MT1003 and the unhelpfulness of the Maths department.

[Engimatic_Man]

Bloody re-read the thread moron.

I said that he hadnt been to ANY lectures. By using that kind of language you deomanstrate your total lack of imagination and intelligence, and reading what you actually said just proves it.

You are just a personification the lower standards of people being allowed into this and all universities.

[Pussycat]

Hmm, courses have no requirement to cover only one text book. In many cases that would very much limit what they could teach you and would be slightly ridiculous anyway. There is also no requirement what so ever for departments to put notes online. Those that do are providing an additional service only. I always check at the beginning of the year to make sure. Hardly any of my physics or maths notes were online in my first year so I went to all the lectures (well mostly...in the first semester at least ). Other modules didn't so I didn't feel too bad if I had to miss a lecture. If I missed any that weren't online then I borrowed someone else's at the time.

Solutions are also always put in the library for maths and some physics though again they have no requirement to do that either as far as I am aware. It's additional help.

Every module has a class rep or course co-ordinator (as has been said) and it is up to the students to go to them with any problems. Infact it is up to the students to do all of the above, make complaints where needed and get the notes they need, and read the chapters of text books that are necessary. The staff are only there to guide you, it's what university is all about.

No point in getting angry about it now. Best thing you can do is always make sure you somehow have all the notes and always always read the textbooks. And with maths do the past papers! Besides it's only a first year module, only need a 5.

[EviLTwiN]

[s]The Kinky Monkey wrote on 19:05, 22nd May 2004:
Also, I think notes should be posted on the web as
1) If you miss a whole week due to illness thats incredibly difficult to copy up, and...


If you miss a week due to illness, as opposed to laziness, then you simply go to the lecturer and explain this, and they will print out the missing notes for you...


Unless you are in the habit of missing lectures regularly there is no reason not to have all the notes by the end of the course.

You'll learn by the time you reach honours...

[Slash wannabe]

[s]Engimatic_Man wrote on 21:50, 22nd May 2004:
Bloody re-read the thread moron.

I said that he hadnt been to ANY lectures. By using that kind of language you deomanstrate your total lack of imagination and intelligence, and reading what you actually said just proves it.

You are just a personification the lower standards of people being allowed into this and all universities.


You pompous prick what a stupid comment. You know nothing about me, how the hell can you judge when you don't know where my learning strengths and weaknesses lie. However if you wish to be judgemental, you seem like a snotty nosed "intellectual" who is so far up his own ass, that your head is being slowly decomposed by your stomach acid.

[hr]
IMAGE:www.queensofthestoneage.com/images/logo_qotsa.gif

[Sleigh]

Intellectuals at a university? Who will they let in next I wonder.

[hr]Math, my dear boy, is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.

[Pin Cushion Queen]

The maths dept are great! Ok so a couple of lecturers aren't very good at lecturing, but all of them are really nice people and if you have a few questions you can't do you can always go to their office and ask them to show you, they are always happy to do that. Or you could ask them after lectures.

To echo a couple of other people, if you miss one class you ask someone to give you the notes, you don't even have to know them, just know they are in your class. If you miss a few for a decent reason you ask the lecturer for a copy of their notes. If I missed a class I always got a copy of the notes at the next class, otherwise you forget which ones you need and it's much harder to sort them out at the end of the course.

Believe me, it could be worse. Apparently the pure maths dept in Cambridge dont answer questions and dont give answers to tutorial sheets/past papers on the basis that if you are too thick to figure it out for yourself then you shouldn't be doing maths. Which is pretty evil.

In summary, yay to the maths dept!

[OffHeGoes]

[s]Sleigh wrote on 23:40, 22nd May 2004:
Intellectuals at a university? Who will they let in next I wonder.

