New Union

[Dardar]

Dear people of t’ Sinner,

Have you ever thought the Union was a bit rubbish? Ever wondered why the reception is half way down a corridor on the first floor? Thought that a building built in 1973 for 3000 students just isn’t good enough for over 7000 thirty years later? Ever wanted a better bar, theatre or improved venue 1… or even something we don’t currently have, like a bowling alley? Or perhaps more pool tables… or a cinema screen… or anything…

Well, the Union is going to be changing pretty soon. Not just the building, but everything which we do within it. It’s really exciting, we want it to be really good. We also want it to be what you want it to be. After all – the Students’ Association belongs to the students, and it can be anything you want it to be. It’s really serious – we’ve committed £1 million pounds, nearly all of our reserves, should we go through with this project… so this is your chance to tell us what you want.

So, basically, this is how it is going to work. Copies of the ‘strategic plan’ have been put in halls, departments, and libraries. You can also get more from the General Office in the Union, or my office. Lastly, if, like me, you don’t move very much, you can go and have a look at the plan on our website. It’s here:

http://www.yourunion.net/news/index.php?page=article&news_id=3474

Make suggestions. Have we missed anything? Is there something we should include? Do you like it? Write to pres@st-andrews.ac.uk with any ideas that you might have… or come to the open forum we’ll be having in Venue 1 about it on the 27th Feb (next Tuesday) and tell us in person. The sabbaticals hope to get around to as many halls as possible in the next couple of weeks to talk to you about it in person as well, so keep your eyes open.

We will be putting the plan to referendum on March 16th, but there is still time to change it. Indeed, it is currently changing slightly every day. We’ve been trying to make this plan for 17 years, but this time it looks like we’re actually going to make it happen – so if you want a better Union, and we’ve missed something which is really important to you, let us know.

I’ll also check back here every 24 hours to answer questions or points you have raised (if you have any).

Hope you are all well! Best wishes,

Tom

[Bizarre Atheist]

Tom

Did I ever tell you you're my heeeeeero?

[hr]

http://www.race2paris.co.uk
http://standrews.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204763785

[munchingfoo]

Solar panels use more energy in their production than they can ever generate in their lifespan. Keep this in mind in your review.

I like the idea of rainwater harvesting though.

Is the new build likely to be an extension or a demolishion and rebuild? If the later is it really likely that it could happen in a summer?

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[Frank]

Can't we just keep the one we've got and build some good accomodation? (or some similar thing to prevent Halls costs soaring wildly)

We would, however, be the envy of everyone if we had a LazerQuest style basement. We could also use it for society meetings...

[hr]

"There is only ever one truth. Things are always black or white, there's no such thing as a shade of grey. If you think that something is a shade of grey it simply means that you don't fully understand the situation. The truth is narrow and the path of the pursuit of truth is similarly narrow."

[David Bean]

Building halls and building a new Union are hardly mutually exclusive, unless you're proposing that the Students' Association should use its own funds to prop up deficiencies in the university's property strategy.

Good on you, Tom, for getting the job done. I had faith in you that you would. I'll check out the report and maybe drop you a line about it some time.

[hr]

Psalm 91:7

[Telinar]

Bowling alley sounds cool, and I agree with Frank, we need a Lazer Quest basement . But where would you build this Super-Union? Surely the current site wouldn't be big enough to accomodate it and there's nowhere else central enough for it, or are you planning on more stories to the building? Also, would a bigger Beaton's be incorporated into this and not just an addon to the bar?

[hr]

http://telinar-beln.deviantart.com or http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37105240

[jequirity]

The union needs a permanent Viking theme i reckon

[hr]

LEEERRRROYYYY!!!!

Andrew W K Day 9th of May

[box_of_delights]

B.E.S.S. needs to be expanded significantly... the current unit is far too small and can't hold the level of stock it needs.

General office to be positioned near entrance and SSS would be good all on one level.

Can something/anything be done to improve the car park in this renovation project? Access and general space is poor.

Access between the main bar and Venue One could also do with widening, it's gridlock there at times.

[hr]

http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37101440

[Al]

Quoting jequirity from 19:59, 22nd Feb 2007
The union needs a permanent Viking theme i reckon

Some might say the runes were more than enough.

[MacMan]

I think the current Union building is still very versatile and it is more the ways in which it is used that needs to be changed. Recently I saw a few rooms on the top floor that get very little use and are full of rubbish, desks, old computers etc.

It could do with a re-furb admittedly, the Monty Python Society film night had a "dampener" put on it when the TV Room ceiling kept dripping on people.

