in DRA, you'll get more accurate geographical details on IRC or one of us can meet you in the foyer beforehand and take you to it).

I used to use IRC in days gone by, but I have left those days behind and I do not see my self returning to them any time soon. As for attending a committee meeting, I am not prepared to reenact the charge of the light brigade or a Forlon Hope, if the society wants to talk to me enough of the "older" (longer serving) members know who I am.

Incidentally, are you a member of the society?

I am not or ever will be a member of wiredsoc.

[hr]

Have you ever danced with the Devil in the Pale Moonlight!

[Fawksie]

Quoting Batman from 10:16, 18th Feb 2008
Companies can be arseholes and it is hard if they are not interested in hosting talks etc. But has the society tried becoming the "student ambassador" for related companies on campus, wouldn't they have greater incentive on hosting talks if you where in a way representing them, obviously you have to be impartial and try and become "student ambassador" for as many companies as possible.

And that would be, what, Apple? Who already seem to be doing a pretty good job flooding Facebook with advertising without the help of a student society? It's questionable whether acting as the "ambassador" to a company would be desirable to the society or even permissible by the Association.

I agree with the Computer Sciences original stance.

You're aware however that DCS' airing of their grievances was apparently born of a desire to evict the society and its equipment from the building? They claimed that WiredSoc and DCS had grown apart, and I argued that that was as much their fault as it was ours.

Can the people who think gaming is an important part of wiredsoc be impartial on that view and that they are not in fact the avid gamers out to further their love for gaming. Yes I do realize that societies that offer services need to change to meet the demand, but I think that gaming is not the core demographic that "wiredsoc" should be aiming to serve and I am not saying that they should stop the gaming services.

Why do they need to be impartial? They're quite entitled to their views. None of them are so blinded by their love for gaming that they want WiredSoc to become a purely gaming-oriented society. On one hand you seem to say that we should discount their opinions and demands in the interests of preserving the "core demographic", and on the other you say you want both gaming and service-providing to continue. So do we!

I think that as a service orientated society you can do a lot more servicing.

...

From this statement you can easily see various new potential services wiredsoc can offer not only members but also other societies.

No, not particularly easily. Would you care to elucidate?

The older version of the website had much more information than the current one, and in my personal opinion looked better.

Not much more information. It depends how far back you go. In 2001 there was more information, but much of it was missing. And yes, I personally think it used to look better, and before that, it looked even better But that's by the by.

if the society wants to talk to me enough of the "older" (longer serving) members know who I am.

I know who you are. I should have stalked you more thoroughly before replying in the first instance It works both ways. What stopped you approaching someone in person instead of bringing it up on the Sinner? Even I've been present in the lab of late, and I was at the pub crawl on Friday.

[turnblad]

The things that I am getting from these posts of yours Batman is that you seem to want to just stir up trouble for the hell of it.

To go along with the things that Fawksie has already (IMO excellently) covered in his posts I would say you have a greater chance of actually putting forward your concerns in what sounds more constructive than whiny, which I am afraid your posts sound.

So, here are my points, based on a couple of things that you have said...

As for attending a committee meeting, I am not prepared to reenact the charge of the light brigade or a Forlon Hope, if the society wants to talk to me enough of the "older" (longer serving) members know who I am.

and

I am not or ever will be a member of wiredsoc.

Both scream a bit of victim posturing and screeching foul without knowing all the facts.

I have been a member of the Wiredsoc committee for around a year, with attending meetings before that. The committee has changed personnel, as student society committees do often, and is barely recognisable from the first meeting I attended, bar a couple of core people.

I can tell you one thing though, I have never seen you at one of the meetings I have attended (yes, I know who you are as well), yet you claim a futility for coming with your whole light brigade "oh, I'm not being a martyr" comment and demanding changes to a society you have demonstrated you know very little about, and are not willing to participate in beyond telling us how wrong we actually are.

On this, forgive me for taking from it all that you are not actually interested in the society or its aims, instead you wish to seemingly stir up trouble rather than debate and therefore not taking much notice of your comments any more.

[hr]

The purpose of life is to die. So everyone should eat pie.

[Batman]

It's questionable whether acting as the "ambassador" to a company would be desirable to the society or even permissible by the Association.

That is a fair enough point, the idea for an "ambassador" was only a suggestion and something that was for you to think about.

You're aware however that DCS' airing of their grievances was apparently born of a desire to evict the society and its equipment from the building? They claimed that WiredSoc and DCS had grown apart, and I argued that that was as much their fault as it was ours.

Yes and you are quite right.

No, not particularly easily. Would you care to elucidate?

A lot of societies have websites, people need to be able to update their websites, learn how to write new websites, can the university servers handle CMS, do the wired servers provide CMS. Couldn't this be a new avenue of servicing, being able to provide tutorials, walkthroughs etc for website admin usage. Or articles on what new technologies are and if they are useful.

Why do they need to be impartial? They're quite entitled to their views. None of them are so blinded by their love for gaming that they want WiredSoc to become a purely gaming-oriented society. On one hand you seem to say that we should discount their opinions and demands in the interests of preserving the "core demographic", and on the other you say you want both gaming and service-providing to continue. So do we!

Sorry i should have been more clear in that I meant the committee members, I do apologize , but impartiality is still important when it comes to figuring out the directions that a group must go in. And from your reply youi ndicate that there is nothing to fear.

