SSS and the Union Scare-mongering

[A66]

To be pedantic (as that is what the sinner is for)

You said

Quoting Ben Reilly from 16:50, 11th May 2006 put forward a collective view

not

Quoting Ben Reilly from 16:54, 11th May 2006 the collective

A collective view surely is a few people with that particular view

[Laura]

I also think if something arises on a board like this whether it be six people saying it or sixty it is worth being brought forward for debate at SRC. By asking a representative to mention a problem you find with something you are not necessarily asking them to champion it, more to raise it as an issue that students find a problem with. Are we saying we on the SRC are only prepared to mention a case or state that there is student feeling regarding something if we ourselves are behind it?

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"When I came back to Dublin, I was courtmartialled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence."

[Dave the Explosive Newt]

Piffle, Ben. I'd say that judging from this thread there is a reasonable concern that

a) That email was unecessarily heavy handed in tone and may have been inaccurate to the point of scaremongering
b) that it was vague about what and what did not constitute acceptable behaviour
c) that it was only sent to final-year students when many of those taking part will come from other years.

I'd hope that any member of the SRC reading this thread would have picked these up as legitimate concerns and be able to put them forward.

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[Ben Reilly]

Quoting Laura from 16:56, 11th May 2006
There have been lots of times when SRC members have come to a meeting and have been specifically asked by a student to ask about a worry or a grievance..

I'm sure they have. But that does not mean it is an effective way of doing something.

often we find it hard to understand how students really feel and I am yet to be convinced that the SRC has ever had an effective way of collating evidence for a collective view.

Very true. It's amazing that we have so many posts that are supposed to be about representing specific interest groups then, isn't it? But at the same time, if we believe in a representative system of governance, then by the very definition, the collective view of the students should be the collective view of the SRC.

[Duggeh]

Quoting Ben Reilly from 16:26, 11th May 2006
Either that or find somebody else who feels as strongly as he does about this to come along.

You seem to be missing the point entirely. People in all years are revising. You have brought up a issue, which for once, people give a damn about, but at such a time that they cannot or will not spare time they normally would to go forward with their concerns.

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Duggeh: Master Of Ceremonies

[Dave the Explosive Newt]

Quoting Ben Reilly from 17:03, 11th May 2006

Quoting Laura from 16:56, 11th May 2006
There have been lots of times when SRC members have come to a meeting and have been specifically asked by a student to ask about a worry or a grievance..

I'm sure they have. But that does not mean it is an effective way of doing something.

Does this mean that grievances raised should be ignored out of hand? I'd say that any representative should be proactive in seeking out the views of the people they represent (whatever form they be raised in) if the representative system is to be effective.

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[Ben Reilly]

Quoting A66 from 16:57, 11th May 2006
To be pedantic (as that is what the sinner is for)

You said

Quoting Ben Reilly from 16:50, 11th May 2006 put forward a collective view

not

Quoting Ben Reilly from 16:54, 11th May 2006 the collective

A collective view surely is a few people with that particular view

Yeah, true. Sorry.

[Laura]

Quoting Ben Reilly from 17:03, 11th May 2006

Quoting Laura from 16:56, 11th May 2006

Very true. It's amazing that we have so many posts that are supposed to be about representing specific interest groups then, isn't it? But at the same time, if we believe in a representative system of governance, then by the very definition, the collective view of the students should be the collective view of the SRC.

Ben, by your own admission you don't have a way of finding the collective view. If your going to blame it on the system, then as always, I am exasperated. I dislike the system as much as you, but you have failed to do anything about it in two years so I really don't know what to suggest to you.
If one student comes to your office and has a problem, and wants you to raise it at SRC you should do so for discussion. This is no different. I just don't agree with you. But I doubt getting into a big debate here is a good idea.

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"When I came back to Dublin, I was courtmartialled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence."

[Ben Reilly]

Quoting Laura from 17:02, 11th May 2006
I also think if something arises on a board like this whether it be six people saying it or sixty it is worth being brought forward for debate at SRC. By asking a representative to mention a problem you find with something you are not necessarily asking them to champion it, more to raise it as an issue that students find a problem with.

My issue was that this is something that would appear to need a champion.

Are we saying we on the SRC are only prepared to mention a case or state that there is student feeling regarding something if we ourselves are behind it?

As you said, there is a difference between being a champion and saying some people think it's an issue.

As I said in my first post on this thread "If people disagree with what was said, they should come along to SRC tonight (7.30, Committee Room) and make their case."
This is not about saying some students find issue with what has been said, it's about making representative accountable for what they said. In this case, to the people they represent, members of the student body.

[Ben Reilly]

Quoting Dave the Explosive Newt from 17:05, 11th May 2006
Does this mean that grievances raised should be ignored out of hand? I'd say that any representative should be proactive in seeking out the views of the people they represent (whatever form they be raised in) if the representative system is to be effective.

But the issue here is what a student representative has said!

[Laura]

Quoting Ben Reilly from 17:09, 11th May 2006
.

My issue was that this is something that would appear to need a champion.

You never made that clear before- but even now you are doing, I don't agree. It just needs someone to raise it. It was posted, there's been a backlash, and I think you have a duty to raise it. But that is up to you whether you do.

As you said, there is a difference between being a champion and saying some people think it's an issue.

So I trust you will be mentioning that people think it is an issue.

