Fife Park 09/10?

[wild_quinine]

Nobody seems to know what's going on at Fife Park next year? Is it definitely going to be open? All of it, or just some of it? Are people going to have to move part way through the year, so that it can be knocked down?

Can't get any answers from anywhere else. It's some big secret.

[Timata]

Its all going to be open, as far as I know...from the email the Accommodation people sent out a while back. They may start building as early as September, but they still need funding I think (and now isn't a very good time to try and get money from anywhere). Even then, they have to have enough replacement bedrooms built before they can move anyone out.

[Haunted]

Are they still building more shitty DRA clones or were those plans exposed for the scandalous crap that they are?

[Josherick3]

The plans were indeed exposed as scandelous crap...but that hasn't stopped them from pushing ahead with them!

[wild_quinine]

So they're going to open Fife Park as normal, then start building next to it/in it, then punt students across from the some of the old to the partially finished new, then knock most of the old Fife Park down, before finishing building the new one in time for the year after?

That's a bit... optimistic?

Or... are they just going to build around Fife Park in 09/10 and then not let it out again in 10/11?

Anyone know when they'll knock down the first buildings? I don't go out that way much any more, but I want a chance to say my goodbyes.

[RandomMusings]

are they just going to build around Fife Park in 09/10 and then not let it out again in 10/11

I now have visions of something being built over Fife Park to keep all the residents in, a la The Simpsons Movie, or Chennoble if you want a more real life example etc....

[Timata]

So they're going to open Fife Park as normal, then start building next to it/in it, then punt students across from the some of the old to the partially finished new, then knock most of the old Fife Park down, before finishing building the new one in time for the year after?

Pretty much - they're going to build in the field behind Fife Park and DRA, with the FP carpark as access. Then they'll move everyone over to this new block, knock down the whole of FP and build on it. When they get funding...

[Haunted]

This is criminal.
We need a group of dedicated students who will squat in FP and refuse to be moved until the university commits to replacing it with AFFORDABLE student accomodation and not some wanky underfloor-heated hotel.
This seem like a legitimate mission.....for the OCCUPATORZ.

[wild_quinine]

This is criminal.
We need a group of dedicated students who will squat in FP and refuse to be moved until the university commits to replacing it with AFFORDABLE student accomodation and not some wanky underfloor-heated hotel.

Whilst there's nothing more 'affordable' than squatting, I'm pretty sure that's criminal, too.

[Jono]

This is criminal.
We need a group of dedicated students who will squat in FP and refuse to be moved until the university commits to replacing it with AFFORDABLE student accomodation and not some wanky underfloor-heated hotel.
This seem like a legitimate mission.....for the OCCUPATORZ.

If by affordable you mean more Fife Parks, that's not an option. The main reason the slum housing is being cleared out is that it's unfit for human habitation! The Scottish government refused to enforce the HMO legislation for the last four or more years! That's the real crime, as is the fact that the University has been allowed to take rent from people living in that place while effectively flouting the law!

I believe that LRN has lost sight of the fact that "affordability" does not have to mean sub-standard housing with leaking drains and walls that barely keep the heat in! Surely a more sustainable solution would what Lousie Richardson's proposing; nice apartments which can be rented out over the summer. The money generated from that rent could go into subsidizing the running costs during term-time and keeping the student rents low! Moreover, money saving could be encouraged by separating out the heating and electricity costs from the rent, with each house or block responsible for meeting them. Currently, far too many people treat everything as pre-paid!

[Haunted]

If by affordable you mean more Fife Parks, that's not an option. The main reason the slum housing is being cleared out is that it's unfit for human habitation! The Scottish government refused to enforce the HMO legislation for the last four or more years! That's the real crime, as is the fact that the University has been allowed to take rent from people living in that place while effectively flouting the law!

I'm not suggesting a carbon copy of FP. Just the basics, roof, heating, running water, whatever. How hard can it be to do that?

sub-standard housing with leaking drains and walls that barely keep the heat in!