[hr]Math, my dear boy, is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.



bloody hell, this thread is making me quite thankful for not turning up to my MT1003 lectures.

and for those complaining, theres plenty you could have even without going to lectures, but maybe next time try thinking about it BEFORE the whole places is closed for thr weekend before the exam.

if you'r ereally that worried than learn those notes posted about number theory and thats a few marks in the bag. also given that you havent lost your PPs surely you all did alright on class tests?? meaning not only do you have a slight cushion but also that you probably know enough to get 50%.


good luck anyhow everyone

[Bryn]

[s]Engimatic_Man wrote on 21:50, 22nd May 2004:
I said that he hadnt been to ANY lectures. By using that kind of language you deomanstrate your total lack of imagination and intelligence, and reading what you actually said just proves it.

No, there really are factors that you aren't considering, and mostly likely couldn't possibly understand. Just because it's easy for you to always be at lectures doesn't make that the same for everybody.

I hate this "they don't have to do anything it's an additional service" comment. It's just so arsey! Firstly, my main problem is that some lecturers offer it and others don't. There should at least be consistency there, otherwise how am I supposed to develop working habits? Also, it makes it so difficult to catch up if you get really behind. I don't like that some classes seem to think that you can't pass unless you were at a certain place at a certain time (well, apart from the exam, in which case that is true). If you have access to all the materials, then it shouldn't be difficult to study on my own time rather than their's.

[FieryFairy]

This is quite an interesting thread...

It seems that some people are not taking much responsibility for their own learning... I know this might cause some friction with people, but oh well.

At the beginning of the course, lecturers usually give textbooks or references that are useful for the course. This could be one way to learn the material. If they do not give this, they will quite happy to provide you with them if you ask. Also, lecturers usually say if the notes are available on the web. If they don't, I always assume they are not. This means that the way they are going to be teaching the course is from giving lectures only. This means it is your responsibility to either get to lectures and take notes, or get a hold of the books they mention and teach it to yourself that way.

You have to take responsibility for your own learning now - you are no longer going to be spoonfed. If you are unsure of things ask lecturers at the time, and look up things either on the web (not neccesarily from their notes. Often just typing the subject into google gives you good material) or in books. I'm afraid I cannot see how you can be complaining now (is it just 2 days before your exam). You have to be more prepared, and I suppose you will learn this as you get further into your course. I am in the maths department, and although some lecturers are easier to learn from than others, they are always willing to help me through things I don't understand, as long as I ask well enough in advance of exams.

I know what it's like to fall behind in a course, and feel helpless as if you are never going to learn enough. I have to say, this was not the fault of the lecturers though...

Having said all of this, I hope you find some sort of information on the course, and do well in your exam! I would lend you my notes, but I don't have them with me just now. As I said, sometimes you can find the information you need just by searching in google.

[pist]

[s]Slash wannabe wrote on 23:37, 22nd May 2004:
You pompous prick what a stupid comment. You know nothing about me, how the hell can you judge when you don't know where my learning strengths and weaknesses lie. However if you wish to be judgemental, you seem like a snotty nosed "intellectual" who is so far up his own ass, that your head is being slowly decomposed by your stomach acid.


There was absolutely no need for that, especially when most readers no doubt agree with the other bloke. Stop acting like such a petulant foot stamping foul mouthed child.

If you fail you fail and it's your own fault, so stop trying to find other people to blame. It is, like the person said, moronic.

[The Kinky Monkey]

Lower standards of people!!!! Thats incredibly elitist and its crap like you that make our country fall apart. Everybody deserves a chance mate and anybody who thinks they're better than someone else just because they go to uni seriously wants their head looking at.



[s]Engimatic_Man wrote on 21:50,
22nd May 2004:



Bloody re-read the thread moron.

I said that he hadnt been to ANY lectures. By using that kind of language you deomanstrate your total lack of imagination and intelligence, and reading what you actually said just proves it.

You are just a personification the lower standards of people being allowed into this and all universities.




[hr]
Thou who hast stolen my cheese, wouldst thou kindly return it or risk a severe buggering.

[The Kinky Monkey]

[s]Unregisted User pist wrote on 23:50, 22nd May 2004:
[s]Slash wannabe wrote on 23:37, 22nd May 2004:[i]
You pompous prick what a stupid comment. You know nothing about me, how the hell can you judge when you don't know where my learning strengths and weaknesses lie. However if you wish to be judgemental, you seem like a snotty nosed "intellectual" who is so far up his own ass, that your head is being slowly decomposed by your stomach acid.