Have a look at other Unions like Dundee and Glasgow for ideas. Local pubs often have cheaper (and certainly better) drinks than the Union bar, so I think our union needs to have prices and quality that match other student unions in Scotland.

[ljrmorgan]

The union wouldn't be that bad if they had decent drinks at decent prices (how much do they make out of drinks?) and if they ever had some good events, you could spend the £1million on getting bands in etc. instead of exploiting the fact that theres nothing else to do by charging a ridiculous amount to go to a glorified school disco every week that's run by volunteers. Its absolutely bloody disgraceful - how much money does the bop make every week? What do they do with the money? FFS - they couldn't even get a decent band for fresher's week. But no, they'll just build a bloody bowling alley instead. Christ.

[munchingfoo]

The report says 2010.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[exnihilo]

Browsing through the report, not much is going to happen in the near future lots of commitments to do things likr fund societies (which happens already) or to look into things for the future. All the concrete proposals for actual changes to the building are for several years hence. How long is a referendum good for?

Meanwhile, as has been pointed out, we store piles of crap in the building and singularly fail to make use of the space we already have. The one part that interests me is in student/staff relations, because that's what's held things back for so long - an entrenched mentality that spending is bad and that if turnout drops the only cure is increased prices - basic economics suggests otherwise.

[sweet]

Commercially the union needs to be all things to all people, really - there's no point providing exclusively cheapo services and the better-off student will go elsewhere, and vice-versa. The only outfit I can think of that largely manages this is, funnily enough, Tesco. You want OJ? Well you can have Value, Fairtrade, or Finest - everybody's happy. I think that the services need to bear this in mind. For instance, I generally avoid Bess. Why should I want to spend a tenner on a few new files and a pen when I can get much the same thing for a fiver in Woolies? I strongly suggest that Bess considers producing a good basics line with pens, folders, diaries and paper at prices which seriously compete with Woolworths.

Then again I also avoid Beatons - the quality isn't high enough and frankly I always feel uncomfortable. The bar is fine at night but not for me a daytime cafe sort of place, it's dark and has a funny sort of atmosphere. Perhaps it just reminds me of school dinners? Whatever I just don't like hanging out there and correct me if I'm wrong but from how quiet it always is neither do many others and it isn't making a great deal of money for the union. I'll tell you what I really hate, it's the counter. It's big, long, school-dinnery and although I'm quite certain the staff have better things to do, I sort of feel observed.... I don't see how a cafe fronting onto market street at the bottom could be produced other than by moving Bess, and as that is a profitable gift shop I think moving it would be a mistake.... Right. Downstairs I have to go with Oli's suggestion - build a curvy internal wall where the shutters currently come down in front of Beatons (and see wall of light suggestion below for that), and think about updating soft furnishings and especially the lighting downstairs. Run it as a pub - model on the Central, as in, menu on table, pay for meal at the bar and triumphantly bear wooden spoon back to table, food turns up within 15 mins or so. Sell burgers, lasagne etc. Put some decent furniture outdoors - there's a lovely but utterly wasted pub garden.

Also for the union - the staircase is fully naff, and also dark and depressing. I suggest something along the lines of:
[img]http://opticshock.net/gallery/albums/LED-Walls/Mood_Light_wall_tile.jpg[/img]


The Old Union Diner HAS to have a sign, and slightly cooler staff uniforms i.e. fitted!, and do good food. Opening hours were also a bit of a mystery as I recall. It has an amazing position and should really be frantically busy selling lattes, smoothies, fresh filled baguettes and bagels, soups, salads and paninis at reasonable prices. This cafe really has the potential to tap the summer tourist market, but I don't believe that it's doing so at present. Finally, how about a student discount there?

The catering outlets should be capable of providing a good atmosphere, good food and drink and turning over a really healthy profit.

Final suggestion - the very top floor has lovely light and windows, and great views. Create "the chillout rooms" - relocate the loos, knock through I few walls, put down wooden flooring and a kickass soundsystem and install lots of comfy furniture - sofas, armchairs, nooks and crannys where one can sit, study, read, have a quiet conversation and generally chill with a steaming mug of hot chocolate, breast shaped like the ones from friends - oh and quiet chillout music.

Well those are my suggestions - I'm sure the last may not be practical but it would fill a gap in the market for a quiet reasonably priced place to study without florescent lights and nasty yellow carpet.

[box_of_delights]

Quoting sweet from 17:58, 23rd Feb 2007For instance, I generally avoid Bess. Why should I want to spend a tenner on a few new files and a pen when I can get much the same thing for a fiver in Woolies? I strongly suggest that Bess considers producing a good basics line with pens, folders, diaries and paper at prices which seriously compete with Woolworths.

