The Rectorial

[Harry Giles]

I feel good.

Apart from the fact that there was no free booze at the reception. Feckin' travesty, that one was.

[Dave the Explosive Newt]

Quoting Harry Giles from 09:58, 11th Mar 2006
Apart from the fact that there was no free booze at the reception. Feckin' travesty, that one was.

Although the chocolate cake was excellent.

[hr]

The 'gorgeous' Will Watson.

[Harry Giles]

Quoting Dave the Explosive Newt from 11:56, 11th Mar 2006

Quoting Harry Giles from 09:58, 11th Mar 2006
Apart from the fact that there was no free booze at the reception. Feckin' travesty, that one was.

Although the chocolate cake was excellent.

[hr]

The 'gorgeous' Will Watson.

Carrot cake, wasn't it?

Or did I miss chocolate cake?

Damn.

[Dave the Explosive Newt]

There were both. And some excellent shortbread too (so good I saw Dr Sinclair sneaking some out in a napkin).

[hr]

The 'gorgeous' Will Watson.

[Dave the Explosive Newt]

Quoting Kristin from 09:19, 11th Mar 2006
So, photos anyone? Drag, procession, installation ceremony? Please...

I don't think anything official has popped up yet but if you look up Russel Hall on facebook, he's got a couple of albums of rather good pictures.

[hr]

The 'gorgeous' Will Watson.

[Guest]

He better not get an Honorary Doctorate or I will be very annoyed. They never gave it to the most deserving Rector (who was elected for two terms), namely the great Donald Findlay QC.

[Al]

Quoting from 22:23, 10th Mar 2006
He better not get an Honorary Doctorate or I will be very annoyed. They never gave it to the most deserving Rector (who was elected for two terms), namely the great Donald Findlay QC.

Your thinking seems a bit muddled there.

[Jason Dunn]

Quoting Dave the Explosive Newt from 12:05, 11th Mar 2006

Quoting Kristin from 09:19, 11th Mar 2006
So, photos anyone? Drag, procession, installation ceremony? Please...

I don't think anything official has popped up yet but if you look up Russel Hall on facebook, he's got a couple of albums of rather good pictures.

Procession photo. No. 6 of 60 appears to be me in what looks like some sort of fire induced reverie. Scary stuff.

[BenEsq]

Quoting from 22:23, 10th Mar 2006
He better not get an Honorary Doctorate or I will be very annoyed. They never gave it to the most deserving Rector (who was elected for two terms), namely the great Donald Findlay QC.

Great, certainly. The University decided not to give him an honorary doctorate because he got in trouble for singing sectarian songs in Glasgow, apparently.

[hr]

Lions and tigers and bears...Oh my!

[exnihilo]

There was a long standing enmity between the then Principal and Mr Findlay - the sectarian song incident was an excuse to overlook 6 years of dedicated service (service which he has since continued for more than six years since leaving office). The two issues were not and should not have been related but Senate, General Council and everyone except thousands of very vocal, but sadly impotent, students failed to stand up to the Principal - despite practically all of them disagreeing off the record. It is one of the least edifying episodes in the University's recent history.

[Sid]

Haahahahaa, well done Ben!

Yeah they don't hand out doctorates to biggots, could be a little controversial.

Quoting benesq from 00:11, 13th Mar 2006

Quoting from 22:23, 10th Mar 2006
He better not get an Honorary Doctorate or I will be very annoyed. They never gave it to the most deserving Rector (who was elected for two terms), namely the great Donald Findlay QC.

Great, certainly. The University decided not to give him an honorary doctorate because he got in trouble for singing sectarian songs in Glasgow, apparently.

[hr]

Lions and tigers and bears...Oh my!

[Sid]

The man is a biggot and obviously a complete fool. It's like saying someone is great because they give to charity all year despite the fact that they don't like black people. Well no, he could have saved 500 kids from a burning orphanage but at the end of the day he is still a biggot and he deserves sweet f a from this university. In fact I think it's ridiculous that he still gets invited back here, but that just shows the intelligence of some of the people here.

Quoting exnihilo from 00:45, 13th Mar 2006
There was a long standing enmity between the then Principal and Mr Findlay - the sectarian song incident was an excuse to overlook 6 years of dedicated service (service which he has since continued for more than six years since leaving office). The two issues were not and should not have been related but Senate, General Council and everyone except thousands of very vocal, but sadly impotent, students failed to stand up to the Principal - despite practically all of them disagreeing off the record. It is one of the least edifying episodes in the University's recent history.

[Al]

He is not a bigot. He made a drunken, foolish mistake. How many people here would like to their character to be judged on the grounds of something they did when drunk? Whatever one thinks of him personally, he was a damn good Rector and that fact should have been recognised.

[exnihilo]

Also, as I pointed out in my post, the Students' Association was 100% behind him at the time, and the student body overwhelmingly supported him and opposed the University's decision. Were they all bigots too? Or, are you Sid, like most people who pronounce on Donald Findlay, utterly ignorant of what actually happened then and equally so of the man himself now?

[Sid]

Wait a minute. He knew those songs, is wasn't a karaoke machine down at the Rangers Boys club! Also, he was the vice-chairman of Rangers. And if you know anything about Glasgow Rangers you'll know it's rife with biggots and sectarianism. You mean to tell me that his sectarianism came on all of a sudden when he was drunk? That he was only sectarian for the night, a one off? Get real! I'll bet his ony regret is that he got caught.

[exnihilo]

I'm not continuing this, save to say you are wrong. I've known Donald for 12 years, I was at St Andrews when all this happened and I happily campaigned for him. I was one of the thousands who protested when the University spurned him. Oh, and for the record, I know about Rangers, I'm from Glasgow and I live almost within sight of Ibrox. His vice-chairmanship of the Club is not pertinent.

