If you could change three things about the Union...

[Jono]

... What would they be?

So, there's been some lively debate about the Union recently, which it's high time we cashed in on. The older Sinners amongst you might remember what happened last time we tried this. With that in mind please keep it clean, and refrain from punching below the belt. Personal attacks definitely will not be tolerated.

I'll go first:

1) A common space into which people could bring outside food.
2) Replace SUBtv.
3) Replace the website with something functional.

[Frank]

1) Variation in bar-style choices
2) Somehow halve venue 1 in effort to make two venues. Extending to the back, might also help this (as no-one uses that grass, IIRC)
3) Late-night coffeeshop style place

Explanations

1)
Some folks enjoy the main bar as it is now, some folks prefer getting a bit of space for a comfy sit-down and a quieter chat (with union prices). If the 'main bar' facilities of this hypothetical redone union could be reordered, a 'quieter' or at least less bustling area may well be quite valuable.

2)
This isn't a major one for me, but it strikes me that the size of Venue 1 means that if it's not being used it's a big waste of space. But unfortunately its size means that it can't be used for 'everything', as it's too big. Making it somewhat smaller, or perhaps more modular, may well work. There was talk of splitting it into two (or more) venues which share a bar...could work?

3)
This is a prime attraction, for me. One of the downsides of the Friday night bop, despite enjoying the chance to see tons of people at once, is that there's tons of people there. If the Union were able to provide a late-night coffee-shop style thing, I imagine this would provide a decent amount of traffic, even late on Fridays and Saturdays. A bit of clever marketting and design might make it into a proper 'hotspot' within the Union. That said, the somewhat noisier 'downstairs' of the Library might similarly benefit from this treatment. Certainly if decent earplugs were freely/readily available for those wanting quiet-time in a busy area alongside folks who don't care for quiet...

[Delts]

I'm wondering about the possibility of food at night, toasties for when you leave? Since off sales has to close it might be a good replacement.

An area for outside food is a definite, I know why we don't want it but I think it could increase revenue from people bringing a sandwich and then buying a drink.

I know why we have Sub.TV, they pay for the sky, but if there is an alternative service doing the same thing that would be good. The adverts and songs are too repetitive and the playlists always going back to the start are irritating.

If possible I would like to see a third venue, between the sizes of venue 1 and 2 but better sound proofed that could be used for live events. Also putting a top layer at the height of the trussing in venue 1 would be cool, just for the tech though, no punters since it would be too much of a hazard with drunks. DJing up there would be epic.

The removal of the centre seating in the main bar would be welcomed, and more sofa's. Some lighting in the main bar would be nice and better speaker set up with designated quiet and loud points so people don't have to shout when they want a quieter drink.

Venue 2 is an awkward one, I've never been a fan of it but I don't know what I would change.

As far as Beaton's and the bar are concerned, I would like to see Beaton's more competitive, and open later. A reduced menu at night doing basically bar type food could bring people in. I would like to see the main bar open at weekends again during the day, and for the Formula 1 to be shown. Sofa's facing the projector would make it a far more competitive venue compared to other bars for sport. I wouldn't bother with football. The raisin basically has that market covered and it would be better to concentrate on other sports and grab less well established markets.

And lastly, the big thing, better advertising. It's the one flaw of this building. The advertising just isn't there at times. It's a complaint for basically every part of the building as well, from the main bar to SSS to travel services to the sub committees.

[Mellow-yellow]

This is going to be short and sweet

1) Nicer interior - a design that makes the place feel comfortable and modern so that you actually WANT to drink there and hang out as opposed to ónly going when you´re either very broke or very drunk. Also why does the union always feel so dark and dingy?? I´m assuming the new building design will sort this out though...

2) Coffee shop idea mentioned above is great - Beatons as it is, is rather depressing, let´s be honest. It makes me feel like I´m stuck in the 70´s or something. Other unions have coffee shop franchises in their unions, given our union is pretty tiny in comparison, maybe we could have a quality union owned coffee bar where you can get good take-away coffee and muffins etc to and from lectures.

