3 things that would improve the union are...

[Spike]

exhillo i am wondering what you think the union's full potential is? maybe we might be able to do it already with the *inferior* current building. just a thought

[Colleen]

I work at the Union - humble cleaning monkey - and I have to put up a brief word in for a few things.

1. The toilets are always broken because - get this - students keep on breaking them. This morning a door was off it's hinges. It was probably broken deliberately, looking at it. It's called vandalism and it's not big and it's not clever and a lot of money goes that way.

2. If there is any money going spare, however, some dustpan and brushes would be nice. We have two between four and it's tricky some mornings as two of us peer at our piles of dust as we wait to mop.

Erm, that's actually it. I rather like the Union, actually.

[hr]

taking shots for mother nature

[jequirity]

The unions pretty good aye but when in regards to the toilets, i understand that its the students that keep breaking things, but i was asking for more rugged facilities, that won't easily break when drunk students get stupid.

[hr]

LEEERRRROYYYY!!!!

Andrew W K Day 9th of May

[exnihilo]

Quoting Colleen from 18:13, 18th Oct 2006etc

Actually, saying actually all the time is neither big nor clever. Let me ask you, did you actually read any of this thread before chipping your tuppenceworth (old money) in?

[the Empress]

She obviously read the original question of the thread and answered it. Amazingly, not everyone wants to wade through 6 pages of repetitive dialogue.

Quoting exnihilo from 04:46, 19th Oct 2006

Quoting Colleen from 18:13, 18th Oct 2006etc

Actually, saying actually all the time is neither big nor clever. Let me ask you, did you actually read any of this thread before chipping your tuppenceworth (old money) in?

[exnihilo]

What? Her post is not answering the original question, it's answering points raised in the last couple of pages. Also, people who don't read what was said before should stay out of discussions - just like you would in the real world.

[Colleen]

Yes, I read all of it, and my, it was fascinating reading, wading through petty arguments and personal attacks that said nothing concrete. I was replying the things that I was able to, out of an irritation at people moaning at facilities and staff. I have no idea about the Union's budget, so I'm not going to comment on it. I also LIKE the Union, hence me putting forward the way I thought the Union could be improved from my perspective.

(I'm tempted to add an 'actually' out of mischief. I won't. I have nothing further to add to this debate, since making personal attacks at users is pointless.)

[hr]

taking shots for mother nature

[Mohawk]

i've had a few ideas for the toilets, involving creative lighting, if you've ever had the over whelming joy of cleaning the gents in the bar area, it's got green lights in it,


they add a bit of shinyness to it, or they did until they died and were replaced with normal ones.

[Dom]

Quoting Mohawk from 17:29, 19th Oct 2006
i've had a few ideas for the toilets, involving creative lighting, if you've ever had the over whelming joy of cleaning the gents in the bar area, it's got green lights in it,


they add a bit of shinyness to it, or they did until they died and were replaced with normal ones.

Great. Green lights for the toilets. Innovation has been taken to a new level.

[Jono]

Quoting exnihilo from 04:46, 19th Oct 2006

Quoting Colleen from 18:13, 18th Oct 2006etc

Actually, saying actually all the time is neither big nor clever. Let me ask you, did you actually read any of this thread before chipping your tuppenceworth (old money) in?

Speaking of old money, or old guard, or whatever it is you lot like to think of yourself as;

Personal attacks against people I regard as friends! Bad-Chat is the correct phrase I believe! And by correct I of course mean traditional. By traditional, I of course mean that some loudmouth a hundred years ago said it once. And of course by one hundred years, I mean ten, if that!

She actually said actually a total of twice in that entire post, Ball-bag!

Quoting Colleen from 16:32, 19th Oct 2006

(I'm tempted to add an 'actually' out of mischief. I won't. I have nothing further to add to this debate, since making personal attacks at users is pointless.)

though fun!


[hr]

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Exclusive to The Sinnner, and all other forums.

[exnihilo]

Had a few, have we?

[harmless loony]

So a hundred and something posts later and the message basically is the Students' Association volunteers don't want change.....hmmm...great vision guys!