As I said in my first post on this thread "If people disagree with what was said, they should come along to SRC tonight (7.30, Committee Room) and make their case."
This is not about saying some students find issue with what has been said, it's about making representative accountable for what they said. In this case, to the people they represent, members of the student body.

I'm unsure what you're saying here...
people are saying that they don't have the opportunity to come tonight and would like it to be mentioned. If you're refusing to do that because they can't come, then I think you're wrong. If you're saying that you will mention it but they should come to make sure you are saying the right thing then you can't have much belief in your own ability to truthfully represent the feelings of a group of students, however small.
I know what you are trying to do by encouraging people along, but when they can't (as they often won't) and you know there has been an issue raised, you should mention it- either to fill in the blanks and quash rumours or to facilitate discussion should it be required.

That's the last thing I'm posting, so you can have the last word and let everyone know why I'm wrong- I'm not up for a Sinner debate- especially not with you dear! : ) x

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"When I came back to Dublin, I was courtmartialled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence."

[Ben Reilly]

Quoting Dave the Explosive Newt from 17:02, 11th May 2006
Piffle, Ben. I'd say that judging from this thread there is a reasonable concern that

a) That email was unecessarily heavy handed in tone and may have been inaccurate to the point of scaremongering
b) that it was vague about what and what did not constitute acceptable behaviour
c) that it was only sent to final-year students when many of those taking part will come from other years.

I'd hope that any member of the SRC reading this thread would have picked these up as legitimate concerns and be able to put them forward.

I'm sorry if I'm not putting this across well.

What I am trying to say is this:
If there is something that has been done by a student representative that you do not agree with, the best way to hold them to account is to make them answer the questions you have about what they did. The best place to do that (unless Alex wants to come on here and answer) is at the SRC tonight.

If the members of the SRC feel that it is an "issue" then I am sure that they will bring it up. What it is almost certain they will not do is ask the exact questions that I'm sure munchingfoo would like answered.

[Laura]

Quoting Ben Reilly from 17:09, 11th May 2006
.

My issue was that this is something that would appear to need a champion.

You never made that clear before- but even now you are doing, I don't agree. It just needs someone to raise it. It was posted, there's been a backlash, and I think you have a duty to raise it. But that is up to you whether you do.

As you said, there is a difference between being a champion and saying some people think it's an issue.

So I trust you will be mentioning that people think it is an issue.

As I said in my first post on this thread "If people disagree with what was said, they should come along to SRC tonight (7.30, Committee Room) and make their case."
This is not about saying some students find issue with what has been said, it's about making representative accountable for what they said. In this case, to the people they represent, members of the student body.

I'm unsure what you're saying here...
people are saying that they don't have the opportunity to come tonight and would like it to be mentioned. If you're refusing to do that because they can't come, then I think you're wrong. If you're saying that you will mention it but they should come to make sure you are saying the right thing then you can't have much belief in your own ability to truthfully represent the feelings of a group of students, however small.
I know what you are trying to do by encouraging people along, but when they can't (as they often won't) and you know there has been an issue raised, you should mention it- either to fill in the blanks and quash rumours or to facilitate discussion should it be required.

That's the last thing I'm posting, so you can have the last word and let everyone know why I'm wrong- I'm not up for a Sinner debate- especially not with you dear! : ) x

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"When I came back to Dublin, I was courtmartialled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence."

[Ben Reilly]

Foo, sorry if I didn't get this across properly, but what I was trying to say was that if you have questions you want answered about the email, the best way to get that done is at SRC tonight. You could also try emailing Alex, but at SRC is the only way you are guaranteed a response.

[Ben Reilly]

Quoting Laura from 17:08, 11th May 2006
Ben, by your own admission you don't have a way of finding the collective view. If your going to blame it on the system, then as always, I am exasperated.

Not quite blame it on the system. How to generate a collective view from a number of groups is being looked into at the moment.

I dislike the system as much as you, but you have failed to do anything about it in two years so I really don't know what to suggest to you.

Tried and failed, my dear.

If one student comes to your office and has a problem, and wants you to raise it at SRC you should do so for discussion. This is no different. I just don't agree with you. But I doubt getting into a big debate here is a good idea.

But raising something for discussion is very, very different to getting the questions that you want answered, answered.

[Al]

Midget's first post is self-contradictory. Throwing flour and eggs never used to be part of the post-exam tradition. At some point the students obviously began to go against - and attempt to alter - tradition. So the University authorities appear to be attempting to put things back to how they once were.

[Guest]

Did the union welfare committee look at this before it went out?

[Guest]

The edict from the union also claims that the SA can revoke your grad ball tickets, which is a quite remarkable claim, given that the conditions of sale do not grant them any such power.

Not only was the email heavy handed, offensive, but also ignorant of their own powers.

Once again I am astonished by the patronising tone of emails from the Union. It is quite simply none of the hacks' damn business what people get up to outside the union.

[Dave the Explosive Newt]

How is anyone supposed to know when the SRC is on to go and complain? Isn't it usually on a Tuesday?

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[Bizarre Atheist]

How many Sinners offended at the above letter would it take for an SRC rep to make a comment?

2? 10? 100?

Surely every student has a right to have their comments voiced by their elected representative. When you go to your MP he doesn't tell you to go home and find more people with the same opinion to validate it.

Is it something of a moot point since the meeting starts in four minutes?



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