3)More variety in terms of bar areas -I know we have Venue 2 but as far as I am aware this is not really used very often. On the busy nights why not have two bar areas with different atmospheres? The cheesey bop is obv raging away but why not have a more chilled area too with cooler more alternative music playing. I just think we need more variety to be honest, especially for honours students who often tend to avoid the union on the basis that the bop thing is best left to freshers.

[orudge]

3)More variety in terms of bar areas -I know we have Venue 2 but as far as I am aware this is not really used very often.

It's often used every night of the week, or pretty close to that, generally by society events.

On the busy nights why not have two bar areas with different atmospheres? The cheesey bop is obv raging away but why not have a more chilled area too with cooler more alternative music playing.

Like, erm, Altsoc? Anyway, generally, the music in the main bar will be different to the music in the bop - if the bop is cheesy, the main bar will tend to be a bit more "mainstream" and dancy (and less cheesy)... depends who/what is DJing though, of course.

[Fawksie]

3)More variety in terms of bar areas -I know we have Venue 2 but as far as I am aware this is not really used very often.

It's often used every night of the week, or pretty close to that, generally by society events.

Its bar facility is rarely used, however, which is what I think Mellow-yellow was getting at.

[Hennessy]

1. remove a speaker or two, you don't sit down in a bop, why should I shout to make myself heard to someone sitting less than a foot away?
2. Improve the range of booze available, ie some decent stuff - there's a better range in places a quarter of the size of the union.
3. Bulldoze the games room, make it a smaller cosier bar area, classier decor than the rest of the place.

[munchingfoo]

I only have one, and it's one that occurs a lot above, a lot in the previous thread about this, and a lot in every previous thread about this since I first posted here 7 years ago.

The union needs a bar. A smallish, comfortable bar. Couches, a couple of TVs, a few bar stools along the bar, pleasant friendly and attentive bar staff to run it. Most of the Unions in the UK I have had the pleasure of visiting have something along these lines in them. Somewhere you can go for a quiet Sunday afternoon pint. Somewhere where you can relax and chat to friends on a Friday/Saturday night. Going for a quiet pint in an open plan room the size of two basketball courts doesn't really have the same effect. There shouldn't be a reason why a student would pick going to say, the raisin, over the Union. As it stands at the moment, there are plenty of reasons.

The games room is about the right size I had had in mind, hadn't thought of this before. The bar in venue 1 is about the right size too, but you can't really do anything with the decor to make it feel right because of it's use as the main venue 1 bar on Fridays/Saturdays.

[amac]

SubTV.

[exnihilo]

Two observations:

1) Officers have been told by staff for at least the last decade that there's no point doing much with rooms upstairs as students won't climb the stairs. It has always seemed to me that the middle floor could be made better use of, and the opposite end of the top floor from Venue 2 would make a more sensible place for the various offices.

2) Why does Beaton's need to display food as it does? Can't it be like any pub and have a menu from which you order at the bar? That would allow the kitchens to stay as they are but to change the front of house part of Beaton's from a school cafeteria into a second bar.

[Fawksie]

1) Officers have been told by staff for at least the last decade that there's no point doing much with rooms upstairs as students won't climb the stairs. It has always seemed to me that the middle floor could be made better use of, and the opposite end of the top floor from Venue 2 would make a more sensible place for the various offices.

That strikes me as nonsense. Queen's Union has three bars, for example, one upstairs and two downstairs. If the facilities were of a decent standard, people would use them. "Oh, they don't come up here because they're too lazy" does not wash.

Using places like the Billiards Room as an overflow storage area for equipment and miscellaneous tat does nothing for the atmosphere of the place. And then there's the TV Room which lacks a permanently installed TV and has to be booked (and presumably paid for) and stacking chairs brought in every time it's to be used for its titular purpose. It doesn't much resemble the DRA Nisbet Room or a hall TV room, it's just another meeting space.

Another thing, why is it that the University Travel Service benefits from the massive premises it currently holds? The layout seems to be a particularly inefficient use of space, given that half the room is rendered unusable as office space by the positioning of the counter. I've never seen more than two staff dealing with customers at once, so is the massive counter the size of the Library service desk really justified? Surely a business such as this would be better suited to a shop premises where it can also make itself available to the general public? God knows there are enough vacant retail units in St Andrews at the moment.