Firstly, can you edit your message to provide a link to those images instead of displaying them in the post - you've f*cked up the dimensions of the thread with them


Why should you go to BESS? Because I *believe* a proportion of what you spend there, like Beatons and the bar, is filtered back into the Association?

As someone who has worked in BESS for a few years I can declare that the majority of products sold (almost all stationery for instance) are priced below the RRP. That doesn't mean that you can't get cheaper stuff in Woolworths, but just one look at the size of BESS will tell you that they can't hope to compete with the economies of scale available to large enterprises like Woolworths, TESCO and WHSmith.

[hr]

http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37101440

[Tweedle-Dum]

The union's use of the plot of land is awful. If the laundry were to be knocked down, a road could lead to a car park round the back, which would allow the front car park to be built upon for a larger BESS, differently located bar, a cafe, whatever, and it would mean the entrance wasn't half a mile in.

[hr]

Tetragrammaton is a four letter word.

[Dardar]

Hello again! So – I’ll answer your questions one by one.

Bizarre Atheist – Nobody has ever said I’m their hero. Ever.

Munchingfoo – The solar panels idea was put forward by the Environmental and Ethics Committee, and is something the University is strongly supportive of because they have recently been given a lot of money to come up with environmental projects. The chances are the University would cough up the money for them, and we would then have to pay less on our (rocketing) electricity bill. As such we would be able to give more money to societies (or at least that is how I see it).

The rainwater harvesting idea came from Bruce Turner, and is something he has been thinking about for some time. I like it too. It makes a lot of sense and would work well.

How will all this work be done? Well… it is impossible for us to completely demolish the entire building and start again from scratch. The University simply cannot afford it, and neither can we. As an example, the library is having the same problems now… and when work begins on that it will be as an expansion of the current site rather than a total demolition.

It is, therefore, far more likely to be an extension of the current site – probably backwards onto the garden, and possibly upwards. It is also feasible that there will be some sort of panelling attached to the front of the building to give it the appearance of a new, more attractive, area. That said, there is still plenty of scope to demolish half of the building (venue 1), and redevelop and expand that from scratch. There is also the option of not expanding the building outwards at all, but to internally redevelop the whole site to make far better use of what we have.

Regardless of which option we go for, our aim will be to complete the vast majority of the work over the summer to make it ‘workable’ when the students arrive… with the rest of the work being completed by Christmas. We do not envisage moving out of the Union for a year to create the New Union – although it might be ‘messy’ for a bit.

Frank – It is the Students’ Association to campaign on your behalf for the University to build us some ‘good accommodation’. Our plans include changes to how we will do representation, although successes this year include ensuring all hall prices will not increase over the next three years except with inflation, and a commitment from the University that future accommodation builds and will be as affordable for student as possible. We have achieved numerous other things on this front this year, thanks largely to the efforts of Laura Wilson and Ben Nicholson. Should you wish to know more, I recommend you contact them.

Lazerquest was discussed but rejected – we just don’t have the space for it. That said, it would have been good. Oh, it would have been so good. But paintball… Oh, wow.

David – It would be much appreciated if you could have a look at it, and let me know what you think.

Telinar – Beatons is a very interesting point. The chef, Charlie, is excellent – and better than nearly everyone employed in the University Catering department. He produces the cheapest food in town, but can also produce (if given appropriate resources) some fantastic food. The coffee, tea and soft drinks are the cheapest in town. So why don’t more people use it? Well, most don’t know about it, and it’s tucked away at the back of the main bar.

We envisage the New Union to have far better use of the front of the building. We would hope that the area to the left of BESS (looking from the pavement) where the recycling area is would become the new entrance to Beatons. There would be outside seating, and a door into a completely refurbished café where the Publications Office/Old Laundry exists. This would then catch far more people in off the street, and be a very useful source of income. It would also just be a far nicer environment. There is also the possibility that where Beatons currently sells food from a bottle bar would be developed to cut down the waiting times for beers and other stuff.

Jequirity – More so than a permanent Star Wars theme?

Box of Delights – Lots of good points. I should perhaps before I answer your question explain briefly what is going to happen. The plan (should be accepted in the referendum on the 16th March) sets out what the Students’ Association needs to contain. Next year it will be the job of the sabbaticals and staff to create a series of two or three ‘options appraisals’ for exactly how all of the things set out into the plan can be put into our ‘new’ building (with an extension if need be). As such – I cannot give you any definite answers for what will happen, but having spoken to the other sabbaticals, lots of student and staff, the responses listed below illustrate current thinking – and where we would have to go if the building was to be changed tomorrow:

B.E.S.S does need expanding – especially if wish to sell sports merchandise from there as well (as the plan states). The problem is that it needs the front space of the building, and so, consequently, has very little place to ‘move into’. That said, we might be able to find space for their storage of clothes somewhere else in the building, and so be able to expand into the cupboards which currently exist. It’s a problem – but we’re working on it.