I do not excuse his actions at that drunken party, I do however maintain that they had no bearing on his actions as Rector of St Andrews - a role in which he was superb and the strongest advocate we've had in decades. He did not help only protestant students, he did not attempt to put down or demean anyone else, he handled himself with dignity, ability and fairness.

There's a world of difference between signing a song and being a bigot. I know the words to the sash as well - am I a bad person? You probably think so. But then, I know the words to the Horst Wessel Lied also and have sung them - so presumably I'm a Nazi? You're just wrong, and as I said ignorant of the facts of the matter.

I mean, honestly, why do you think that practically everyone who was a student at the time thinks it's irrelevant to his rectorship but that you know better?

[Sid]

I'm not saying that he was a bad rector, but I'm saying well done to the university for getting rid of the biggot. And I think your wrong, I think him being vice-chairman of rangers is a factor. It's like what came first the chiken or the egg. Did Rangers lead to DF becoming biggoted or was he like in the first place hence becoming part of Rangers FC? And there isn't a world of difference, betweeen singing a song and being a biggot. The song he was singing is biggoted and it encites sectarianism. The Sash taken out of context isn't biggoted, or at least isn't as biggoted as some of the songs these people sing. However, in context it is, and I don't need to spell it out. It's not the kind of song you'd hum in the street because you know fine well it's unacceptable. It's an orange song and by singing it you're being biggoted.

And also I'd like to point out that my last boyfriend was a Rangers supporter, and he hated that side of the club. I also have a few friends who are blind to that side of Rangers. I don't have a pure hatred for Rangers FC, but I do however, despise people such as DF, bringing sectarianism into Scottish football, singing songs that encite hatred and singing songs about things they know nothing about, just following the herd of sheep. And that goes for Celtic as well.

Quoting exnihilo from 11:12, 13th Mar 2006
I'm not continuing this, save to say you are wrong. I've known Donald for 12 years, I was at St Andrews when all this happened and I happily campaigned for him. I was one of the thousands who protested when the University spurned him. Oh, and for the record, I know about Rangers, I'm from Glasgow and I live almost within sight of Ibrox. His vice-chairmanship of the Club is not pertinent.

I do not excuse his actions at that drunken party, I do however maintain that they had no bearing on his actions as Rector of St Andrews - a role in which he was superb and the strongest advocate we've had in decades. He did not help only protestant students, he did not attempt to put down or demean anyone else, he handled himself with dignity, ability and fairness.

There's a world of difference between signing a song and being a bigot. I know the words to the sash as well - am I a bad person? You probably think so. But then, I know the words to the Horst Wessel Lied also and have sung them - so presumably I'm a Nazi? You're just wrong, and as I said ignorant of the facts of the matter.

I mean, honestly, why do you think that practically everyone who was a student at the time thinks it's irrelevant to his rectorship but that you know better?

[exnihilo]

How can you so completely miss the point?

1) by your own admission the sash should not be sung or hummed where it would not be appropriate. So, there surely wasn't anything wrong with him singing it where it was appropriate - at least by your 'logic'.

2) the University did not "get rid" of him in any sense whatever. Again - ignorance of the facts.

3) you think Donald brought sectarianism into Scottish football? What? He was at a private party, people were drunk and being stupid, the Daily Record smuggled a camera in. He's not the first person to do something while drunk that he later regretted.

4) you ignore all the points I make and stick to the one argument you have which is just utter tosh.

[Guest]

Quoting exnihilo from 00:45, 13th Mar 2006
There was a long standing enmity between the then Principal and Mr Findlay - the sectarian song incident was an excuse to overlook 6 years of dedicated service (service which he has since continued for more than six years since leaving office). The two issues were not and should not have been related but Senate, General Council and everyone except thousands of very vocal, but sadly impotent, students failed to stand up to the Principal - despite practically all of them disagreeing off the record. It is one of the least edifying episodes in the University's recent history.

Although the cause of those students was, if I remember rightly, not greatly assisted by the Saint, which backed the Principal's stance to the hilt.

[Sid]

No, the Sash should not be hummed anywhere, private or not, it's an anti-catholic song as well as the billie boys which he was reported to have also sung. Now do you the lyrics of that one? I'll quote it for you, "Up tae yer knees in Finian blood - surrender or ye'll die.
We are the Brigtoon Billie Boys." That's hardly appropriate for someone who is supposed to be an upstanding citizen. He was also reported to have been chanting a specific Rangers song which contains offensive references to the Pope. The role of the rector is to represent all students, and as a catholic I would be offended if someone who got pissed and sang songs like that was there to represent me.

What you're saying is that it's ok to be a biggot as long as no-one knows about it?? Well I don't agree and I'm sure most other people wouldn't. When the Daily Record smuggled that camera in what they revealed wasn't him just singing sectarian songs, they revealed his true character. Also, from what I read of it, he was leading everyone in the songs. And like I said before he didn't regret what he'd done, he regretted the fact that he got caught. I'm sure that wasn't the only time Mr Findlay got drunk and went into full chorus.

Quoting exnihilo from 12:23, 13th Mar 2006
How can you so completely miss the point?

1) by your own admission the sash should not be sung or hummed where it would not be appropriate. So, there surely wasn't anything wrong with him singing it where it was appropriate - at least by your 'logic'.

2) the University did not "get rid" of him in any sense whatever. Again - ignorance of the facts.

3) you think Donald brought sectarianism into Scottish football? What? He was at a private party, people were drunk and being stupid, the Daily Record smuggled a camera in. He's not the first person to do something while drunk that he later regretted.

4) you ignore all the points I make and stick to the one argument you have which is just utter tosh.