How to reduce the cost of petrol!

[Caroline]

Just got this email forward, thought it seemed like a good idea. if you don't own a car you could pass the idea onto your car owning mates:

Hi Guys



I got sent this - sounds logical to me - haven't done the sums
But probably right? See what you think and pass it on if you agree with it.

Petrol is hitting 95p a litre in some areas now, soon we will be
faced with paying £1 a litre.
Philip Hollsworth offered this good idea:

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy petrol on a certain
day" campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil
companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't
Continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an
inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.

BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that
Can really work. Please read it and join in! Now that the oil
Companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost
of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take aggressive action to teach them
that BUYERS control the market place not sellers. With the price of
petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The
only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if we
hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol! And we can
do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea:
For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the
two biggest oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP. If they
are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their
prices.

If they reduce their prices,the other companies will have to
Follow suit. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions
of Esso and BP petrol buyers. It's really simple to do!! Now, don't
whimp out on me at this point... keep reading and I'll explain
how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send
it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at
least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the
message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have
reached over THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get excited
And pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will
have been contacted!
If it goes one level further, you guessed it... .. THREE HUNDRED
MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people. That's
all.(and not buy at ESSO/BP) How long would all that take? If each of us
sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all
300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8
days!!!
I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did
you!

Acting together we can make a difference.

If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE
RANGE It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email,
and buy your petrol at Shell, Asda,Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons Jet etc.

i.e. boycott BP and Esso.



POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!

[bdw]

the two biggest oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP.

Well, that acquisition certainly passed me by...

[Rilla]

Hmm, if I was a petrol buyer (which I'm not - I don't own a car), and I was considering boycotting any company, shell would be top of my list.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Boyco ... ycott.html

or if Africa is too far away for you to care about;

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71036



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"O unworn world enrapture me, enrapture me in a web
Of fabulous grass and eternal voices by a beech"

[alias]

Too bad it is not that simple. As long as the overall demand for pertol remains at where it is, the price will be dictated by suppliers.

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All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie.

[Prophet Tenebrae]

Too bad this idea is FUCKING STUPID.

The actual profit that is made on the petrol you buy is pretty slim.

If whoever did this had bothered checking their facts - they'd know the reason that Britain has some of the most expensive fuel in the world is not because the companies are fleecing us but because the vast majority of the price is TAX.

If I didn't have such a low opinion of humanity, I'd have to assume this was a hoax or prank... but as it is, I have to assume there are people this stupid out there.

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[flarewearer]

Quoting Rilla from 14:12, 8th Sep 2005
Hmm, if I was a petrol buyer (which I'm not - I don't own a car), and I was considering boycotting any company, shell would be top of my list.

I'm glad you'd then have a clear conscience as you set about forwarding global warming...

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[A66]

But if you cut fuel taxes you'll have to put the tax up on something else like increase income tax. If you cut the tax the petrol companies will increase their "real" price hence what we pay at the pumps will remain constant but those lovely people at Shell Esso etc will make more profit. The tax is on the supplier as well the consumer.

Because we have such high fuel tax we have one of the lowest "real" fuel prices hence actually Britain gets a better deal than many other countries – it seems many people feel that the tax revenue just goes to Gordon Brown to buy bottles of whiskey – not fund the NHS and compensate for the externalities caused by motoring on society ( as petrol head I still accept these occur - accidents, enviromental damage etc)

It's a shame the people who will head any protests are some of the people with the least economics knowledge in the country, the group that bases their industry on government subsidies.

Oh this idea is really really fucking stupid – the sinner always concerns me about entrance requirements.

Quoting Prophet Tenebrae from 16:43, 8th Sep 2005
Too bad this idea is FUCKING STUPID.

The actual profit that is made on the petrol you buy is pretty slim.

If whoever did this had bothered checking their facts - they'd know the reason that Britain has some of the most expensive fuel in the world is not because the companies are fleecing us but because the vast majority of the price is TAX.

[flarewearer]

it seems petrol stations never expected petrol to reach more than 3 figures (in pence) and their signs aren't wide enough for the £1 prices...

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[flarewearer]

it seems petrol stations never expected petrol to reach more than 3 figures (in pence) and their signs aren't wide enough for the £1 prices...

Anyway, this idea is fucking retarded, a lot of people now buy their petrol at the supermarket, who do you think supplies them with Fuel? When was the last time you saw a tesco oil rig or tesco refinery? Get real, you can't avoid buying petrol from a multinational oil company, and they are all as bad as eachother; you can't pick and choose "ethical petrol"

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[Rilla]

hmm, ethical petrol.

