The Rectorial

[exnihilo]

Oh, I give up. You who neither know him nor the full story have condemned him. Whatever. Those who do know him and the facts did not.

I think that says it all.

[Sid]

No I don't know him but what makes you think that you know him so well. As for the facts I'll tell you a fact, Donald Findlay QC was caught on camera at a Rangers celebration singing sectarian songs. What else is there to know? Was he drugged, was it someone else in a Donald Findlay suit, no, it wasn't, it was him blatant and obvious. Sometimes what people say and what people do are two different things. If he was any decent sort of person he would never have been in that situation.

Quoting exnihilo from 17:57, 13th Mar 2006
Oh, I give up. You who neither know him nor the full story have condemned him. Whatever. Those who do know him and the facts did not.

I think that says it all.

[exnihilo]

You've never done anything you regretted while drunk? What a saint.

And which part of "I've known Donald for 12 years" is giving you trouble?

[Rufus]

Pistols at dawn, you two?

[hr]

[Sid]

What, so you call him up for a good old chin-wag, dine together, catch the Gers game, visit each other? I'm assuming you're one of these people who only met him through the university, you may be an acquaintance that doesn't mean to say you know him, no-one gets to know a public figure that well. I think you just like to think you know him.

And yes I have done things I've regretted whilst drunk. There's one thing slipping up, but singing songs which entice religious sectarian hatred is another thing, and I've never done that whilst drunk because I'm not that sort of person. Alcohol allows you to loose all inhibitions, let your guard down so to speak, now what does that say about your best chum?

Quoting exnihilo from 18:38, 13th Mar 2006
You've never done anything you regretted while drunk? What a saint.

And which part of "I've known Donald for 12 years" is giving you trouble?

[exnihilo]

I did not claim to be his best chum, but I know him well, I meet him often, and therefore I know him better than you would allow me - once again you're pronouncing on things of which you know nothing. You really are an idiot.

[Steveo]

Alcohol can impair good judgement.

Stop trying to twist everything to fit your own agenda.

[hr]

Set your goals way too high so I can laugh when you fail.

[Sid]

Poor judgement? He knew the songs, he wasn't reading from a songsheet, so that's not poor judgement. How did he know the songs already? I'm not twisting anything, I'm stating fact.

Quoting Steveo from 20:02, 13th Mar 2006
Alcohol can impair good judgement.

Stop trying to twist everything to fit your own agenda.

[hr]

Set your goals way too high so I can laugh when you fail.

[Fawksie]

Quoting Sid from 20:08, 13th Mar 2006
Poor judgement? He knew the songs, he wasn't reading from a songsheet, so that's not poor judgement. How did he know the songs already? I'm not twisting anything, I'm stating fact.

I'm a Northern Irish Catholic, and I know the words to the Sash. That reflects in no way on my character, as far as I'm concerned. Furthermore, unless I'm mistaken, the only thing that makes the Sash bigoted or sectarian is the fact that it's an Orange Order song. There's nothing particularly offensive in the lyrics, no more so than Amhrán na bhFiann, say.

[exnihilo]

And as I said - I know the words to the Horst Wessel Lied, but I'm not a Nazi.

[Sid]

I'm an idiot? I think defending oneself is hardly reason to be called an idiot. You know the guy therefore you are biased, I don't, like I said all I'm telling you is how I see it. I can't change what he did, and I think to get in that situation in the first place you have to be bigoted.

He knew the songs - clearly this wasn't a one off.

How much clearer can I make that?

You're calling me an idiot because you have no ground to stand on.

Perhaps DF has changed his ways, I don't know and I don't care, why should I? That's not what the argument started off as.

Quoting from exnihilo 20:02, 13th Mar 2006
I did not claim to be his best chum, but I know him well, I meet him often, and therefore I know him better than you would allow me - once again you're pronouncing on things of which you know nothing. You really are an idiot.

[Sid]

Yeah, but you don't go around singing them with a big smile on your face in the name of celebration. And you're calling me an idiot.

Quoting exnihilo from 20:16, 13th Mar 2006
And as I said - I know the words to the Horst Wessel Lied, but I'm not a Nazi.

[exnihilo]

I have plenty of ground to stand on. You pronounced on my relationship to the man - when you knew nothing about it. You clearly are inclined to the view "I know what I know and I won't hear different".

And if you bothered to read my posts I already said that I have joined in with a rendition of the Horst Wessel Lied while drunk. I'm still not a Nazi.