There was absolutely no need for that, especially when most readers no doubt agree with the other bloke. Stop acting like such a petulant foot stamping foul mouthed child.

If you fail you fail and it's your own fault, so stop trying to find other people to blame. It is, like the person said, moronic.
[/i]

I can't believe you agree with that elitist crap about lower standards mate!!
Fair enough maybe this thread is turning into a slanging match, and we're slightly moving off the original topic, but to agree with that, is incredibly pompous as stated above.



[hr]
Thou who hast stolen my cheese, wouldst thou kindly return it or risk a severe buggering.

[flash99]

[s]FieryFairy wrote on 09:59, 23rd May 2004:
You have to take responsibility for your own learning now - you are no longer going to be spoonfed.


Here here. Part of the value of a degree is to show that you are capable of studying off your own back - this isn't school.

If you want to develop work habits then they should be to go to the lectures taking decent notes; read the recommended texts or the web to fill in anything missing; do the tutorial sheets, check solutions (if available) and go to the actual tutorials. After this you should be set to study past papers and discuss any minor points with the lecturer or your tutor. You should be able to pass this way for every Maths module required of you (apart from the project).

Not going to lectures is a bit lame as even if you have 4 modules this is only 20 hours (more likely 10) in a week - remember you're actually paying for all this. With tutorials and microlabs you're not going to break 30, leaving at least 10 hours of a full-time week for study (you are in full-time education after all). You're going to do well in a job if you can't manage this. Other subjects often have it harder (Chemistry anyone?). If you find a better way by all means use it (there have been courses I've not attended, but I've always had other resources), but don't complain if it goes pear-shaped - it's your own fault.

Solutions or notes on the web should be considered a bonus (as they are - you don't pay for these) They're not contractually obliged, and even if it is 'arsey' have you ever considered it from the lecturer's point of view? He arrives every morning to give a lecture he's probably had to give before, in something he covered years ago and is probably elementary to the point of boredom (this is true right through to honours sometimes) and you can't even be bothered turning up. Then you start bleating at the end of term because you can't do the course. (yes I know the lectures get paid, but as I say you're actually paying for this - it's like paying for a plumber, not being there to let him in and then complaining about the workmanship)

The bottom line is you're not supposed to be kids any more so you don't get treated like it. The freedom you get to live away from home, get to choose to go to lectures, get to go to the pub etc is balanced by the freedom you have to fail. It's entirely up to you.

Besides, as someone said above, you only need a 5 (about 40% i believe) in the exam and MT1003 isn't even a prerequisite for anything as it is a bonus module. Even then there's always resits...

Flash!

[flash99]

[s]The Kinky Monkey wrote on 10:46, 23rd May 2004:
Thats incredibly elitist and its crap like you that make our country fall apart.

Actually in a country where graduates struggle for any employment, while vocational workers are in such short supply that they need to be imported, if anything it's this 'everybody should go to university' thing which is making the country fall apart.

Also, there is this crazy idea nowadays that elitist = evil. I for one would rather have the most qualified, intelligent and able people (an elite) in the important positions in this country - doctors (of all sorts), Prime Minister etc

It is true though, that everyone should get a chance to prove that they 'are elite' ie if they have good enough grades they should be admitted to universities and so forth. Perhaps it's the perceived meaning of the word - elitist should refer to those who are most able etc - not to those with rich "daddy's".

However, I find it questionable that enigmatic_man belongs to any elite given the competence of his typing:

You are just a personification the lower standards of people being allowed into this and all universities.


A lower standard do you think?

Flash!

[n01]

My thoughts:

The course was very unorganized and overall we had poor lecturers, 1 out of the 3 were good. But, in saying that, I went to the majority of the lectures and copied the notes for the ones I missed. I don't know everything about whats going on, but I don't feel completely hopeless. There are tutorial solutions in the library (thank god) but the notes you have to take yourself. You have no right to complain or even a leg to stand on if you don't bother to go to lectures. There is only so much you can blame on the lecturers, the rest is upon yourself.