Yes, actually you can choose it.

http://www.ethicalmatters.co.uk/articles.asp?itemID=206



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"O unworn world enrapture me, enrapture me in a web
Of fabulous grass and eternal voices by a beech"

[flarewearer]

The whole attempt to justify petrol as "ethical" is just yet another attempt to buy a bit of clean conscience, when it comes down to it its still amounts to the same thing. You probably get 25%-off vouchers in the Guardinad for this stuff.

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[Rennie]

Here's the breakdown on where your money goes for fuel in the UK

Duty - 47.1p
Product - 23.2p
VAT - 13.4p
Retailer - 6.3p

Assuming a cost of 90p p/l

The duty on fuel has not risen in 6 years, in real terms. Our tax on fuel is 67%, in France it's 66%, Germany 65%, Italy 63%, Denmark 64%. We're not much different in tax cost compared to most other 'advanced' European countries.

Also, we have very few toll roads, and our road tax for the year is comparatively low. So, the Government cost for motoring in the UK isn't as harsh as it is in otehr countries in Europe. However, they still have lower petrol prices.

This must mean that we're paying more for the product and the retailer than any other country in Europe, which means the profits are being made by the petrol stations and the suppliers, not the Government. I own a car, and although in an ideal world I'd like to pay no tax on petrol, I know this isn't going to happen. I'm happy enough paying my tax, knowing that it's going towards public services, etc. that I'm in receipt of, rather than Shell, ESSO, et al., which because of the Government freeze on duty increases - these oil companies seem to be profiteering. If our duty was increasing at the rate of inflation, maybe the petrol would be the same price, but the oil companies wouldn't be able to make as high a percentage as they do currently.

However, none of this is taking into account Government spending on roads. We spend £7bn on roads, but we get £37.7bn in VAT, duty and road fund. We're the only country in the world who have such a distorted ratio - in the U.S the ratio is 1:1.

In 2000, the tax on petrol was 77%. In 2005, it's 66.7%. This supports the idea that the increased profits are being made by oil companies, not by our Government.

Also, public transport cost has risen much higher than motoring costs, even when you factor in the increase in petrol prices.

So, the solution? Invest the money from the VAT and fuel tax into public transport, reducing the cost of it below motoring, advertise this fact heavily, offer incentives, and see what happens. Then, the petrol prices won't affect as many people as they are doing at present, there won't be protests about rising costs, and all this will blow over. Maybe

[flarewearer]

Quoting Rennie from 12:00, 9th Sep 2005
This must mean that we're paying more for the product and the retailer than any other country in Europe,

It's because there is a more limited demand for left-hand drive petrol; the rest of the continent uses right-hand drive stuff.

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[Cain]

[quote]Quoting flarewearer from 12:08, 9th Sep 2005
It's because there is a more limited demand for left-hand drive petrol; the rest of the continent uses right-hand drive stuff.

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and so they benefit from economies of scale. I recommend that Britain switch to right hand drive as well, starting with 3 door cars and slowly phasing in the scheme over a period of two years.

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I hold an element of surprise

[Ironhorse]

being the son of a oilman i feel i can have a fair shout at this one as its always an issue for me. has any of you stopped to think that it isnt evil multinational oil corporations and government tax thats pushing up fuel prices but rather the fact that in china, people are starting to strive to have two cars and a house in the burbs, and theres 1 billion of them, so the country which is rapidly expanding its industry at the same time is buying up every last barrel, so the price has to go up for us to out buy them.....or so im informed. so as wonderful as it is for us to boycott and protest in the name of fairtrade and teenage angst it will be as usefull as trying to get a cow to shit strawberrys.

[Guest]

they have 100 suppliers in England and Wales, a lot of bloody good that is to us in Scotland, and looking in to it further, the petrol they supply is currently sitting at £1.56 per litre, back here in the real world I simply cannot afford it and as public transport is pish, what should you do?[img]littleicons/crying.gif[/img]

[Rennie]

Ironhorse,

You're right, increased demand from China and India is helping push the price of oil up. However, it's not for use by 'families with 2 cars in the burbs'. It's mainly industrial use.

And anyway, this isn't the relevant point. The fact is, oil companies are posting record profits. They can only do this by making a bigger margin on what they sell, therefore they must be adding on their own percentage to the general increase in oil prices when selling it. Hence, the oil companies are making the situation worse, by profiteering off a situation that is already bad enough, dur to market forces.

This is why people suggest ideas such as boycotting and protesting, however useless the schemes are. The fuel blockades are designed to get the Government to lower the tax duty, not to get the oil companies to lower the price. The only way forward is to not use the petrol, one way or another, and the only feasible way in the next 5-7 years of doing this is to increase funding drastically to public transport, and maybe offer grants to convert cars to LPG. Then, and only then will the oil companies feel the pinch. The market in the UK will decrease, and so the price will have to decrease in order for the infrastructure the oil companies have built up over 40 years in the UK to be profitable.