[Spike]

its not that volunteers dont want change, its just that there hasnt been a decent sugestion in the now 112 posts. the fact of the matter is, as raised by tryptophan, most people who want change want a bop with their chosen style of music and screw anyone else who disaggrees otherwise. if there were actually any decent suggestions they would, most likely, be acted upon

If you have a good idea, or indeed any idea at all about changing the events in the students association the PLEASE email graeme hamilton at DOSERV@st-and.ac.uk

[nicolafoister]

Well said Spike!

[harmless loony]

Which is not too different to those who are volunteers who only want a bop with their cheesy style of music and so screw anyone who disagrees - which is basically what you have done to each one of our suggestions.

I suggested time and time and time again that the Union needs to take the initiative and start collaborating with societies that produce successful events and encourage them to host them in the union - is that an idea too difficult for you to comprehend?

Someone else suggested making the space in the Union more flexible so that people choose to use the Union for their meetings/group stuff rather than other venues.

Which one of those two ideas do you find difficult to understand?

[exnihilo]

The first endangers the cash-cow bop and therefore will not happen.

The second will be rejected out of hand by certain staff members.

[Al]

Why was this thread started exactly? The original post was a tacit acknowledgement that the Union needs improving, and yet when people suggest possible improvements they are shot down for suggesting things that people don't want to hear. And I cannot see a post where anyone has suggested that the music played in the Bop should be changed to their preferred style. But would an "alternative bop" be so bad? Certainly within living memory such a thing was possible and it was successful. It's a sad reflection on the Union that there was more put on for students, and more facilities, years ago than there is now.

[munchingfoo]

Quoting spike from 12:16, 20th Oct 2006
its not that volunteers dont want change, its just that there hasnt been a decent sugestion in the now 112 posts. the fact of the matter is, as raised by tryptophan, most people who want change want a bop with their chosen style of music and screw anyone else who disaggrees otherwise. if there were actually any decent suggestions they would, most likely, be acted upon

WHAT A LOAD OF UTTER SHITE

You have just failled to see the suggestions because you are closed to them. Theeres bloody loads of them. Every one of the suggestions below is decent enough to be considered. Just because they are not your thoughts (although some are which is strange, where you saying your points were invalid too?) it does not make them not "decent".

Quoting Spike from 11:46, 6th Oct 2006
12 new ProSpots
8 new ProWashes
and thesps who put stuff away where it all belongs!

Quoting exnihilo from 20:06, 7th Oct 2006
1) Replace half of the permanent staff,
2) Scrap half of the student officers,
3) Spend some of the "cash reserve".

Quoting Mohawk from 20:37, 7th Oct 2006
a new low fogger!

Quoting Jono from 00:13, 11th Oct 2006
1) Hoegarden on tap (not that I have anything against the bottles, I'd just rather have a whole pint).
2) Repair the light-guns on the time-crisis machine.
3) A decent air conditioning system in venue 2

Quoting harmless loony from 14:39, 12th Oct 2006
1. Innovation
2. Variety
3. Someone with the confidence to put some changes in place.....

Quoting exnihilo from 00:32, 13th Oct 2006
What? Are you reading what people are saying?

People have said that more variety would be a good thing - but not at the expense of the established bop.

People have said that more advertising of non-regular events could not hurt.

People have spoken of their experience and of events and activities they have been involved in which worked well.

People have spoken of the need to reach out to as many of our members as possible.

People have said that spending some money on new equipment and on improving services and facilities would be a good thing.

Quoting Telinar from 15:57, 15th Oct 2006
Moving back to the original post...

1) Hire some good/well known people to play venue 1. If we hired some well known popular bands, maybe not A list, I'm well aware the Union's not made of money, to play the union, you'd pull the crowds in. The last I heard, KT Tunstall would love to do a homecoming gig and she'd pull in punters like wildfire.

2) More innovation. Yes, I'm not the first person to say it but it is a fact. Don't scrap the bop as it's a helluva lot of fun and it's well set up but we need more than the bop, desperately. I will give Lee Kane (DOSDA) credit where it's due, he's trying new ideas such as the run your own classes idea, not sure if it'll work but kudos for going for it.

