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unemployed after graduating, how to cope

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Re:

Postby flossy on Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:51 pm

Quoting j from 17:09, 9th Oct 2007
No. You get over yourself. I don't care what your old withering man says. I didn't spend five years and 16 grand just to toss burgers in McDonalds you patronizing prick.

[b]Quoting getting on with life now. from 21:13,
As my dad told me when I graduated: "you know nothing about nothing and I wouldn't pay you in washers". - And my dad was a 100% right, I didn't believe it or like it at the time either. Get over yourself.


If you have a general, you pretty much have. You need experience and the wherewithall to realise that periods of unemployment look really bad on your cv - go to a grad employer with your interim work being flipping burgers and they'll admire you for actually working....

[hr]

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the substrate.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the substrate.
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Re:

Postby househunter on Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:15 pm

You spent 16 grand on a general? Man, this uni could sell ice to Eskimos.
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Re:

Postby sweet on Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:40 pm

I don't know whether there is any point writing this, as there has already been lots of practical advice given which seems to have been ignored (correct me if I'm wrong)... but

I'm sorry but I had to smile at your assumption that your general makes you better or more qualified than, frankly, someone with 8 good GCSEs. I've got a 2:1 Honours degree (arts) and I'm not too good to work in a low-level job in M&S until I can make the most of the money invested in my degree - I plan to do a PGCE and teach btw. In fact, there are three people with good degrees, one who speaks 3 languages fluently in fact (French, Russian and English) working as sales assistants in my department as the moment. The linguist is pursuing a second degree in economics, another graduate is applying for teaching courses and doing plenty of voluntary work. There's an anthroplogy teacher in the food hall (actually I think he just wants an easy life...) Do you see my point here?

Anyway, I'd never dream of sponging off my parents because I thought I was too good to do whatever work I could find!! What sort of job are you after? Anyway, here is my advice:

1) Here is the reality - you have been naive to suppose you can walk into a good job with you skills and qualifications as they stand. You have a general and not only have you been unemployed for 9 months, you have not done anything to further your skills or occupy yourself. A graduate recruiter, in fact most recruiters full stop, will not touch you with a bargepole in your current state. There are too many other graduates out there with better qualifications and soft skills.

2) First, you need to fund yourself, it is not fair to expect your parents to do so. Go to the jobcentre, sign on again, and look for jobs. Now is a good time to look as many places are seeking christmas temps. Temping by the way can be a good route into employment, and you will be earning money and gaining experience.

3) Develop your skills and experience by volunteering, particularly if you can't find a job. For instance, I'm interested in teaching, so I volunteered at a school. First Aid would be a great thing to have on your c.v. - St John's ambulance! Is there a volunteering centre nearby? What does your local council website say?

4) What about further education? I know one bloke that got a general from Glasgow, which got him nowhere, then came to St Andrews, actually studied, now he has his phd. He is ridiculously clever, now he's getting somewhere, but, yeah, he had to work at it. Everyone does.

A general degree does not make you employable, in the same way that wearing Rimmel does not make one look anything like Kate Moss, and going to Centreparcs on holiday will not morph an unhappy family into a happy one.

You may well need medical help, but this will not sort out all your problems for you. The jobcentre, your family, the careers service will all help you IF YOU ASK (nicely!) but it is your life and as you are an adult, your responsability. Just make a go of it, he who dares wins etc. And revise your expectations!
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Re:

Postby Guest on Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting j from 17:09, 9th Oct 2007
I didn't spend five years and 16 grand just to toss burgers in McDonalds you patronizing prick.


You have pretty much confessed to having a shitty degree. You arent going to walk into a "proper" job - it doesn't happen - people out there have better degrees and better experience than you.

If you aren't prepared to work in a less than "proper" job in order to get some work then you will probably be unemployed for a long time. Whats wrong with tossing burgers? Are you too good for that?
Guest
 

Re:

Postby Guest on Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:09 pm

I do not see how tossing burgers as well as other irrelevant jobs like labor will help you get a salary job in the office or a position in a specialised industry that isn't linked to the food industry in any way. In fact, I know that employers will laugh at it.

Update: still unemployed. But I have decided to aim lower now and applied to some crappy shop jobs just for the money as i'm desperate to move out my parents place as theyre suffocating me and controlling me, and i need my freedom. (i've had this worry ever since university and its like i am living my worst nightmare!)

Quoting from 19:22, 12th Oct 2007
Quoting j from 17:09, 9th Oct 2007
I didn't spend five years and 16 grand just to toss burgers in McDonalds you patronizing prick.

If you aren't prepared to work in a less than "proper" job in order to get some work then you will probably be unemployed for a long time. Whats wrong with tossing burgers? Are you too good for that?
Guest
 

Re:

Postby harmless loony on Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:12 pm

Well therein lies your problem.....Graduate employers aren't looking for someone who has experience of working in the business - they're looking for transferable skills.