I know who you are. I should have stalked you more thoroughly before replying in the first instance It works both ways. What stopped you approaching someone in person instead of bringing it up on the Sinner? Even I've been present in the lab of late, and I was at the pub crawl on Friday.

[/quote]
Facebook stalking is useful isn't it. And I also wanted this to be an open debate on wiredsoc to see what the general feeling and stance was and I did not intend it to be an attack on the society.

[hr]

Have you ever danced with the Devil in the Pale Moonlight!

[Batman]

Both scream a bit of victim posturing and screeching foul without knowing all the facts.

The charge of the light brigade and the forlon hope where used as examples of a small few heading into a situation where they would face certain death, and was used as an indication that I am not prepared to do that.
And from my previous post I have indicated that this should be an open debate and nothing more.

I can tell you one thing though, I have never seen you at one of the meetings I have attended (yes, I know who you are as well), yet you claim a futility for coming with your whole light brigade "oh, I'm not being a martyr" comment and demanding changes to a society you have demonstrated you know very little about, and are not willing to participate in beyond telling us how wrong we actually are.

I have not once demanded anything in my previous posts, all of them contained suggestions that are aimed at encouraging debate and for you to take that interpretation on what i have suggested is your own mistake and I will finish by referring to my original post.

So are wiredsoc failing with respect to their constitutional aims and turning into a Society for Gamers and not a society for people interested in IT and that they should re-brand themselves and change their constitution to meet the societies current stance.

From my perspective I interpret that statement as a question that opens up debate and does not demand anything.

[hr]

Have you ever danced with the Devil in the Pale Moonlight!

[Fawksie]

Quoting Batman from 15:33, 18th Feb 2008
A lot of societies have websites, people need to be able to update their websites, learn how to write new websites, can the university servers handle CMS, do the wired servers provide CMS. Couldn't this be a new avenue of servicing, being able to provide tutorials, walkthroughs etc for website admin usage. Or articles on what new technologies are and if they are useful.

I have no idea whether ITS' student webspace accounts are capable of handing CMS, since I can't find any information about them on the new website. WiredSoc is not the only entity guilty of having an incomplete website...

WiredSoc's servers do not provide CMS out of the box, in the same way that they don't provide pretty much anything out of the box. We provide the basic tools, and it's up to the users to build their own system or install one. Using WiredSoc's servers has always been about self-teaching, geared towards experimenters and people who wish to learn (with our support) by doing things themselves. A similar ethos can be seen in the communities which arise around many public shell server, for example http://www.polarhome.com/ .

Even when WiredSoc was more active in building sites for members on request they were largely written by hand. We could probably move towards providing a standard build CMS tailored for societies, but in the last year, all the societies that have approached us have simply asked for an account and taken on the task of building their website themselves. There has been little demand for pre-made frameworks, a trend which is paralleled by the poor takeup of society minisites on yourunion.net. Most societies with a viable web presence still use simple sites that were hand-written several years ago, for example Chaossoc, QuantumSoc and AstroSoc. They have little need for full CMS functionality.

Facebook stalking is useful isn't it. And I also wanted this to be an open debate on wiredsoc to see what the general feeling and stance was and I did not intend it to be an attack on the society.

Fair enough. And no, not Facebook, simple Sinner stalking. You wrote your ITS username in an old post.

[Batman]

Fair enough. And no, not Facebook, simple Sinner stalking. You wrote your ITS username in an old post.

Good stalking!!

[hr]

Have you ever danced with the Devil in the Pale Moonlight!

[d_24]

Quoting Batman from 10:16, 18th Feb 2008
I am not or ever will be a member of wiredsoc.

Then what exactly is your beef?

Also do your research and not your stalking. There was a poll on the main board asking whether there should be a seperate gaming society the overwhelming response was that there was no need and that WiredSoc adequately fulfilled that niche.

[hr]

Before Bauer...There Was House

[Batman]

As far as I am concerned my "beef" was

And I also wanted this to be an open debate on wiredsoc to see what the general feeling and stance was and I did not intend it to be an attack on the society.

Also do your research and not your stalking. There was a poll on the main board asking whether there should be a seperate gaming society the overwhelming response was that there was no need and that WiredSoc adequately fulfilled that niche.

My arguments was not to do with the idea that there should be a separate gaming society and that yes, wiredsoc does provide services for gamers and that they do adequately fulfill that and i did not say they should stop those service. But how does the level of attention that they give to gaming compare to the level of attention they give to the other services that they offer and is that something that needs to be addressed.

[hr]

Have you ever danced with the Devil in the Pale Moonlight!

[Power Metal Dom]

I wasn't aware that WiredSoc had concentrated mostly on one thing rather than another recently or at any point. To my mind, as an unbiased non-member, WiredSoc had always provided computing services to those who requested them, just because there's been more call for a spot of gaming recently certainly doesn't mean that that has become the society's only concern. If memory serves the society had always fancied some gaming now and again!

If you're still convinced that the society has been unfairly focused on just one aspect then maybe it's simply a case of supply and demand? If more people (me for certain!) are demanding more gaming then of course the societies focus will shift slightly. Just as I'm sure that when people need a different service the society will shift again. That's what societies do, RockSoc being a prime example.

[hr]

Like flames on fuel...upon metal I drool