I know the words to a great many songs that a number of brislty people might call offensive. But they need to think about context and stop their whining - frankly.

[Sid]

It is anti-catholic, but that's a matter of personal judgement, however, that was not the only song he was singing his heart out to, the other was the billie boys, also very anti-catholic, and then they were blasting out the rangers song the one with all the offensive remarks about the Pope.

Quoting Fawksie from 20:16, 13th Mar 2006

Quoting Sid from 20:08, 13th Mar 2006
Poor judgement? He knew the songs, he wasn't reading from a songsheet, so that's not poor judgement. How did he know the songs already? I'm not twisting anything, I'm stating fact.

I'm a Northern Irish Catholic, and I know the words to the Sash. That reflects in no way on my character, as far as I'm concerned. Furthermore, unless I'm mistaken, the only thing that makes the Sash bigoted or sectarian is the fact that it's an Orange Order song. There's nothing particularly offensive in the lyrics, no more so than Amhrán na bhFiann, say.

[Fawksie]

Quoting Sid from 20:18, 13th Mar 2006
He knew the songs - clearly this wasn't a one off.

I'm sorry, I don't think it's clear at all. Very similar case, my cousin, whilst very drunk and in the company of several friends in a bar in a notably Catholic and Nationalist town, proceeded to sing The Sash from top to bottom. We were amazed that he even knew it, but for whatever reason, he did, and he sang it whilst drunk, for the first and last time. Who's to say Donald didn't do the same?

[Grandpa]

Quoting exnihilo from 20:20, 13th Mar 2006
I have plenty of ground to stand on. You pronounced on my relationship to the man - when you knew nothing about it. You clearly are inclined to the view "I know what I know and I won't hear different".

And if you bothered to read my posts I already said that I have joined in with a rendition of the Horst Wessel Lied while drunk. I'm still not a Nazi.

I know the words to a great many songs that a number of brislty people might call offensive. But they need to think about context and stop their whining - frankly.

f*ck me.

This is a classic tactic used by those that will not just say they are wrong (when clearly are).

The tactic works like this...first pronounce that you are infact right. next use some skewed logic to back yourself up. Lastly, carefully criticise to the effect that you make the other out to be critically flawed, when in fact they are in the right. to make it sound like you actually have a foot to stand on make the last step a big denial that the other person even knows anything about what it is you are criticising them about.

Well done, exnihilo, another corrupt victory to you.

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

[Grandpa]

And if that doesn't work, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise, deny and criticise,

until the cows come home.

job done...just you watch and see!

[hr]

[s]Cogitationis poenam nemo meretur, facias ipse quod faciamus suades - pax vobiscum.[/s]

[Sid]

Why would you sing Nazi songs when you're drunk? No wonder you and Findlay get on great, you're both as thick and ignorant as each other.

And once again, all I know is the facts. You see, you keep saying that basically I don't know anything about the situation or the man, but that is your only defense line, why don't you defend him properly and show me an example of how he isn't bigoted or how he isn't anti-catholic? I'll tell you why, because you can't, you know fine well he was in the wrong and you know fine well that he himself is anti-catholic.

Quoting exnihilo from 20:20, 13th Mar 2006
I have plenty of ground to stand on. You pronounced on my relationship to the man - when you knew nothing about it. You clearly are inclined to the view "I know what I know and I won't hear different".

And if you bothered to read my posts I already said that I have joined in with a rendition of the Horst Wessel Lied while drunk. I'm still not a Nazi.

I know the words to a great many songs that a number of brislty people might call offensive. But they need to think about context and stop their whining - frankly.

[DrAlex]

I'm sorry, grandpa, but it seems to me like both sides are equally guilty of what you charge.

As for "knowing the facts", is "what you read in the paper" really equivalent to "knowing the facts"? I am unconvinced. But, then again, this happened years before my time, so I couldn't care less.

[hr]

"Listen to DrAlex."-Polli
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37100343

[exnihilo]

Grandpa: What the blazes are you talking about? Did you read the argument so far or is this another of your bizarre postings which bear no relation to reality?

Sid: I'm thick and ignorant? My you are a wealth of the old character assassination, aren't you?

Read back for those examples - they were there, when I said he represented all students equally and to the best of his considerable ability. What part don't you get?

As for the song, I use it as an example, it's not a Nazi song, merely one adopted by the Nazis. This demonstrates the point I made about context.

Really, you will find this argument more comprehensible if you read what I've said before you "reply" to it.