Quoting Telinar from 15:57, 15th Oct 2006
Moving back to the original post...

1) Hire some good/well known people to play venue 1. If we hired some well known popular bands, maybe not A list, I'm well aware the Union's not made of money, to play the union, you'd pull the crowds in. The last I heard, KT Tunstall would love to do a homecoming gig and she'd pull in punters like wildfire.

2) More innovation. Yes, I'm not the first person to say it but it is a fact. Don't scrap the bop as it's a helluva lot of fun and it's well set up but we need more than the bop, desperately. I will give Lee Kane (DOSDA) credit where it's due, he's trying new ideas such as the run your own classes idea, not sure if it'll work but kudos for going for it.

Quoting October from 00:31, 16th Oct 2006

Quoting nicolafoister from 11:27, 6th Oct 2006
What 3 things would you like to see done that would improve the union??

1) A little more open-mindedness (of everyone)

2) More events, (yeah sure we all "love" the bop, but my gog, pinning everything on one day of the week, yeah that's smart. (people go to the bop because where else is for them to go? Dundee? I think not))

3) throwing eggs at Spike,
ok, that won't help anyone, but by gog I'd enjoy it, hell It could be a new event, I'd go more to that than I have ever the bop.

Quoting beanie_anne from 18:49, 16th Oct 2006
Not sure if anyone's said these but:
- a comprehensive notice board in the foyer for societies, events, etc. rather than hiding it away on the first floor at the general office where many students never need to go.
- a full list of how you can hire out rooms in the union and how much must be made on bar (if applicable) would be rather useful for fledging societies.

Quoting Rennie from 22:19, 16th Oct 2006


1) Sack Bruce and Phil and get some people willing to make change, with business sense, that like students and who have an idea of how to run a club.

2) Spend the £1m that's just sitting in an account to make the union more modern (toilets, Beatons, general maintainence, etc, etc...) and not be scared to spend it. The fact is, it's just sitting there making interest, Take a risk and stop the decline of the Union.

3) Look at other unions/clubs/bars that are successful. And do what every other successful place does - copy it. Links to point 2 really, you'll need money, but if the demographic of St Andrews is the same as the place you're stealing the ideas from - I would say it's 95% likely to work.

Quoting Tryptophan from 03:19, 17th Oct 2006

1) A ppo-CHP for winter, if you're going use a bunch of fuel to heat the place, at least do two useful things with it. Oh.. and please, please, please fix the thermal shunt valve on the v1 blower or just make it a normal tap...another year of heated bops because of an empty room in middle floor would just get a bit too silly.

2) If there isn't already, Powerfactor correction for the building...aside from all the switchmode gear in the main union, the PSU's in most of the moving heads and the wave shaping regulation in the racks won't help the loading.

3)A bunch of water recycling/auto-management stuff, seeing as that would kill two charges ( waste and fresh water...waste water being calculated from the fw feed under the assumption that feed=return), pull all the bulk water from a non-measured source means that it's no longer accounted in either input or output charges.

[

Quoting Bonnie from 04:23, 17th Oct 2006

What does the Union need:
1. more student involvement (I am seeing some innovative projects Lee is starting. I can't comment on how well they're being taken up because I'm not there to witness it but I can say that the descriptions are of new projects people can take advantage of from their Union's services).
2. more space for student groups/ theatre workshop/ all physical space requirements made into a sort of master list a few years back. Even if the space was from the University, the need is for it to be available to students and administered by staff who aren't pricks (not being a student anymore, i can now honestly say that some University staff are the most incompetant and selfish people I have ever known.)
3. a trainline: I know this is nutso and not something the Union has anyhting to do with, but it's what some of the crazy alumni say. I thought I'd join in. I almost think that our isolation is what makes St Andrews the way it is-- because we would otherwise get so bored out of our heads and kill each other, instead we eat Tunnock's Caramel Wafers, make films, and appreciate Asian music.

