Fairtrade University!

[Lid]

Can I start a 'good food' campaign yet?

I'll be stone, stone cold in my grave, before I drink such inferior, foul products.

[hr]

We are not drunks, we are multi-millionaires

[Lid]

On a more informed note, we don't do enough to promote freedom of choice. If it were my choice to invest in a non-ethical manner, and if it were my choice to invest in non-fairtrade, will the university meet my requirements?

If not, they're restricting freedom of choice, which I resent strongly.

[hr]

We are not drunks, we are multi-millionaires

[Lodestone]

Quoting David Bean from 22:59, 11th Apr 2006

Quoting puzzled from 17:01, 11th Apr 2006
For once I'd like to see these 'student activists' campaigning for something that would make a real difference to the 3rd world, like abolishing EU trade barriers.

Good job that that's one thing we're working on, then, isn't it?

http://www.peopleandplanet.org/tradejustice/

But, really, it's madness to criticise groups like One World about what particular cause they direct their energies towards, because it's a basic principle of the Society that anyone with any campaign they want to run can come along and ask us to help organise it. So do it! If you want to szee us campaigning on something else, do it yourself!

On a more informed note, we don't do enough to promote freedom of choice. If it were my choice to invest in a non-ethical manner, and if it were my choice to invest in non-fairtrade, will the university meet my requirements?

If not, they're restricting freedom of choice, which I resent strongly.

Don't be a numpty.

[Haunted]

Quoting David Bean from 23:02, 11th Apr 2006
Hey, reading the thread down a bit further, would you guys seriously be up for a boycott of French goods based on their government's support for the CAP? 'Cause I'd LOVE to get the ball rolling on that one!

Yes

[Lid]

I take it, Lodestone, by your resorting to name-calling, that you don't have an adequate argument against it.

[hr]

We are not drunks, we are multi-millionaires

[Lodestone]

Quoting Lid from 09:26, 12th Apr 2006
I take it, Lodestone, by your resorting to name-calling, that you don't have an adequate argument against it.

It's so numpty-ish that I couldn't really get my thoughts together before I had to bugger off somewhere.

Some outlets will offer a choice between Fairtrade and non-Fairtrade options, where that is financially viable. It's simply not going to be financially viable to allow relevant parties to choose the proportions of the university's finances which go into ethical and non-ethical funds.

You live in an institution, and so your lifestyle is to some extent limited by the rules of that institution--fortunately, we live in a modern liberal society, so not only are you able to take part in the rule-making process, the rules also offer you a great deal of freedom. But your "freedom of choice" is still going to be limited by what the institution needs in order to properly function. If you want to try and change retail and investment rules in the Union and University--do try!

[Tweedle-Dum]

Quoting Dickie from 22:50, 11th Apr 2006

Quoting Bonnie from 21:18, 11th Apr 2006
Considering the Union's been mostly fair trade for years

Is that just tea and coffee or do we go the whole gammit and when ever the is a Fairtrade option it is used i.e. rice, rum, honey, herbs&spices, jams and of course wine?
I would like to know the precentage of Fairtrade in Beatons and Offsales, anyone have a clue?
Are the University and Union using Fairtrade wine for all receptions and dinners?

I should hope not, we should, if using it at all, only use fair trade when it is superior to first world products, or if the product in question is exclusively available in the third world.

[hr]

Tetragrammaton is a four letter word.

[puzzled]

Quoting Lodestone from 08:12, 12th Apr 2006

Good job that that's one thing we're working on, then, isn't it?

http://www.peopleandplanet.org/tradejustice/

No, you're not. 'Trade Justice', although not defined in any practical terms (merely abstracts like a 'fair price'), is not free trade. Free trade is the only thing that is going to save Africa as country after country has proved. The abolition of CAP and the complete opening of Europe's borders to trade would do a thousand times more good to the poor of the world than all the money ever given to charity in last century

But, really, it's madness to criticise groups like One World about what particular cause they direct their energies towards, because it's a basic principle of the Society that anyone with any campaign they want to run can come along and ask us to help organise it. So do it! If you want to szee us campaigning on something else, do it yourself!

Even if I believed you that OneWorld was so open to change (which I don't), it is telling that the existing members concentrate on FairTrade which is nothing but gesturism.

Changing the Union and University's tea and biscuit supplier costs us no pain what so ever. Boycotting french wine and beer would actually inconvenience us, which is why no one ever even thinks of doing it.

[Rilla]

Aah, I remember the good old days in 1995 when I forced my family to boycott french wine and jam in response to the french nuclear testing in the pacific.




[hr]

Time Dedicated to You.

[flarewearer]

Quoting Bonnie from 02:02, 12th Apr 2006
errrr, Fairtrade is about third world suppliers... so unless you're saying Scotland should be considered a third world country, then...no.

Oh I see. So it isn't "Fair Trade" at all really is it if it selects who it is fair to. I didn't realise the principle of "Fair Trade" was such a pick and mix affair. It's hardly "Fair" at all if it will pay one set of farmers a premium over the market price and will quite happily sit back and let another set of farmers be forced into producing things at an unsustainable below market value.

[hr]

[flarewearer]

Quoting flarewearer from 11:47, 12th Apr 2006

Quoting Bonnie from 02:02, 12th Apr 2006
errrr, Fairtrade is about third world suppliers... so unless you're saying Scotland should be considered a third world country, then...no.