In three years and four houses in fife park I never experienced anything like that. I'm trying to think of anything to complain about. Maybe the walls were a bit bad for noise insulation.

The money generated from that rent could go into subsidizing the running costs during term-time and keeping the student rents low!

The money the university generates over the summer does not and will not go back into subsidising students. This is an oft repeated myth that this cash is somehow available for students. I can't remember the name (something like Conferences and something services?) of the administration that handle it. It was mentioned on the last thread about this from a while back.

Moreover, money saving could be encouraged by separating out the heating and electricity costs from the rent, with each house or block responsible for meeting them.

Talk about a bureaucratic nightmare. Unfeasible. Extra staff would be needed (where would the money for their wages come from?) to even begin to organise a system of individually billing every house on monthly (or weekly or whatever) basis. Not to mention you will then have another flashpoint for intrahouse conflicts.

Currently, far too many people treat everything as pre-paid!

Because currently it is prepaid?

[Haunted]

This is criminal.
We need a group of dedicated students who will squat in FP and refuse to be moved until the university commits to replacing it with AFFORDABLE student accomodation and not some wanky underfloor-heated hotel.

Whilst there's nothing more 'affordable' than squatting, I'm pretty sure that's criminal, too.

fa⋅ce⋅tious [fuh-see-shuhs]
–adjective
1. not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.
2. amusing; humorous.
3. lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, amusing, or frivolous: a facetious person.

[Power Metal Dom]

Teh Occupatorz are already a part of Lower Rents Now, I think. No doubt much will be said/attempted in this name as things heat up.

[Jono]

I'm not suggesting a carbon copy of FP. Just the basics, roof, heating, running water, whatever. How hard can it be to do that?

Suprisingly! You should read the consultation document from last year. To bring Fife Park up to scratch would cost just as much as building new DRA. Assuming the figures are legit, it shows that (contrary to LRN's implied argument) construction and running costs cannot be cut by retaining and revamping (Link). If given the option, and the rents were even, I'd rather live in an apartment like DRA!

In three years and four houses in fife park I never experienced anything like that. I'm trying to think of anything to complain about. Maybe the walls were a bit bad for noise insulation.

I'll admit i've never lived in Fife Park. From what my friends have told me, I know of insect bites, pisspoor insulation, and vermin infestations, to name a few. That we're putting students up in such houses is an embarassment to the university.

The money the university generates over the summer does not and will not go back into subsidising students. This is an oft repeated myth that this cash is somehow available for students. I can't remember the name (something like Conferences and something services?) of the administration that handle it. It was mentioned on the last thread about this from a while back.

Err, perhaps its administrated by conferences, but the money still goes back into the university as a whole! If its currently not being used to subsidise accommodation, it certainly could be! Louise Richardson has already indicated as much.

Talk about a bureaucratic nightmare. Unfeasible. Extra staff would be needed (where would the money for their wages come from?) to even begin to organise a system of individually billing every house on monthly (or weekly or whatever) basis. Not to mention you will then have another flashpoint for intrahouse conflicts.

Done a feasibility study have we? Why must any change for the better neccessitate hiring a whole new department of administrators? The University already has a system of payment for fees, rent, printer credits, and countless other things. It has sanctions to recover debts incurred by its students, up to and including preventing them from graduating. it collects information on the energy usage in individual blocks. (By fitting meters (possibly pre-pay meters) they could probably get meaningful data for individual flats or houses too). There! Half the work has already been done. As for the rest, out in the real world, people are expected to suck it up and work out their share of the bills monthly. If nothing else, it's valuable to life-skills (something far too many students lack) and personal development, which gets people used to private accommodation.

Because currently it is prepaid?

Which is precisely the problem!

[Jono]

Teh Occupatorz are already a part of Lower Rents Now, I think. No doubt much will be said/attempted in this name as things heat up.

Really? REALLY? I recall vehement denials to that effect by the PCS!