Quoting jequirity from 13:44, 17th Oct 2006
3 Things that would improve the union

1) More Bops like last fridays one

2) More rugged toilet facilites that aren't broken every second day

3) Somehow increase the size of the main bar and Venue 2

Quoting Colleen from 18:13, 18th Oct 2006

2. If there is any money going spare, however, some dustpan and brushes would be nice. We have two between four and it's tricky some mornings as two of us peer at our piles of dust as we wait to mop.

And yet more shite

If you have a good idea, or indeed any idea at all about changing the events in the students association the PLEASE email graeme hamilton at DOSERV@st-and.ac.uk

You can't criticise people for voicing their opinions on a thread which asks them to voice their opinions.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[munchingfoo]

Quoting munchingfoo from 15:04, 20th Oct 2006

Quoting spike from 12:16, 20th Oct 2006
its not that volunteers dont want change, its just that there hasnt been a decent sugestion in the now 112 posts. the fact of the matter is, as raised by tryptophan, most people who want change want a bop with their chosen style of music and screw anyone else who disaggrees otherwise. if there were actually any decent suggestions they would, most likely, be acted upon

WHAT A LOAD OF UTTER SHITE

You have just failled to see the suggestions because you are closed to them. Theeres bloody loads of them. Every one of the suggestions below is decent enough to be considered. Just because they are not your thoughts (although some are which is strange, where you saying your points were invalid too?) it does not make them not "decent".

Quoting Spike from 11:46, 6th Oct 2006
12 new ProSpots
8 new ProWashes
and thesps who put stuff away where it all belongs!

Quoting exnihilo from 20:06, 7th Oct 2006
1) Replace half of the permanent staff,
2) Scrap half of the student officers,
3) Spend some of the "cash reserve".

Quoting Mohawk from 20:37, 7th Oct 2006
a new low fogger!

Quoting Jono from 00:13, 11th Oct 2006
1) Hoegarden on tap (not that I have anything against the bottles, I'd just rather have a whole pint).
2) Repair the light-guns on the time-crisis machine.
3) A decent air conditioning system in venue 2

Quoting harmless loony from 14:39, 12th Oct 2006
1. Innovation
2. Variety
3. Someone with the confidence to put some changes in place.....

Quoting exnihilo from 00:32, 13th Oct 2006
What? Are you reading what people are saying?

People have said that more variety would be a good thing - but not at the expense of the established bop.

People have said that more advertising of non-regular events could not hurt.

People have spoken of their experience and of events and activities they have been involved in which worked well.

People have spoken of the need to reach out to as many of our members as possible.

People have said that spending some money on new equipment and on improving services and facilities would be a good thing.

Quoting Telinar from 15:57, 15th Oct 2006
Moving back to the original post...

1) Hire some good/well known people to play venue 1. If we hired some well known popular bands, maybe not A list, I'm well aware the Union's not made of money, to play the union, you'd pull the crowds in. The last I heard, KT Tunstall would love to do a homecoming gig and she'd pull in punters like wildfire.

2) More innovation. Yes, I'm not the first person to say it but it is a fact. Don't scrap the bop as it's a helluva lot of fun and it's well set up but we need more than the bop, desperately. I will give Lee Kane (DOSDA) credit where it's due, he's trying new ideas such as the run your own classes idea, not sure if it'll work but kudos for going for it.

Quoting Telinar from 15:57, 15th Oct 2006
Moving back to the original post...

1) Hire some good/well known people to play venue 1. If we hired some well known popular bands, maybe not A list, I'm well aware the Union's not made of money, to play the union, you'd pull the crowds in. The last I heard, KT Tunstall would love to do a homecoming gig and she'd pull in punters like wildfire.

2) More innovation. Yes, I'm not the first person to say it but it is a fact. Don't scrap the bop as it's a helluva lot of fun and it's well set up but we need more than the bop, desperately. I will give Lee Kane (DOSDA) credit where it's due, he's trying new ideas such as the run your own classes idea, not sure if it'll work but kudos for going for it.

Quoting October from 00:31, 16th Oct 2006

Quoting nicolafoister from 11:27, 6th Oct 2006
What 3 things would you like to see done that would improve the union??

