neds bothering our barbara

[Humphrey]

I never found anything to do in St Andrews besides get drunk, insult people and vandalise property, can't really expect Neds to either.

[hr]http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[The Kinky Monkey]

[s]quarterstaff wrote on 17:33, 31st Jan 2005:




i see what your saying but you cant generalise like that... st andrews is no easterhouse, but there are some quite rough areas in the "badlands", and in leuchars too.

those who are living in deprivation here may not have it as bad as others, but it must be quite galling to live so close to the golfers and students who are seen to have SO much disposable income.



Evening quaterstaff. With all due respect i find that a lot of neds seem to have a disposable sort of income- i mean the ones who drive around in their cars in the middle of the day blasting out crappy trance or whatever.
They seem to be able to run cars without actually having a job- i know its a bit of a minority but it still seems fairly apparent.

Also there are a lot of students who JUST manage to break even with their money over the course of a year.

There are a lot of students also with a disposable income and do seem to be constantly loaded as well, but lets not get into a debate on yahs etc.

Thats the crazy thing about St Andrews though, so many diversities in such a small place.

[md25]

[s]The Cellar Bar wrote on 04:23, 31st Jan 2005:
It doesn't take too much of a genius to figure out the sort of income that generates over the course of maybe 15 weeks of the summer.

A bit shy of half a million a year. Don't forget the doubtlessly astronomical running costs, we're running the old course at a loss to save a vital piece of history for the world good, etc., etc.!

[The Cellar Bar]

first point would be a correction - it ain't every 16 minutes, it's actually every 6 minutes. Off the Old Course alone. And the Courses are Municipal which means the town actually owns the courses. I can see the point about running costs but one problem is the perceived unaccountablity which is where much of the resentment resides. Not to mention the fact that little of that money has actually been "invested" in the young aspiring golfers from the town.

One of the essences of Youth Work that used to exist was the fact of not actually using them to instil discipline and obedience. We worked them as basically "padded" rooms where young people were in charge and were able to direct things themselves. Rather than being turned into model citizens that your average resident of the West end of town would be proud of. There's an element of risk in that but work away through the layers and you'll find that most of it is bravado and noise. And the results can be constructive and enormously satisfying. But the longer we keep working along the lines of ghettoising and eugenics there never will be a solution.

In terms of businesses in the town, it might be of interest to know that our business rates are currently £12,000 a year. Essentially the first £40 we take pays the rates for that day. Oddbins rates are £35,000 a year. And their rent will be another £35,000. Tesco's approaching £300,000 a year. Those rates in themselves are notionally designated towards paying for civic amenities. Which some of us would consider what a Youth Centre for instance is. Businesses in this town already make a sizeable contribution to what happens in this town yet the Byre Theatre and the Christmas Lights, for instance, are two more examples of further contributions that are needed in order to do more than simply light the streets and keep the pavements relatively flat.

[Guest]

[s]Bonnie wrote on 13:03, 30th Jan 2005:
I see a rise in this type of behaviour every time there's fewer students in town.




I see a rise in this type of behaviour every time there's more students in town.

[commonname]

The Cellar the best pub in St Andrews? Have you seen the state of the toilets, mould growing on the pipes etc. - what the place needs is refurbishing badly, and some proper air-conditioning installed so that you don't die from the clouds of smoke.

Isn't it Cellar Bar who is always defending these bloody neds anyway - nice to see you calling shit what it is rather than defending the little shitbags for a change.

[Guest]

You have a point, Malcolm. There is nothing here for kids to do, especially in the evenings. There is also nowhere for them to hang about.

Thing is, in St Andrews, I cant think of anywhere you can socialise except the pub.

Im about to go off-topic now...

When I started here, I was 17, and after getting banned from the union for drinking, I was completely put off going out, and sat moping about in halls with a fellow underager while the rest of our friends were having a ball. The law is the law, but there is only so much time one can spend in the cinema (you cant socialise there). There was sweet FA for us to do in general, because lots of societies met in pubs, but we couldnt be bothered with the humiliation of being unable to produce ID.


Maybe not so much for students, but for the kids there should definitely be some sort of youth centre, or even a late night cafe. They have become more of a problem recently, and they are getting cockier because some students are visibly intimidated by them, when they really shouldnt be. I find that giving them a wee smile works wonders; especially if they are in the process of doing something BAD. Then they start to look a wee bit guilty.

Mwoahahha.

