Save Hamilton

[someone]

I think this warranted a new thread. Would anyone like to protest the decision to sell Hamilton?

I would.

Ergo,

http://www.geocities.com/someone/hamilton.html

Have fun.

[hr] Disco Inferno.

[Monster Sink]

An email template is not the way to conduct such a campaign.

I imagine the quaestor already receives around 30 email templates a day, offering all sorts from Viagra to penis enlargements.

A simple spam filter could instantly strim any mass mailing from the inbox.

[someone]

What else would you suggest, then?

[amac]

When it comes to a choice between money and students in St Andrews, money will win easily. I can't see a handful of e-mails wiping 20 million reasons to sell from their minds.

Also, your link isn't working for me :S

[Monster Sink]

I'd suggest writing letters. Written on paper.

And posted.

[someone]

AMAC:

The link should be working now.

Monster Sink:

The news just broke yesterday. Give me some time, here.

In any event... come on, people. The Uni blatantly did this at the time they did to make sure the students wouldn't be able to mount any opposition to the move.

Plus, let's be frank--- is Hamilton really worth £20 Million? I think that the sum in question (the approximate sum reported by the Courier) is far too little for a building of its size, popularity and importance.

I'm going to keep plugging away at this thing. Anyone who was annoyed over the rent rises, fees increase (for Americans) or any other such actions needs to send the University a message that the students won't just keel over and die.

*Sigh*


[hr]disco inferno.

[Monster Sink]

I applaud your persistence and motivation.

However, perhaps you should contemplate the quality of the accommodation in Hamilton Hall.

Perhaps you should realise that the only factor worth saving is the frontage, and that it would be more profitable to tear down the guts of the building and replace them with something modern, efficient, or at the very least with floors that remain level.

With such an inefficient and outdated building as stands at present, how long would it take the University to generate £20m (irrespective of the rent rises)?

[BasilSeal]

Frankly, I doubt that the university would be much impressed by letters, whether posted or emailed--or, for that matter, any other form of student protest.

However, if people really are interested in retaining Hamilton as a university residence, then they'll have to find a way to convince the university that it can raise a similar sum through another use of the Hall. Clearly, retaining it *purely* as a residence hall won't work. But perhaps converting part of it into timeshare accomodation through a company that the Union has some say in might. (This is just a quick thought, by the way--not a well-thought out scheme.) Alternatively, some form of protest that is backed by university donors (such as alumni) would be likely to be taken more seriously by the university thn one that was solely student based.

just a couple of thoughts--but I think that ot's important to bear in mind that when you're faced with the prospect of a 20 million pound deal that you don't like the idea of, the only effective way to counter this is to come up with some form of financially-viable alternative.

[someone]

Well, that's basically the idea. While the University is certainly under no obligation to do anything we ask, it is important for students to make sure that they speak their minds and are heard in the University.

My opinion is that we should not sell Hamilton, based on the fact that the information I have heard--- not only as your regular student, but also in my capacity (past and currently) as an Association Officer--- things that would lead me to believe that this is a short-sighted move that is contrary to the stated policy of the University.

Inquiries should be made by interested individuals as well as the Association into alternatives to selling this landmark--- a major part of what the outside world thinks of when it hears the name, "St Andrews--- to private interests. That's what we're seeking in our campaign, which is directed at Mr. Watson and, vicariously, the University Court.

[The Cellar Bar]

the problem is what seems to be emerging as an overall plan that the University has, of which Hamilton is just a part.

There are also rumours that the University is also in negotiations with a developer to flatten Albany Park and rework their part of the area between Kinkell Caravan site and the Harbour. To turn the area into a series of multi-million pound luxury flats along the Harbour line itself. Which would mean an even greater loss in the accommodation for students, i nthe short term at least.

What seems to be happening is that the University has already done its research and taken the view that a campus spread across the town is inefficient and bad practice. Ouside of the fact that their antics to date would seem to encapsulate what most people would regard as bad practice in any case, plans like that inevitably leave the feeling that not only Hamilton but also the likes of the Athol, Chatttan and Sallies are under the same sort of review.

Overall, the plan seems to envisage moving all student accommodation out of the town itself, and particularly accommodation to the East of the town and shifting it all into one area. Probably around New Hall and the new David Russell complex. As in a self-contained, isolated complex of accommodation for 7,000 plus students all within a fairly tight circle up by the AU, all designed to air "conference centres" during the winter months and keep them "warm" for the banks, insurance companies and corporations which descend on the town in the summer months.

And if New Hall is anything to go by, Halls with all the charm and atmosphere to be found on the Moon, all ridiculously expensive and all headed towards a privatisation process of not only Accommodation "Services" but also the conveyor belt degree factory that this place is turning into. And for a suitably select group of students who can actually afford to be here.

If it keeps on at this rate, not only will sons and daughters be passing their Executive mothers and fathers in the corridor at the end of term but eventually it will be forgotten what the term "University" actually means.

But like they say, and as a recent poster seemed to expect, it is turning into the best education money can buy.

[Kibet]

i do not doubt that the american company who is buying hamilton will build very nice accomodation for the hamilton refugees. but as cellar bar stated, it will only be for a select group of students that can afford it.

equally if albany park is flattened and replacement accomodation is made, it will not be offered at the same price as albany.

if the university gets 20 million from albany as well. this 40 million will not go into the reduction of rent increases nor will it keep the rent increases stable. it will just go into the big pot that is meant for improvements.

