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Geoscience at St. Andrews

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Geoscience at St. Andrews

Postby Applying on Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:49 pm

I've applied for Geoscience at St. Andrews, and though I haven't got an offer yet, if I do, I think it'll be my first choice. However, I've got a few queries and questions, about which I'd be grateful for any advice.

The first is about the quality of the teaching - I've read elsewhere that the lecturers are boring, and that the main lecturer fore the first semester is "possibly the boringest and nastiest person ever", which is putting me off a bit. So what's the teaching like, is the subject well taught and made interesting, or just a bit of a slog?

I'm also bit worried that, in terms of employment, Geoscience at St. Andrews might be viewed as a bit of a 'watered down version of Geology' - is this the case? Or is it really just Geology, but with some Geophysics and Geochemistry too? I'd actually prefer that combination to straight Geology, and am really mainly worried that it'll be too much like environmental geoscience/earth science courses, which appear to be focussed more on the effects of natural disasters etc.

Finally, while I know that St. Andrews has got a great reputation as a whole, what's the reputation of the Geog/Geosciences department like?

Any help about this would be reeeallly appreciated, the decision about where I'm going to spend the next four years of my life is worrying me a bit!
Applying
 

Re: Geoscience at St. Andrews

Postby What? on Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:47 pm

I think you'll be ok, but we got this email from the school:
The University Executive has reached the decision that the Geoscience UG
degree is to be withdrawn for the 2010 entry.

I want to assure you that this will have no impact on the Geography degree programme. Nor will it affect the current degree programme in Geoscience - commitments to existing students, and to those students who will be admitted for the 2009-10 session, will be honoured.


I'm a Geography MA student so am not best place to comment on the rock lovers, but you will probably do first year geography and I found it pretty enjoyable and untaxing yet still find I've learned a lot.

St Andrews G&G department is the best there is in Scotland I believe (though Edinburgh will, as usual, stick up a fight). Geographers are also some of the most employable people around - and I heard that from an accounting open day at Glasgow! No doubt Geoscientists fall into this category as well.

Good luck!
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Location: St Andrews

Re: Geoscience at St. Andrews

Postby rtf on Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:03 am

First things first, Geoscientsts are more employable than both Geographers and Geologists, as once you start to study the subject you'll realise that the possibilities in industry are endless. A "Watered down version of Geology" - is more like a Beefed up and industry-linked version of Geology. Secondly don't base your decision on anything you hear about first year lecturers. Some lecturers are admittedly not the liveliest people in the world, but the basis of your choice should be about how and what you will specialise in for the final two years, and if you find a good lecturer that shares your interest you're sorted. Regards that email, the department has made certain your degree will not be affected. We do have one of the best departments in Scotland, with the most amazing field trips and natural geology around us, in fact less than a 2 minute walk from the Geo department. The reason its called Geoscience is because its slightly broader than looking at damn rocks, which as stated before makes you more employable, and does include Geophys and some Geochem elements. The quality of teaching is good, if you want it to be... In other words the more you put in, the more you get out. I don't tend to put much in, and am now regretting that I should have made more use of my time here. Most lecturers are kind, although busy, and will help you out in their spare time if you have an queries. Most people approach first year as though they are still at school, but as soon as you get over the fact that in Geoscience, here, the lecturers and lab demostrators are more like (slightly more knowledgeable) friends, the amount you will learn will increase.

Any more questions ask away...
btw if you hadnt guessed, I'm a final year Geoscience student...
rtf
 

Postby Iain on Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:18 am

I graduated in 2007.

Sadly, Grahame Oliver and Ian Alsop, good people for structural and metamorphic geology, have left the University and I think have been replaced with short-contract staff. Ian in particular was an excellent teacher. The degree will not run after next year for new undergrads - so you will finish your degree in an atmosphere of change, and probably see a number of staff depart during your time. I have no idea if geosciences will be taught in a separate department or if that really is "it" for the subject. The human geographers run the department and our voice has been drowned out, the University sees Geosciences as expensive and not bringing in enough research grants.

However, out of the doom and gloom, you still should get a very good training and be very employable afterwards.

Your questions:
"possibly the boringest and nastiest person ever"
Colin Donaldson lectures for a large part of first semester. He takes things slowly and methodically. He's not nasty, just very restrained. Some people really don't like him, but I cannot understand why, he is the best at getting ideas across in the classroom. People forget that you are there to work. It is far from boring, you get field trips almost from the very start, and (bargain!) the lab classes are only two hours long instead of three as they were in my day. Anyone who disses Colin should have a bit of respect for a good scientist.

It's only a slog if you don't want to become a geologist!!!!

"in terms of employment, Geoscience at St. Andrews might be viewed as a bit of a 'watered down version of Geology' - is this the case?"
Not at all. Many companies recognise the quality (and particularly the field-based abilities) of St. Andrews graduates - your degree is one of the best to have. It would be called geology if we had a Professor of Geology. It used to be called so. You can get a very rounded geology degree without going too close to environmental. Hazards are for physical geographers.

There's plenty other options for subjects in first and second year outside of Geography if you don't fancy that. I did Chemistry, Physics, IT and Sustainable Development - something about not liking human geography!

"Reputation of the Geog/Geosci department as a whole?"
Never heard any other students at the university say bad things about geology and geography. Most ire seems to be directed at film studies or art history! Outside, I've said, a Geoscience degree will stand you in good stead.

Sorry, that's probably a bit of a biased viewpoint since I've ended up doing a PhD (supervised by a St. Andrews graduate). But I hope that helps.
Unwind: touch the brine; Take some bread: break some wine
I can see the water line; Red below the Lewis sun
Iain
 
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:15 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Geoscience at St. Andrews

Postby Applying on Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:04 am

Fantastic replies - thankyou - they've allayed a lot of my fears. I must say though, the E-Mail is quite worrying (particularly as St. Andrews is the only place I'm still waiting for an offer from... but then they're notoriously slow, so hopefully that's not something I should be worried about... I hope!)
Applying
 

Re: Geoscience at St. Andrews

Postby Informant on Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:02 am

Just to clarify for anyone who saw the above post, the future axe-ing of Geoscience looks very unlikely. The action was brought about by three malcontent geography staff who acted as 'rogues', making a decision that they had no business or authority to make. By the time anybody in the faculty business committee had realised this the process was well underway and they didn't want to lose face. Following the defence of the subject by staff and students and with some input from the principles office the decision to suspend teaching was deferred for a year. As a very senior position in the University's hierarchy is going to be filled by by a well known (and actively researching) geoscientist and FRS, it would appear that the intention is to brush the whole matter under the carpet and pretend everybody is getting on. St. Andrews give a great Geoscience degree though you will have to work your arse off for it. Colin is boring in first year but gets more interesting later and it is entirely untrue to say that he is nasty. Geoscientists are much more employable than geographers and better in bed too (Iain excluded) and geoscience is a much more comprehensive degree than 'watered down geology'. To be honest geology is mostly taught in the same way as this geoscience course otherwise the graduates would be relatively out-of-date and unable to use the multitude of skills required of them in the modern world.
Informant
 


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