[bex]

[s]daduffster wrote on 00:55, 31st Jan 2005:
Sorry, have I missed something? What exactly counts for hooliganism in St. Andrews? It's not like we're dealing with a bunch of England fans tearing up the town like in Euro 2000. We're dealing with the neds who are only neds because there is nothing else to do! If you won't to solve the problem then do something constructive and promote ideas, such as a Youth Group/Club or something, to get these "neds" off the streets.

Taking the stance of wanting them to go back where they came from, believing that neds cannot learn anything and wanting to kill them is half the problem. Just because we're students does not make us any better.

Furthermore, if loitering on the streets, shouting abuse in bars and general anti-social behaviour counts as hooliganism, then students are without doubt the worst offenders.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not here to defend ned culture as I totally agree that it is intimidating to the general public. But what gives us the right to look down on those who may not have experienced the same education and opportunities?


saying that these people havent had the same opportunities or education as us students is wrong. There has never been more opportunities to succeed as there are now. The government does there upmost to encourage kids to work hard and do well. I studied in the most down and out crappiest school in Britain. so bad that the 'good' kids were ignored by teachers and very rarely rewarded for their efforts. Whereas the bad ones were treated to McDonalds and had awards coming out there backsides.My point is that if i can succeed then there's no excuse for others.

[bubbles]

Today was the funniest thing ever! I was eating lunch with my mum outside this really nice place, when these clearly drunk scallies started throwing chairs at each other. When they left my mum called them 'scum', whereby one of them answered 'well at least im not sat outside a pub eating chips'. Then he fell down some steps. It was classic!the poor guy didnt realise how bloody stupid he looked!

[Guest]

What St Andrews really needs to do is escape the clutches of Fife council and go back to being run by just a town council, we have nothing in common with most of the rest of fife, and the quality of councilors on fife council is very depressing.

PS Cellar Bar, how are the rates worked out in St A's, a percentage of turnover?

[Cain]

[s]Unregisted User bubbles wrote on 21:35, 1st Feb 2005:
When they left my mum called them 'scum', whereby one of them answered 'well at least im not sat outside a pub eating chips'.

that was a positively Wildean response

[hr]
I hold an element of surprise

[Humphrey]

[s]Unregisted User commonname wrote on 23:15, 30th Jan 2005:
The Cellar the best pub in St Andrews? Have you seen the state of the toilets, mould growing on the pipes etc. - what the place needs is refurbishing badly, and some proper air-conditioning installed so that you don't die from the clouds of smoke.

Isn't it Cellar Bar who is always defending these bloody neds anyway - nice to see you calling shit what it is rather than defending the little shitbags for a change.


So what if the toilets look like shit, the selection of beers on offer is far more important. Give me a smokey pub any day of the week, I may die a slow death of passive smoking but ill die happy, with an Erdinger in my hand.

I dont think he was defending the anti-social behavior of NEDs, I think he was pointing out that its more productive to look at the roots of the problem than to make it purely an 'us and them' situation. The more it gets like that, the more of a problem its going to be.


[hr]
http://www.livejournal.com/users/humphrey_clarke/

[The Cellar Bar]

[s]Unregisted User wrote on 10:58, 2nd Feb 2005:
Cellar Bar, how are the rates worked out in St A's, a percentage of turnover?

from what I can make out the rates are based to begin with on turnover and a retal value is derived from that. Hence the comment about Oddbins and their rates and rents. Last time I heard they were actually paying £35,000 a year for the property.

It then becomes slightly more complicated because the Assessors calculate overall what they want from St. Andrews. And then break it down street by street. And then divide that sum by the number of businesses in the street. In that way there is "Rates" and "Rateable value". Where they essentially work out a "poundage" figure based on your rent. So you can have a Rent of £35,000 say and a rateable value of £1.25. Which means you are paying £1.25 in Rates for every pound you pay in rent.

And then its further complicated by the fact of Charity shops. I've absolutely no problem with Charity Shops per se, but they pay only an element of the rates for any property, as I understand it, about 10% at the moment. The Heart Shop for instance across the road from us has a rateable value of £26,000 a year. And the Assessors "spread" the cost of that rating across the other businesses in the street. There are maybe 18 shops in our street and we are "charged" with making up the shortfall. Then of course there's Oxfam and Barnardos an' all to think about.

[Zombie Sheep]

[s]the-enemy wrote on 17:07, 31st Jan 2005:
and i'm sorry to say, that any formation of a youth centre or whatever is only gonna work for a short period of time. in my hometown they set up a venue called "The Pitstop" to keep teenagers off the streets. it was really popular for a couple of months, but after that attendances fell and fell. it was only ever busy on particularly wet or cold nights.

I remember they set up a place called the pitstop near where I used to live - don't suppose it was the same one? Maybe only an hour from here?



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