The way I look at it, you are only raising the value of my marks by not showing up and putting in the effort, so by all means, don't show up and complain some more.

[The Kinky Monkey]

[s]flash99 wrote on 11:13, 23rd May 2004:
[s]The Kinky Monkey wrote on 10:46, 23rd May 2004:[i]
Thats incredibly elitist and its crap like you that make our country fall apart.

Actually in a country where graduates struggle for any employment, while vocational workers are in such short supply that they need to be imported, if anything it's this 'everybody should go to university' thing which is making the country fall apart.

Also, there is this crazy idea nowadays that elitist = evil. I for one would rather have the most qualified, intelligent and able people (an elite) in the important positions in this country - doctors (of all sorts), Prime Minister etc

It is true though, that everyone should get a chance to prove that they 'are elite' ie if they have good enough grades they should be admitted to universities and so forth. Perhaps it's the perceived meaning of the word - elitist should refer to those who are most able etc - not to those with rich "daddy's".

However, I find it questionable that enigmatic_man belongs to any elite given the competence of his typing:

You are just a personification the lower standards of people being allowed into this and all universities.


A lower standard do you think?

Flash!
[/i]

Thats a fair point, but i think my idea of elitist is probably a bit different.
The way it was phrased implied that university students are more valuble than others.
I'll give you an example of what I mean- I was always considered the 'intellectual' one in the family- As and Bs at A-level (hope that doesn't sound arrogant). My brother on the other hand, is not an academic of any sorts, and he's first to admit, but he is incredibly good at manual things, and he's probably going to be some sort of maintenance guy or a joiner or something like that.
He doesn't deserve to be called less valuble than me at all- he's just not an academic, but he's a lot more skilled manually than I am.
All i was trying to say is that the way it was phrased implied (maybe albeit to me), that he wasn't as valuble as a university student, and therefore he isn't elite.
If you think elitist means most able, then most able in what means exactly?



[hr]
Thou who hast stolen my cheese, wouldst thou kindly return it or risk a severe buggering.

[Bryn]

I'd like to point out that I haven't "started complaining 2 days before the exam". I asked Dr Grundy for the lecture notes way back at the beginning of term, and he said he would put them in the library 2 weeks before the exam. However, he hasn't.

It's pretty mean of you all to be saying "You should have gone to the lectures." It's not like I don't know that, it's just that I've not managed to keep up very well this term. Telling me what I should have done isn't exactly going to help me now is it! It might help me for next term, but I already know that I need to sort my life out a bit more for next term. So I think you should all stop lecturing me.

I do agree that everybody should go to the lectures, however I think provisions should be made for those that get behind (and I mean seriously behind, not just one or two lectures). Also, even if I do get to lectures, I don't feel that I can always trust my own notes, and would always like a copy of the lecturer's notes to cross-check them with anyway.

[flash99]

[s]The Kinky Monkey wrote on 11:28, 23rd May 2004:If you think elitist means most able, then most able in what means exactly?

That's the tricky bit. I think it all comes down to context. Most would consider a university professor to belong to an elite. I would say a master builder, successful (obviously this is subjective) artist or war hero all belong to elites. The problem is that the word doesn't comfortably sit in the plural (at least in my mind).

Then again according to one dictionary:

"Elite
n sociology, an elite comprises a relatively small group within a larger one. The elite (the word comes from the French and suggests the chosen or the elect) may mark itself out on grounds of social class, access to power, education, money, prestigious genes, race, culture, etc. Elites may press "rights" to influence or even aspire to leadership.

Aristocracy forms one traditional form of an elite, oligarchy another."

My thought is that universities don't do enough (or aren't allowed) to define the kind of elite they wish to embody and nurture and this doesn't exactly help such to exist.

Flash!

[flash99]

[s]n01 wrote on 11:27, 23rd May 2004:

The way I look at it, you are only raising the value of my marks by not showing up and putting in the effort, so by all means, don't show up and complain some more.


lol, someone's got the idea:)

Flash!

[Bryn]

Urgh, how rude.