I'm on a graduate training programme for Local Government and they had eight skills they expected us to have eg: team working, analysing, problem solving, working under pressure etc....they didn't care how we got those skills - but they expected us to demonstrate experience of them. One of the girls who is on the programme actually took a job as a barmaid after she graduated and was still able to demonstrate all those skills just from having the job in the pub.

Look at any job/person specification for a post..they will ask you to show evidence that you possess xyz skills..you can pick those skills up from anywhere - you don't have to have a highly paid job to be able to pick up those skills. Perhaps your view of the working world and the expectations of employers is not matching up with reality.

When I interview people I prefer to see that they have been working continously (even if it is in crap low paid jobs) rather than being unemployed for several months at a time. To an employer it can seem a little bit arrogant when a person says they didn't take on jobs because they were too good for them. The reality is there will be aspects of graduate jobs that you think are "below" you but you will have to do them anyway.

Personally I found that working in a low paid job after graduation was somewhat character building and I didn't have problems being recruited to a graduate post afterwards.

Everyone here has consistently given you good advice and you continue to act like we're talking rubbish - perhaps if you took our advice you would be less frustrated?
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Re:

Postby Guest on Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting from 15:25, 24th Oct 2007
I do not see how tossing burgers as well as other irrelevant jobs like labor will help you get a salary job in the office or a position in a specialised industry that isn't linked to the food industry in any way. In fact, I know that employers will laugh at it.

Update: still unemployed. But I have decided to aim lower now and applied to some crappy shop jobs just for the money as i'm desperate to move out my parents place as theyre suffocating me and controlling me, and i need my freedom.


I think when you have moved out of your parents house you will regret it. If they aren't charging you rent then you can save an awful lot of money. Sometimes its a lot easier and a lot cheaper to swallow your pride. Plus I think if you havent got many friends your parents will always be there.

Btw - If you regard the job you are going for as "crappy" you probably won't get it - Employers would rather have someone who really really wants that job than someone who isnt bothered.
Guest
 

Re:

Postby Guest on Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:34 pm

again, I can only reiterate what other people have already said here. there is no such thing as a "poor" job on a CV, but periods of unemployment stand out and will make you seem unattractive. there's no shame working in a service industry job, look at it as a rung on the ladder to getting where you want to. i'm working as a teacher now with fairly decent money, but the only reason i got onto the pgce (cambridge, mod langs) was because i was able to demonstrate "soft" skills as well as academic ability. just because you have a degree doesn't automatically mean you have the right to a management post in an investment bank - and without meaning to sound overly harsh, especially with a General Arts degree. I've several postgrad friends who are working in crappy part-time jobs like cafes and bars. do they like working there? no - but they recognise that it's a means to an end, and food comes in mighty useful if you want to write a thesis that'll (hopefully) get you onto a funded phd programme. reassess your priorities and check your attitude; i don't think it's beneficial to anyone, least of all yourself....good luck finding something, and i'd be very careful about moving out of your parents' place before you can legitimately afford it!
Guest
 

Re:

Postby Guest on Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:44 pm

Have you got a job now?
Guest
 

Re:

Postby j on Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting from 17:08, 2nd Dec 2007
Have you got a job now?

no i haven't. i feel like giving up, it's hopeless.
impossible is not nothing; impossible is everything.
j
 

Re:

Postby munchingfoo on Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:22 am

Get a fucking grip mate.

The world can be tough, and whining about it doesn't make it any easier. Grab what you want by the balls and do it, otherwise shut up.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!
I'm not a large water-dwelling mammal Where did you get that preposterous hypothesis? Did Steve
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Re:

Postby davearnie on Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:49 pm

This guy is an arse but some advice I will freely give.

1: Do not go to a recruitment agency for a graduate job - they will not even look at your CV, just put it in the bin with all the other guys who have a 2:2 or below. (and anyway agencies are not there to help you, they are there to make money!) (I know, I am one!!!)

2: Have a good look at your CV. Be very positive and to the point. Tailor your CV to the specific job. Find out as much as you can about the company you are going to be working for, its goals, targets, mission statement.

3: If you are going to work in the "service industry", try to make it as relevant as possible to your chosen profession. Also do something useful while working in such a role - do a course or something.

4: Remember, you will definately have to go in at the bottom of the ladder, there are no short cuts. But once you are on the ladder, it does get easier to move around and move up!!!