[Hennessy]

I worked in Fife Park for a while. I wouldn't live there. If it was anything other than student housing it would have been abandoned long ago as unfit for human habitation. The main problem is that Fife Park hasn't improved as living standards and expectations have improved over the 50(?) odd years it has been around, and parts of it are falling apart now, when you get beyond the generally fantastic cleaning job that gets done there every year after students move out.

I say demolish it, but replacing it with DRA style "apartments" is quite bad as well. DRA looks and feels like a large dormitory, has barely any community spirit (check out the DRA bar almost every night) and is generally a soulless and uninviting place. Plus it has it's own problems (the walls seem just as thin as in FP, never mind the disrespect certain well-heeled groups of foreign students seem to treat the place & the staff with, a lot worse than most domestic students). Don't even get me started on why there seem to be about 30% more"managers" in DRA than are needed, or why certain reception staff had to be sent away on customer service courses after their treatment of the same was rated "appalling".

Build houses, not hotels. Students, not golfers, must come first in any University scheme.

[RandomMusings]

I was actually having a conversation with some university staff about this yesterday. From my experience of seeing similar building projects at other universities around the UK - particularly where the building and operation of facilities are outsourced to housing companies (for example Unite or Unipol etc) - DRA is actually extremely good. The hall spirit is difficult to foster there admittedly (I spent two years in DRA) - but the quality of the buildings and actually the layout (yes, the layout!) is much better than anywhere else I've seen for this kind of build.

Shocking isn't it?

[Haunted]

Suprisingly! You should read the consultation document from last year. To bring Fife Park up to scratch would cost just as much as building new DRA

I never suggested 'updating' FP either. New buildings are needed.

I'll admit i've never lived in Fife Park. From what my friends have told me, I know of insect bites, pisspoor insulation, and vermin infestations, to name a few. That we're putting students up in such houses is an embarassment to the university.

I recall it was the cheapest student accommodation in the UK (nicely contrasted with DRA, the most expensive student accommodation in the UK) at one time or another. I heard one rumour of cockroaches in a kitcehn once, undoubtedly there are/were other issues but the picture you are painting seems to be far from reality.

Err, perhaps its administrated by conferences, but the money still goes back into the university as a whole! If its currently not being used to subsidise accommodation, it certainly could be! Louise Richardson has already indicated as much.

If this is the case then great. It's been an absolute scam that DRA can make upto a million a week during summer business and for that money to then disappear. The money generated over the summer should be subsidising the students in one way or another, preferably through cheaper accomodation!

Done a feasibility study have we? Why must any change for the better neccessitate hiring a whole new department of administrators? The University already has a system of payment for fees, rent, printer credits, and countless other things. It has sanctions to recover debts incurred by its students, up to and including preventing them from graduating. it collects information on the energy usage in individual blocks.

Rents are one off (ideally) for the whole year, to bring in monthly (or even weekly) electricity bills that are first calculated for usage and then sent out to every house hold (how many are we talking about) and then chasing these up will involve a lot more man hours than basic rental payments. I would not be surprised if it were cheaper to keep things the same rather than bringing in extra staff for the extra work.

(By fitting meters (possibly pre-pay meters) they could probably get meaningful data for individual flats or houses too).

FP used to have prepay electricity meters, what happened there?

As for the rest, out in the real world, people are expected to suck it up and work out their share of the bills monthly. If nothing else, it's valuable to life-skills (something far too many students lack) and personal development, which gets people used to private accommodation.

Well why not just through them out onto the street to teach them 'valuable life-skills' (something that many students lack)? The goal is not to teach students anything but to provide them with a reliable service.

Which is precisely the problem!

Why is it a problem exactly?

[jequirity]

I worked in fifepark for over two summers and lived there for two and a bit years. The quality of houses varied but on the whole they were fine for us students.The walls were a bit flimsy i'll admit though but I wouldn't swap it for any other accommodation in St Andrews due to it being affordable and quite enjoyable to live in.

DRA is just a shoddy, overpriced midden.

[Fawksie]

This post claims that income from Conference and Group Services' summer lets does not go towards subsidising student accommodation, and I can well believe it. Who feels like grabbing a copy of the accounts under FoI and verifying once and for all?