General Office – It is ludicrous for any building to have a reception right in the heart of the building. It is currently planned that the New Union will have a reception area at the front of the building – but all of the other services which the office provides (photocopying, printing, binding, laminating etc) will be turned into a ‘photoshop/reprographics’ unit, which will concentrate on doing just those facilities. We might even consider moving all stationary out of BESS to make more space for cards and clothes, and into said ‘photoshop’ (although this is just a thought – I’m not saying that this will happen at all).

SSS – As it stands, we can’t see SSS being made into one compact space – although I agree that it would be useful, and just because I can’t see it doesn’t mean it is going to happen. When we make the options appraisals for the building, then it is certainly conceivable that we will clump them together, in the same way that we hope to clump our representational facilities together. I am due to discuss the plan at a meeting with Student Support on the 27th and will ask if they would prefer to be clumped together in the redesign of the estate, and, if they say yes, I will try to work that in.

Car Park – a tricky one, as it is never going to be very big, but has to hold the cars of the staff who work here. There might well be an access road to the back of the Union put in, however, which would help by allowing stage materials to be taken straight from the street to the back of Venue 1 (or possibly a new Venue 3). Not sure I can say much on this, except you’re right.

Venue 1 – Main Bar Passage – Has been recognised as a problem, and will be addressed if there is any internal redevelopment of the foyer area (which is very likely). Gridlocked is a great word to describe it – there are more crashes there than on the M25.

AI – No comment

MacMan – The problem with the Union building is that times of usage are set into a system of peaks and troughs… when we are busy, we are packed… and when we are quiet, we are empty. Mornings and early afternoons are VERY quiet, as most of you guys and gals are at lectures. In the evenings, however, we are so packed we cannot fit all of our 97 societies in. That is why you have the debates society training out of the snooker room, and thespians acting in the corridor. Lee Kane and I have been working on this for months now – the solution is simple. We allow the University to use our rooms for teaching in when they are empty in the mornings, and in exchange they let us have their rooms which lie empty in the evenings for society usage. This deal has worked very well for us – we are now allowed to use the Buchanan on Monday, Tuesday and Thursday nights at no cost to ourselves (despite porters and utilities costs adding up to about £65 a night), while they have yet to put anyone in any of our rooms! Ultimately we would like to see the debates society get hold of Lower Parliament Hall ‘for free’, Mermaids given a good home (or two), and musicians given ample room to practice. At present, we simply cannot find the space for any of these things in the evenings when they are needed, and that is why we need either a) a massive New Union (not going to happen), or b) to continue working with the University to find the space we are so short of. All of this said, there is plenty of scope for better usage of the space which we have/

As for the junk – well, one mans junk is another man’s treasure. We cannot afford to go out and buy all of the things which we would like (sofas, carpet, Hugh MacDougall), so we make do with what we have… and the students use everything which is within the building.

Refurb – undoubtedly. We are currently getting a new ceiling put on (hence the work you will see with the giant red bucket tube), and this will help with the damp, but the whole building looks really dated.

As for drinks prices and quality… I don’t think we do that badly. Let’s start with price. I phoned up every single Students’ Association in Scotland earlier to find out just how much they charge for their drinks.

Institutions Price for cheapest beer (pint) Price for shot of vodka

Aberdeen 1.80 1.50
Abertay 1.60 1.00
Dundee 0.99 0.99
Edinburgh 1.50 1.50
Glasgow 1.65 1.10
Heriot Watt 1.80 1.60 (w/ mixer)
Napier 1.50 330ml Stella 1.40
QMU 1.75 1.20
Stirling 1.90 1.00

St Andrews 1.60 1.00

It was really interesting, but I don’t think we do too badly out of it. We have held our price of lager for three years now, while our vodka is as cheap as anywhere. There is one interesting point to note, and that is why don’t we do special offers – like buy one get one free, or a happy hour? Well, quite simply, we’re a charity, and we are not allowed to be seen encouraging ‘irresponsible drinking’. One or two other Union’s do, but they are breaking the law… simple as. For the same reason, we are not allowed to lower our prices much more than we currently do – and they are the cheapest in town (if you exclude special offers). We have, however, made a commitment in our plan to keep our prices as low as possible.