Oh I see. So it isn't "Fair Trade" at all really is it if it selects who it is fair to. I didn't realise the principle of "Fair Trade" was such a pick and mix affair. It's hardly "Fair" at all if it will pay one set of farmers a premium over the market price and will quite happily sit back and let another set of farmers be forced into producing things at an unsustainable below market value.

[hr]

[hr]

[Rufus]

Quoting Rilla from 11:06, 12th Apr 2006
Aah, I remember the good old days in 1995 when I forced my family to boycott french wine and jam in response to the french nuclear testing in the pacific.




[hr]

Time Dedicated to You.

No Bonne Maman or Pétrus?!

Dear me.

[flarewearer]

Quoting Rufus from 11:55, 12th Apr 2006

No Bonne Maman or Pétrus?!

Dear me.

Or genuine ancient mustard! :O

[hr]

[Rufus]

Quoting flarewearer from 11:47, 12th Apr 2006

Quoting Bonnie from 02:02, 12th Apr 2006
errrr, Fairtrade is about third world suppliers... so unless you're saying Scotland should be considered a third world country, then...no.

Oh I see. So it isn't "Fair Trade" at all really is it if it selects who it is fair to. I didn't realise the principle of "Fair Trade" was such a pick and mix affair. It's hardly "Fair" at all if it will pay one set of farmers a premium over the market price and will quite happily sit back and let another set of farmers be forced into producing things at an unsustainable below market value.

[hr]

Welcome to the 21st century. Do-gooding is a global affair, dontcha know?

There's also the argument that those who benefit from fairtrade are far worse off than local farmers are ever likely to be, but I see your point.

[flarewearer]

Quoting Rufus from 12:04, 12th Apr 2006

There's also the argument that those who benefit from fairtrade are far worse off than local farmers are ever likely to be, but I see your point.

Well then it should call itself "charity for poor third world farmers" (basically, infrastructure pineapples) then, shouldn't it? It certainly doesn't sound like it's advocating fair trade as I understand it, certainly not to one and all.

[hr]

[flarewearer]

curse double posting

[Rufus]

Quoting flarewearer from 12:09, 12th Apr 2006

Quoting Rufus from 12:04, 12th Apr 2006

There's also the argument that those who benefit from fairtrade are far worse off than local farmers are ever likely to be, but I see your point.

Well then it should call itself "charity for poor third world farmers" (basically, infrastructure pineapples) then, shouldn't it? It certainly doesn't sound like it's advocating fair trade as I understand it, certainly not to one and all.

[hr]

Why the pedancy over semantics?

Perhaps it should, but 'charity for poor third world farmers' doesn't really pack the same punch as a brand name.

[exnihilo]

At the risk of being hunted down and beaten: surely why the pedantry over semantics?

More seriously, though, it's more than a semantic issue, it's picking a deliberately cuddly name to disguise what's really going on. That's not semantics, that's fraud.

[Lodestone]

Quoting puzzled from 10:49, 12th Apr 2006

Quoting Lodestone from 08:12, 12th Apr 2006

Good job that that's one thing we're working on, then, isn't it?

http://www.peopleandplanet.org/tradejustice/

No, you're not. 'Trade Justice', although not defined in any practical terms (merely abstracts like a 'fair price'), is not free trade.

You just said "abolishing EU trade barriers" before, not the general principle of free trade, which, as a principle, is as abstract as "Trade Justice". All of these things-- "Fairtrade", "Free Trade", "Trade Justice"-- are brand names used by campaigners to achieve brand recognition. Underneath such banners we campaign for specific, achievable aims.

Even if I believed you that OneWorld was so open to change (which I don't),

Why don't you contact the Fairtrade Campaign, and ask them if they'd like to work with you on campaigning for the abolishment of EU trade barriers? You may well get a good response.

It's not about One World being open to change, it's about us continuing to do what we already do: acting as an umbrella organisation for campaigning of all kinds on environmental and humanitarian issues. I don't think you can possibly say anything about how we run until you start to actively take part.

it is telling that the existing members concentrate on FairTrade which is nothing but gesturism.

Nonsense. Fairtrade is one of the best examples of directly providing positive benefit to people in the Third World. It does do this. It improves lives. That's what it does. No-one pretends it's a solution: it's a salve. But it's a very effective salve. Whether or not individuals buy Fairtrade out of real concern or out of gesturism is neither here nor there: it still produc es positive effects.

Fairtrade has been concentrated on up until now because it has some fairly easy aims to achieve, and because it already has a lot of backing. I suspect that now there'll be a lot of energy freed up to move the campaign forwards. Again, e-mail the campaign, or, better still, turn up to a meeting, and offer your suggestions about where the campaign should go. Do something yourself.

[Rufus]

Quoting exnihilo from 13:24, 12th Apr 2006
At the risk of being hunted down and beaten: surely why the pedantry over semantics?

More seriously, though, it's more than a semantic issue, it's picking a deliberately cuddly name to disguise what's really going on. That's not semantics, that's fraud.

Oh dear sweet Lord. I'm not going to hunt you down and beat you; I intend to beat myself.

I'm losing brain cells faster than you can say Jade Goody.