I spent a considerable amount of time when I left university without a "decent job". Some may argue that I have still not made it. But what I did not do what sit around waiting for someone to employ me. I worked in a call centre and did other courses on the side. I then moved into recruitment (mainly because I want to make a lot of money and have a lot of debt), you will make it, but work hard and stop being a lazy bum.
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Re:

Postby Guest on Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:48 am

Don't give up. You know that giving up won't help you. I hope you are getting more realistic in what jobs you aspire to in the short term. You just need a foot in the door, put up with 6 months of shit to get a step up somewhere else. I know you don't want to but really it will help in the long term. I wish you all the best. I have been in a similar place - I started work in a bad (shite) job (minimum wage etc) but I proved my worth got promoted, moved company and now I have a great job with good prospects, I am respected for my experience as well. Its not nice to admit it but sometimes you just have to get on with it even if you think the job is shit. Good Luck, don't give up!
Guest
 

Re:

Postby Guest on Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:09 pm

13 months now. i don't believe this!!!!
Guest
 

Re:

Postby nighteyes on Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:58 pm

13 months and you cant even get a job cleaning plates or pouring pints. Pull the other one. I am starting to think that this is a complete wind up. Either that or you are being a complete arse when going for interviews. Did you do anything at all at St Andrews like volunteer or be on a committee? Anything to show teamwork or communication? Right now I am serving meals to students and I must admit I am loving it. Its easy, above min wage and they feed me. I have something else to add to my CV so that I am not applying for something else with glaring holes in my cv. From the sound of things if you are being serious you have a serious attitude problem and expectations way above what you can achieve at present. Get youself a job not a "proper" job. Just do something for chirst sakes.

[hr]

i didnt say i was consistant, just right!
i didnt say i was consistant, just right!
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Re:

Postby Raindog on Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:57 pm

Get yer fish nets on mate
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Re:

Postby harmless loony on Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:56 pm

What kind of jobs are you applying for? And have you ever at any point taken on board any of the good advice you have been given so far?

You telling me you can't even get a job at a restaurant, school (assistant), secretarial posts, cleaning, or even as a volunteer???

I'm sorry I find that hard to believe. We've all told you before you need to stop being a snob about jobs and just apply for everything and anything. I've told you already as an employer I look for people who have been working and what skills they have picked up - I do not really care how they got those skills - I just need to know they are able to use them. But if someone applies for a post and hasn't been working or even volunteering for over 3 months prior to applying then I question their attitude and commitment. And that is exactly what all these other employers have been doing to you.
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In defense of the original poster, I can relate to what he's going through

Postby Stuart Clarke on Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:32 pm

I am sitting in front of my computer listening to the Artic Monkeys, considering whether they are as good as everybody says they are. I am staring because I have run out of 'job-speak' to use for another application. Can I be "flexible, vibrant" and somebody who "thinks outside the box"? This job requires a "go-getter", but how do you actually prove that?!

After three months every application is starting to look the same. Same speak, different day; a continual process of reinvention, where you attempt to make yourself stand out when in reality you have forgotten what made you good in the first place.
The most exciting part of the day is the morning post, where dreams of the perfect job are intermingled with countless bank statements and credit card junk mail. The post man it seems comes later and later every day, whistling along jovially as you wait with your anxious heart beat and sweaty palms. Grabbing the post with eager hands, looking through until I find it! This is it. This is my future...

Dear Mr Clarke,
Thank you for your application.... (Sounding good) ...unfortunately... (Oh no)... due to the high number of high quality applications... (Do I care?)... we are unable to offer you an interview at this time. Thank you for your application, and good luck in your future career... (Thanks, I'm going to need it).

Another one down & so it's back to the computer, where the process begins again.

Looking through the job sections is like a game of chance; where things sound good until you see the essentials part... must have a degree...(okay)...must have at least two years experience (oh no)...must have a science degree...(no no). Dreams are made and then shattered in the same sentence. Experience really is the key, yet how can you get experience if no-one is willing to give you a chance? Even work experience can be near-impossible to get, and how long can you do that without any income?

Now I know what you, the blessed reader must be thinking; where is this man looking and what kind of jobs is he looking for? Is he looking to edit the guardian, become prime minister, or even be Alan sugar's apprentice? Well, to begin with I had high hopes, looking in the Guardian Section and carefully selecting one or two great jobs, thinking (naively) that one will get back to me. Slowly, after about the 20th straight rejection without interview I started looking elsewhere and lowering the standards accordingly. Fish4jobs, Prospects, Total Jobs, Reed Recruitment; there are countless of these organisations to choose from, all containing strikingly similar jobs.

For media - a sector that is very competitive - sales seems to be the only way 'in', with countless adverts swamping all jobsites, up to the point where the very sight of the word 'sales' immediately puts you off. Now I am not being precious, as time has passed by I have started to be much more open to any kind of job.

'Graduate' jobs, I thought, would at least be an option. "Lower your scruples Stuart", the devil on my arm says. "Work for Aldi, for BAE, or McDonalds even. They are all well paid." And yes they are, and the programmes are generally good too. But to get on one is a 3-4 month process, against thousands of like-minded and equally 'qualified' graduates. Initial interview is followed by assessment centre, follow up interview, some team building exercises, leading onto a psychometric test or two thrown in for good measure. And then you may not even get the job.