As for the quality of drinks – well, like most Students’ Association’s in Scotland, we buy our drinks through a consortium called Northern Services. That means we all actually have pretty much the same stuff as everywhere else (Edinburgh excluded). We have 12 types of beer and lager, which competes with most places in town:

1) Tennants (and extra cold)
2) Stella (and in bottles)
3) Tennants Velvet
4) Tennants Versa
5) Guinness (and extra cold)
6) Staropramen (and in bottles which are much better, in my opinion)

There are also bottles of :

7) Tiger
8) Corona
9) Newcastle Brown
10) Ossian
11) Lia Fail
12) Brahma

I had a chat with Sandy (the bar manager) about it, and he said in the old days they had as many as 20 types of beer and ale and things on tap… but students just didn’t buy it. At the end of the day I guess market economics told. That said, if you can think of a beer or ale or anything you think we should be selling, please get in contact with us, and I will pass the message on. You’d be surprised at how helpful they are…

Ljrmorgan – I used to think just like you! Finances are available from the office, but I’ve hunted them down. Last year our bars made £408431 gross surplus, and £243714 operating surplus. The bop is £3.50, and we budget for selling 500 bands – so we hope to make a minimum of £1,750 each week on that. Sometimes we don’t, but usually we do.

So – where does that money go? Well, the first thing to say is that we are a charity. We do not make money. Every penny you spend in our bar goes back into student societies, activities or representation – or pays for something else like general wages or utilities (which are nearly £100,000 a year). We don’t make anything. In fact, this year we have budgeted to make a loss of £1350. In fact it will probably by a little more than that. But because we have such a wide and varied set of operations, very little of the money made at the bop or on the bars goes on improving those services. Our strategic plan is being created to help change that – and to ensure that our commercial services are ‘updated’ so that they are able to keep up with the demands placed on them from the student body.

Ljrmorgan and dunqn – Ahh, the live music debate. Well, I think it would be fair to say that different students want different things. Some want live music, others want cheese. Some want hip hop, others want RnB. I want the theme tune to Last of the Mohicans (so I stand alone!) One thing we can agree on is that we have only got one very average venue, which means we can only do one thing in it a night. The problem is, everybody wants it. Some for theatre, others for comedy, others for meetings, others for RnB, others for Hip Hop, others for live music… so we do our best to cater for all of them, but sometimes we just can’t because we’re not big enough. Why? Because the Union was built in 1973 for a student population of 3000, and now there are 7000. The solution is another venue – Venue 3 – which will allow us to do twice the number of things we are currently doing, and double the amount of people we cater for. Keep the Bop, but have live music as well.

As for attracting big name bands – well, they cost money. And we simply don’t have it, because we invest all of our money in societies and our other activities. The University doesn’t bankroll us, as happens at other institutions, and, in fact, we are given a smaller grant from our University than any other Students’ Association in Scotland. Take a moderately big star. Say, KT Tunstall. Even though she is from St Andrews she is asking for £20,000 for an hour show. Would you pay £30 to see that in the bop? Would 666 other people? It won’t happen – and we’re not out to just throw money away. We have to at least break even from our commercial services.

That said, I would be happy to try to include in the plan some sort of point along the lines of – ‘to try to attract a big name artist to St Andrews each year in liaison with the University’. Let me know what you think.

Dunqn – When will it be done by… the most key question of all. Well, we need the University to pay for the majority of it. And they will. The problem is they have their priorities (rightly, in my opinion) on other things. A new library, redevelopment of certain schools and halls and a new Medical Sciences building are all ahead of us in the queue for cash. As it stands, it will probably be the summer of 2010 or 2011 – but I hope that doesn’t put you off taking an interest. The University has been begging for a plan like this for years – and it is the only way the Union will ever change. We are closer to actually achieving it than at any time in our history, despite 17 years of wanting it.

…

Right, well, I’ve now written nearly 3,000 words on this which probably makes me, if nothing else, the saddest President ever. Friday night, 7.30. I’m off for a pint. Keep the comments/questions/abuse coming…

[papercutheart]

One thing, and one thing only would be needed to make the Union my home - sell Kopparberg.

Edit: And purple J2O's for when I'm not drinking.

[trouble]

lazer quest!!! oh and kopparberg...and ..and..more venues? or bigger ones? or both?

[hr]

"Let's play master and servant."

http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100566

[Al]

Quoting dardar from 19:37, 23rd Feb 2007

Al – No comment

I was referring to the runes that used to spell out "Stat Scotia Stat Aula" in various places around the Main Bar.