[hmmm]

The onle people likely to want to protest are those that do or have lived there. It hasn't been a university property that long so it's not the same as if they were selling say University Hall which of course they would not do (because of both history and failing that, a lesser location).

The protest should perhaps wait until it is seen what form of accommodation will be replacing it. Numerous and affordable = good. However many and of DRA standard and price = very bad.

I suspect it will be the latter for raking in more money but by the time it happens most people here will be gone and know one left here will know the full story. And voila the uni screws over it's students once again.

I find it a little sad that the option of coming to St Andrews is being removed for both my and my partner's siblings. It's a fantastic university in my opinion, I lve the atmosphere, but the price is just getting too high :/

[Sir Tufton Bufton]

All arguments about whether or not the uni might improve itself with the proceeds, or whether a 55 yr spell as part of the uni constitutes membership of an "irreducible historic core" aside, I wish you the best of luck in your campaign.

Though I feel that the iceberg is already way too close to avoid, unfortunately.

[drunkanddisorderly]

Monster Sink, I really don't agree with you at all. I think the sale of Hamilton is a blot on the integrity and spirit of the uni as an institution and I for one along with my friend Preston here am going to do something about it. It is a disgrace the way this uni behaves and doesn't give a monkey's about anything that the students have to say or seem to have any idea of what certain things actually represent to the people who study here. The 20m would be squandered on nothing and at the end of the day would probably result in one extra IR book in the short loan library rather than anything we can feel. I am going to turn my bck on this money spinning and ignorant uni as soon as I can because the feel of community and fellowship that exists between the students is utterly betrayed by the administration.

[Guest]

[s]The Cellar Bar wrote on 04:51, 12th Jul 2004:
the problem is what seems to be emerging as an overall plan that the University has, of which Hamilton is just a part.

There are also rumours that the University is also in negotiations with a developer to flatten Albany Park and rework their part of the area between Kinkell Caravan site and the Harbour. To turn the area into a series of multi-million pound luxury flats along the Harbour line itself. Which would mean an even greater loss in the accommodation for students, i nthe short term at least.

What seems to be happening is that the University has already done its research and taken the view that a campus spread across the town is inefficient and bad practice. Ouside of the fact that their antics to date would seem to encapsulate what most people would regard as bad practice in any case, plans like that inevitably leave the feeling that not only Hamilton but also the likes of the Athol, Chatttan and Sallies are under the same sort of review.

Overall, the plan seems to envisage moving all student accommodation out of the town itself, and particularly accommodation to the East of the town and shifting it all into one area. Probably around New Hall and the new David Russell complex. As in a self-contained, isolated complex of accommodation for 7,000 plus students all within a fairly tight circle up by the AU, all designed to air "conference centres" during the winter months and keep them "warm" for the banks, insurance companies and corporations which descend on the town in the summer months.

And if New Hall is anything to go by, Halls with all the charm and atmosphere to be found on the Moon, all ridiculously expensive and all headed towards a privatisation process of not only Accommodation "Services" but also the conveyor belt degree factory that this place is turning into. And for a suitably select group of students who can actually afford to be here.

If it keeps on at this rate, not only will sons and daughters be passing their Executive mothers and fathers in the corridor at the end of term but eventually it will be forgotten what the term "University" actually means.

But like they say, and as a recent poster seemed to expect, it is turning into the best education money can buy.


By the same logic, then they will flog off the quad and everything they own in the town. Which though is basically selling the heritage of the university, i suspect in the long run it will be better for students.

Afterall we will get a lot more for our money by building out of town, and it may be characterless but the running costs will be low and hopefully this will be passed on to students in rental prices. It would be nice to have a big shiny 24/7 library too.

[echo]

Since we are micro managing the University these days. (Really who gives f*** about whether they flog Hamilton). If you do then wow, I think you need to get out more (like so much more). All I care about is being able to stay somewhere clean and central at reasonable cost.

How about some new campaigns
"Change the colour of carpets"
"Stop removing interesting graffiti from desks"
"Stop failing my essays"

I am sure the sab officer is preparing for a third run at office. Perhaps his slogan could be "I'll achive f*** all but I am great on self promotion"

[hr]Manchester, so much to answer for

[tintin]

Sadly I think we may be too late.

[tintin]

"The Cellar Bar" does speak a great deal of sense. The University is indeed being turned into a degree factory along the lines of other less historic and worthy institutions; by emphasising sanitised and nondescript accomodation in one place, with teaching in another, it is being turned into a low-end campus University.

Sadly there is very little we can do in the current funding climate. The University is forced to sell off these assets to plug gaps in the short-term, because otherwise they will plunge further into debt. And sadly, Higher Education will remain the preserve of those wealthy enough to afford it. There should be far more scholarships in place for worthy students from poor backgrounds, but there are simply no funds for this.

[Al]

"All I care about is being able to stay somewhere...central at reasonable cost."

Then surely you should be supporting the campaign. After all, any new residence will be neither central nor reasonably priced.

[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.

[Mr Comedy]

I'm looking forward to the invitable Sabb candidate "Vote for me and I'll save Hamilton. Like bugger you will. King Canute stood a better chance.