I've finished my exams and you haven't

[Dave the Explosive Newt]

So there.

[hr]

Mmmmmmm, cake.
http://standrews.facebook.com/profile.php?id=37102114

[Gubbins]

Exams? Exams are for the weak and feeble-minded.

Proper students do research.

[hr]

...but then again, that is only my opinion.

[KateBush]

Precisely I'll never have to do another exam EVER again. woot.

[hr]

The only way to avoid trouble is to BE trouble

[The Bitter Historian]

Shut up.

[hr]

http://bitterhistorian.blogspot.com

Life. St Andrews. Budgeting. Some history. Mostly bitterness.

[Bizarre Atheist]

Quoting The Bitter Historian from 14:21, 10th Jan 2007
Shut up.

[hr]

Quite.

[hr]

http://www.race2paris.co.uk
http://standrews.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204763785

[smile]

Those who can, teach
Those who can't, teach teachers
Those who can't even teach teachers, do research.

[Gubbins]

Quoting smile from 14:45, 10th Jan 2007
Those who can, teach
Those who can't, teach teachers
Those who can't even teach teachers, do research.

And what of those of us who do all three?

[hr]

...but then again, that is only my opinion.

[smile]

That's impossible, since you cannot possibly claim to be a classroom teacher who reseaches and trains B.ed/PGCE/PGDE students.(as in a proper teacher in a primary or secondary school, not some bullshitter who 'teaches' at a university).

Quoting Gubbins from 14:47, 10th Jan 2007

Quoting smile from 14:45, 10th Jan 2007
Those who can, teach
Those who can't, teach teachers
Those who can't even teach teachers, do research.

And what of those of us who do all three?

[hr]

...but then again, that is only my opinion.

[Gubbins]

Quoting smile from 16:03, 10th Jan 2007
That's impossible

I teach problems classes and laboratory work to undergraduates, thus I teach. I also demonstrate our facilities to visiting schoolchildren.

I oversee labwork for PGCE students, thus I teach teachers.

I am employed in a full-time PhD, thus I do research.

(as in a proper teacher in a primary or secondary school, not some bullshitter who 'teaches' at a university).

If you consider teaching at university to be bullshitting, you have obviously not met the right teachers, and I hate to think what your degree might be worth. Teaching in University is merely teaching a different age group and is fundamentally no different from teaching at any other level. Don't knock it 'til you've tried it.

[hr]

...but then again, that is only my opinion.

[exnihilo]

It's far from impossible. I have a PhD, and continue to research as well as teach undergraduate students, and I am involved in the training of postgraduates to aid them in teaching students. That would be all three things.

Smile, Gubbins is right, if you think university teaching is just bullshitting, quit now and open up a place for someone who actually wants to learn. Also, examine the logical consistency of your statements in respect of "proper" teachers and how they get taught to be "proper" teachers.

Sheesh.

[smile]

Quoting Gubbins from 16:38, 10th Jan 2007

Quoting smile from 16:03, 10th Jan 2007
That's impossible

I teach problems classes and laboratory work to undergraduates, thus I teach. I also demonstrate our facilities to visiting schoolchildren.

Teaching in a university does not require
the same stamina as teaching at secondary.
You basically 'guide', rather than teach.
You do not have any issues with discipline.

I oversee labwork for PGCE students, thus I teach teachers.

Do you consider yourself to be superior to
PGCE students? Until you have your PhD, you
are no more qualified than them. I'm sure
they just love you. You're one of these
people who hasn't been in a state secondary
since you left school. (assuming you were
not privately educated - don't even get me
started on that one).

Teaching in University is merely teaching a different age group and is fundamentally no different from teaching at any other level.

Mmmm...hello??? Do you teach 25 hours per
week, spend every afternoon taking extra-
curricular activities, mark for hours on
end? There are only 110 teaching days on
a university calensdar and 190 on a school
calendar.
But I wouldn't change my job for the world,
at least it's actually worthwhile.
Good luck researching rubbish.

[oddly familiar]

Quoting smile from 17:10, 10th Jan 2007

Teaching in a university does not require
the same stamina as teaching at secondary.

But somewhat of a greater grasp of the subject involved

You're one of these people who hasn't been in a state secondary since you left school.

Yes. One of those people. Everyone who has not been in a school since they finished should go straight to hell, no passing Go. They don't deserve to live. Seems like you're tarring a large segment of the population there with one large brush of contempt.

Mmmm...hello??? Do you teach 25 hours per
week, spend every afternoon taking extra-
curricular activities, mark for hours on
end?