1) A little more open-mindedness (of everyone)

2) More events, (yeah sure we all "love" the bop, but my gog, pinning everything on one day of the week, yeah that's smart. (people go to the bop because where else is for them to go? Dundee? I think not))

3) throwing eggs at Spike,
ok, that won't help anyone, but by gog I'd enjoy it, hell It could be a new event, I'd go more to that than I have ever the bop.

Quoting beanie_anne from 18:49, 16th Oct 2006
Not sure if anyone's said these but:
- a comprehensive notice board in the foyer for societies, events, etc. rather than hiding it away on the first floor at the general office where many students never need to go.
- a full list of how you can hire out rooms in the union and how much must be made on bar (if applicable) would be rather useful for fledging societies.

Quoting Rennie from 22:19, 16th Oct 2006


1) Sack Bruce and Phil and get some people willing to make change, with business sense, that like students and who have an idea of how to run a club.

2) Spend the £1m that's just sitting in an account to make the union more modern (toilets, Beatons, general maintainence, etc, etc...) and not be scared to spend it. The fact is, it's just sitting there making interest, Take a risk and stop the decline of the Union.

3) Look at other unions/clubs/bars that are successful. And do what every other successful place does - copy it. Links to point 2 really, you'll need money, but if the demographic of St Andrews is the same as the place you're stealing the ideas from - I would say it's 95% likely to work.

Quoting Tryptophan from 03:19, 17th Oct 2006

1) A ppo-CHP for winter, if you're going use a bunch of fuel to heat the place, at least do two useful things with it. Oh.. and please, please, please fix the thermal shunt valve on the v1 blower or just make it a normal tap...another year of heated bops because of an empty room in middle floor would just get a bit too silly.

2) If there isn't already, Powerfactor correction for the building...aside from all the switchmode gear in the main union, the PSU's in most of the moving heads and the wave shaping regulation in the racks won't help the loading.

3)A bunch of water recycling/auto-management stuff, seeing as that would kill two charges ( waste and fresh water...waste water being calculated from the fw feed under the assumption that feed=return), pull all the bulk water from a non-measured source means that it's no longer accounted in either input or output charges.

[

Quoting Bonnie from 04:23, 17th Oct 2006

What does the Union need:
1. more student involvement (I am seeing some innovative projects Lee is starting. I can't comment on how well they're being taken up because I'm not there to witness it but I can say that the descriptions are of new projects people can take advantage of from their Union's services).
2. more space for student groups/ theatre workshop/ all physical space requirements made into a sort of master list a few years back. Even if the space was from the University, the need is for it to be available to students and administered by staff who aren't pricks (not being a student anymore, i can now honestly say that some University staff are the most incompetant and selfish people I have ever known.)
3. a trainline: I know this is nutso and not something the Union has anyhting to do with, but it's what some of the crazy alumni say. I thought I'd join in. I almost think that our isolation is what makes St Andrews the way it is-- because we would otherwise get so bored out of our heads and kill each other, instead we eat Tunnock's Caramel Wafers, make films, and appreciate Asian music.

Quoting jequirity from 13:44, 17th Oct 2006
3 Things that would improve the union

1) More Bops like last fridays one

2) More rugged toilet facilites that aren't broken every second day

3) Somehow increase the size of the main bar and Venue 2

Quoting Colleen from 18:13, 18th Oct 2006

2. If there is any money going spare, however, some dustpan and brushes would be nice. We have two between four and it's tricky some mornings as two of us peer at our piles of dust as we wait to mop.

And yet more shite

If you have a good idea, or indeed any idea at all about changing the events in the students association the PLEASE email graeme hamilton at DOSERV@st-and.ac.uk

You can't criticise people for voicing their opinions on a thread which asks them to voice their opinions.

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[hr]

Tired Freudian references aside - your mother played my mighty skin flute like a surf crowned sea nymph trying to rouse Poseidon from his watery slumber!

[nicolafoister]

I didn't think I had criticised the ideas!

And since you have very kindly put them into one post I might just print them all out and take them along to the strategic plan meeting we hope to have soon.