However, this whole debate is completely fucking pointless, as the public transport idea will never be adopted, and people will just keep on paying more for petrol. The oil companies give so much money to the Government, legal or not, and so why would the Government want to decrease the vast wealth these oil companies get off us, the people.

Flare. Why?

[alias]

Quoting Rennie from 13:44, 9th Sep 2005

And anyway, this isn't the relevant point. The fact is, oil companies are posting record profits. They can only do this by making a bigger margin on what they sell, therefore they must be adding on their own percentage to the general increase in oil prices when selling it. Hence, the oil companies are making the situation worse, by profiteering off a situation that is already bad enough, dur to market forces.

From what I understand oil companies do not dictate what a barrel of oil sells for, oil is traded on the free market and its prices fluctuate according to supply and demand. If private, non OPEC affiliated companies were cutting back on output that is one thing, but almost all are trying to pump beyond their capacity to try and reap the benefits of the high demand for oil, that's not evil that's just business.

There are really just two things that are to blame for the increase price at the pump: increased demand from growing economies like India and China, and limited refining capacity (oil does have to be turned into petrol remember).

The only things that will make the price of petrol go down is if we decrease the demand for oil by becoming more fuel efficient, close gas power plants, and build more refining capacity. All of these other schemes are really pointless and if they are ever coordinated, which they won't be, would result in a few pence difference, if that.

End of thread.


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All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie.

[Plastique]

Quoting Rennie from 13:44, 9th Sep 2005
And anyway, this isn't the relevant point. The fact is, oil companies are posting record profits. They can only do this by making a bigger margin on what they sell, therefore they must be adding on their own percentage to the general increase in oil prices when selling it. Hence, the oil companies are making the situation worse, by profiteering off a situation that is already bad enough, dur to market forces.

No.

They are selling more oil. Their margin can remain exactly the same (say 5p profit per pound of sales). If their sales go up (which they have), their profit goes up. Oil sales are at record highs, and thus oil profits are at record highs. Additionally, oil returns are about average compared to all industry (5.5 cents on the dollar for oil vs. 5.4 cents on the dollar for all industry) and are far, far below returns for banks, pharmaceuticals, biotech, software, financial services, health care, and insurance. I dislike oil companies as much as the next man, but they are certainly not as evil (at least not in the way you are suggesting) as you are making them out to be.

[flarewearer]

"Big business", especially the supermarkets have been in the papers demanding that the government help them reduce the cost of petrol to stop their profits being squeezed. Cut the price? They should bloody well crank it up, that might kick the supermarkets into some more efficient practices rather than the way they ship goods up and down the country many times over before they even get to the shop.

Supermarkets like to give over the impression that they are bringing something like salad direct to their shelves from a field (like that smiling mockney prick jamie oliver trying to make out that somehow Sainsburys are different from the rest). In actual fact they may be flying it in from abroad (even when there is plenty kicking around in the UK), sending it to be processed, sending it across the country to be packed, sending it back to a central warehouse, from where it will then be sent to a store.

It gets crazier for things like factory farmed meat (esp. chicken), where the chicks are raised in a central hatchery, trucked to a battery farm, trucked to an abbatoire, likely then shipped across to Holland to be "processed" (i.e. doctor it so it takes up more water; more water = more weight = more profit), ship it back to the UK, repackage it, often repackage it again for a different supermarket as orders constantly fluctuate, and then, and only then, it might make it to the shelves, or may then enter the processed food system to be turned into "healthy" processed meals (ever wondered why so many ready meals and processed foods and sandwiches are made only from chicken?)...

Thirdly, with that staple of staples, with bread, the majority of the bread in the UK is produced in about 11 bakeries, by "just in time" ordering, so ingredients are constantly being shipped in (after their own long and convoluted journey) and bread is constantly shipped out. Why? Because the supermarkets want to have their shelves constantly full of bread, its bad form to be seen to be running out. Running everything by "just in time" and not stockpiling any ingredients on site means that all it took was a few irate farmers and truckers to block a few fuel distribution centres and lead to almighty chaos. It wanst widely put about just how close the UK came to running out of bread in the fuel protests in 1999; the bakeries were pretty much 2nd in line for fuel after the emergency services.

Basically, we haveended up with an economy and the food we depend to live on tied to plentiful and (relatively) cheap diesel and petrol. If the trucks dont keep rolling 24 hours a day, we really are screwed. The criminally wasteful and inefficient haulage practices of the supermarkets (mainly) really need to be adressed; "local" food from perhaps 25 miles away can make many hundreds if not thousands of miles or road journeys before it gets to your plate.

This isnt an anti-supermarket rant, but its an example i know well, and is just to illustrate all the unneccesary fuel miles that are racked up by nearly everything in our lives.

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