Businesses do have to find the right person, and they do incur a large cost burden when recruiting graduates, so their approach should be thorough. But think about the poor graduate who gets to the end, to be told, "unlucky, you did well but not quite well enough."

I was told by keen career advisors to go to a graduate fair. "Put yourself about a bit", "mingle". At these places you find yourself walking around aimlessly in a suit, eyeing everybody up as competition, thinking of stalls you want to go, and when there, you are too busy smiling to ask any questions. Forget about handing in CVs - they don't want them. "Apply online", they all say. When you are sick of smiling, go to a CV clinic, where you can either wait an hour to be told how rubbish your CV is, or pay £150 for them to write one for you.

My parents and close family are confused by all of this. They thought a degree would put me on the right track to a great job, and to be honest so did I. They keep telling me about programmes they watch on the influx of graduates into the market, somehow thinking that this will perk me up a bit. It just makes me want to find another way.

My twin brother is the same as me - a business graduate from a great university. He should walk into a good job but has found that he doesn't "fit into the culture of the business..." or so the rejection letter informs him. Nobody told me it would be like this; hope followed by continual rejection. Rejection that eventually goes to the heart.

I have applied for at least 200 jobs and still no interview. These varied from jobs I really wanted to jobs where utter desperation took over. The only solace you get is a call from an agency that tells you that they are the answer to all your problems. You see agencies rule the job market now and you are guaranteed to get called from one that you have never heard of. "Describe your skills", and then you spend the next fifteen minutes selling yourself. But to what end?

I now know that when I apply for a job, 70-100 people (at least) are all going for the same position. People that have probably 3 years experience or a masters degree. There is no definitive place that tells you plainly and simply where the jobs are in one particular field, so you have to go through the sites, skimming until you find a job that (at least partly) sounds good. The biggest problem though is for all the jobs you apply to, at least 20% never get back to you, they are left like hope drifting in the air. I would like to see a time when it is made compulsory for all applicants to get at least some kind of response - but I suspect this will never happen

Now I realise that I am partly to blame for this. Perhaps more culpable than any business. There must be a reason for still being unemployed and I am fully aware of my shortcomings. Instead of taking a course at a good 'traditional' university I did English at Bangor, and although I had the best the years of my life thus far, I probably wasn't as clued up as I should have been. I had to go through the dreaded clearing, even with 4 A-levels of an A and 3 Bs. My first choice universities both rejected me because I missed out on an A for English, even though the same universities were letting my friends in on D's and other inferior grades.

Now, with meritocracy in mind, the government is trying to increase university applications, making up to 50% of college leavers attend university. In social terms university is great: The first time you get to experience life away from the family, among a diverse range of intelligent people with different and enriching perspectives. Going to university is no definitive answer though, and no guarantor of a job either. Many of my friends are still looking to join the job ladder, and I'm all too aware that we are not the only ones. I have to ask myself, would three years of employment have put me in a better position now?

I chose my course because I loved it, but I think more emphasis has to be on getting useful skills and employment. You can talk about transferable skills as much as you want, but the skills gap is not going to be shortened by a 10% increase in people taking media studies. All this does is add to the problem of credential inflation. Now I realise that employers benefit from experienced people, but talent should be given that chance rather than be blindly shunned without a second hearing. Maybe people with less experience should be given a test (hang on - wasn't a degree some kind of test once upon a time?), or a work placement at least to supplement their application. What is clear is that a degree is not enough.

And so I will return to my computer and think up of more reinventions for myself. I am a graduate in need of a break... Or alternately you might see me at a building society/bank near you, forgetting my aspirations once and for all.

Stuart Clarke
Stuart Clarke
 

Re:

Postby munchingfoo on Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:53 pm

I think our grievance with the initial poster was the fact that they were completely unable to consider working in a job they considered beneath them even after a year of being unemployed.

I would advise you get a job at a bank or some such place whilst looking for another job. That way you will have money, and work experience of sorts.

Good Luck!

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!
I'm not a large water-dwelling mammal Where did you get that preposterous hypothesis? Did Steve
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Re:

Postby Starla on Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:26 pm

Dude the best advice I can give you is this, my all time favorite quote. Good luck.


In order to excel at anything, there are always hurdles, obstacles, or challenges one must get past. It's what bodybuilders call the pain period. Those who push themselves, and are willing to face pain, exhaustion, humiliation, rejection, or worse, are the ones who become champions. The rest are left on the sidelines. - Neil Strauss, "The Game"

Jez

[hr]

"We all live in our Fantasy and only endure our Reality..." - R.A.Wilson
"We all live in our Fantasy and only endure our Reality..." - R.A.Wilson
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