No, but then again they have other stuff to do, like write a thesis etc..

There are only 110 teaching days on
a university calensdar and 190 on a school
calendar.
Good luck researching rubbish.

And a research job at university is a occupation that lasts all year.

One last thing: If it wasnt for people researching stuff, you wouldnt have anything to teach in your job, which is obiously so worthwhile that anyone who doesnt do it is the spawn of satan.

[hr]

saru mo ki kara ochiru

[Colin]

Quoting Dave the Explosive Newt from 13:35, 10th Jan 2007
So there.

I've finished two degrees and you haven't.

So there.


Oh, and Smile: I'm sure I remember seeing another thread on here where you went off on one about how university staff are slackers and school teachers are amazing. If it wasn't you, sorry, but they did use very familiar arguments. You got shot down in flames last time, and it will happen again. This is a university message board, and full of those who are either being taught by uni profs or who have degrees and teach at uni. So give it a rest.

[exnihilo]

Quoting smile from 17:10, 10th Jan 2007
Good luck researching rubbish.

Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Shut down the universities, it's all rubbish! Can you actually be this dense? This ignorant? This, what's the word ... oh, yes, stupid??

[Gubbins]

Quoting smile from 17:10, 10th Jan 2007
Teaching in a university does not require
the same stamina as teaching at secondary.
You basically 'guide', rather than teach.
You do not have any issues with discipline.

That depends on the kind of teaching you do and what level you teach at. Obviously, it rarely involves standing up in front of a class, telling everyone to be quiet and not stab the person next to you with a compass, and give the kind of lesson you'd expect in a classroom. Teaching lab work to a class of thirty first years who are more interested in doing their problem sheets and/or bunking off early, and who you have to teach as much as guide can be as challenging as teaching 5th or 6th years at a secondary school. There is a corresponding reduction in discipline problems, but there is still a need for some disciplining.

Do you consider yourself to be superior to
PGCE students?

In that I know more about the subject that I'm teaching, yes. Otherwise, no.

Until you have your PhD, you
are no more qualified than them.

Actually, I already have a second degree, so one could possibly say that I am.

I'm sure
they just love you.

I'm told they look on me quite favourably, actually. I have no difficulty in engaging them and can usually teach things at the right level for them to understand.

You're one of these
people who hasn't been in a state secondary
since you left school. (assuming you were
not privately educated - don't even get me
started on that one).

I did attend a state school, and I don't see what relevance this has. I'm not telling them how to do their job, I'm giving them the requisite knowledge to teach a topic that they did not study at university.

Mmmm...hello??? Do you teach 25 hours per
week, spend every afternoon taking extra-
curricular activities, mark for hours on
end?

No, I work about 10-12 hours a week, spend at least two evenings a week taking "extra-curricular" activities, and although I don't do marking now, I have done a considerable amount before.

There are only 110 teaching days on
a university calensdar and 190 on a school
calendar.

There are actually 120 at my university, but that is beside the point. The rationale is that teachers can justify this due to the number of hours they work. I have yet to meet a lecturer that works less than 60 hours a week for less than 250 days of the year. Many work 80-100 hour weeks and rarely stop for weekends.

But I wouldn't change my job for the world,
at least it's actually worthwhile.
Good luck researching rubbish.

I'm glad you enjoy your job. It is indeed a worthwhile one, but just because you have a vendetta against university teaching, don't try to use it as an excuse to lambast research. If there were no research, society would stultify. Without research, there is no progress. Chances are, without research, many of us wouldn't be alive today and many more wouldn't be alive tomorrow. Consider that before making such sweeping statements.

[hr]

...but then again, that is only my opinion.

[smile]

You win, but I still cannot stand university 'teachers'.

Case closed!

[exnihilo]

There's no real arguing with that, is there?

Still, assuming you attended this university and got a degree before doing what you do now I do hope you wrote to all your "university 'teachers'" to tell them you couldn't stand them and that they didn't contribute to your education, they could use the laugh.

[Gubbins]

I also think they (and I) would be interesting in knowing exactly why they (we) are so hated and what was so awful about their teaching to provoke such a reactionary stance.

[hr]

...but then again, that is only my opinion.

[ParisInTheAutumn]

All my essay writing is over, I only have two multiple choice exams left

[exnihilo]

Quoting Gubbins from 18:07, 10th Jan 2007
I also think they (and I) would be interesting in knowing exactly why they (we) are so hated and what was so awful about their teaching to provoke such a reactionary stance.

What you get out of university is proportionate to what you put into it. I suspect our friend is bitter at not being "taught properly" and spoon fed all the way through.