[munchingfoo]

Not to mention the fact that they are the biggest lot of rip-off merchants this town has ever seen. I have yet to receive an offer for flights from them that I couldn't get much cheaper elsewhere.

[exnihilo]

I couldn't agree with you more! I argued to have the Travel Service moved out of the building ten years ago, and it's still there. I also said it was nonsense that people wouldn't climb stairs, and that it was a terrible waste of space to have all that junk up there. Look where we are now!

[Jono]

To be fair, the idea that student's won't use the top floor rooms isn't something that's been brought up this year to the best of my memory. Had it been, I would have pointd to the large queue of of societies reps which jam up the middle floor outside the General Office three times a year on room-booking day. Kind of hard to argue that point when each room is solidly booked 18:00-01:00 every evening.

Also the Billiard room has finally been converted into a third meeting room (complete with tables, chairs and a piano) for general use. Most (if not all) of the junk (or, subcommittee storage, as it's otherwise known) has been cleared away from the meeting spaces as well. However, I still think there is a LONG way to go if we want to make optimal use of the space available in the Union.

[exnihilo]

Ah, no, you misunderstand. There's always been over-subscription from societies to use the rooms. The objection that has been raised in the past has been to refurbishing or doing anything constructive with rooms like the Fraser Suite/Venue 2, the Salad Bowl/whatever it is now, and the TV room. The argument given was that it would be a waste of money opening a café or bar or whatever and staffing it because students won't climb the stairs. It's a fatuous argument, but it's one that gets advanced, along with not smartening up the toilets because they're not a revenue making area. Sigh.

[RandomMusings]

the Fraser Suite/Venue 2, the Salad Bowl/whatever it is now, and the TV room.

Salad Bowl is indeed still called the Salad Bowl (thanks to the last SSC reversing the decision of 14 months ago to rename it the Dover Suite). On that basis, Venue 2 is also known solely as Venue 2 rather than the Fraser Suite. Surprisingly, the TV Room's name is unchanged.

I hope the redevelopment will take many of the suggestions on here into account. I like some of the suggestions for Beatons and the bar.

[careba2010]

Part of me wants to say get a wrecking ball in and start again something really cool with glass to make it kind of airy and light and bright- something which people will remember. At my Sixth Form College they had a really grotty inner courtyard so they put a roof on it and turned it into a really nice place to work if they could do something like this for the Union it would be great here is a picture of the former grotty courtyard http://www.qeliz.ac.uk/pages/atrium . The bridges between the two buildings could be hired for group working. In a ideal Union they could be used as a coffee area/ chill out zone. The atrium area could be used as a kind of arcade with all the Businesses the Union currently have being together eg BESS, Blackwells and the Travel Service and possibly a Beatons

As that is unlikely due to lack of funds a good lick of paint and some new lino would be a good place to start. I like the idea of a chill out zone in the games room. I believe that the top floor needs major work (as do the Loos!). I would advise getting rid of the nasty mural and carpet in the Salad Bowl- also do something to the Kitchen on the top floor as I have never seen it being used and it is a waste of space. Sort out the TV/Billiard room once again a lick of paint and new flooring what about Laminate?.

I always find that compared to the middle floor of the union , the top floor seems permanantly dingy, gloomy and grimy. Some new lights would also work wonders on the top floor as would new flooring just modernise it a bit and people would use it more

[exnihilo]

Is BESS still out front and the bookshop inside the building? That's always struck me as an odd arrangement. Insofar as either has a broader appeal, I'd have thought it was the bookshop and that a great deal more rent could be asked for a street front location than tucked away inside. That said, I think even having BESS is slightly bizarre, but that may just be me. I only wish we'd grasped the nettle when Murray & Donald sold the building opposite, it would have been ideal.

[theshadowhost]

fuck everything else - keep offsales. Without it we can say goodbye to awesome impromptu parties.

[Fawksie]

Yes, exnihilo, the locations of BESS and Blackwells haven't changed. Planning permission has been granted to redesign the entrance vestibule, trebling the width of the current outer doors and taking out the glass block wall, moving back the inner set of doors, and cutting the corner off Blackwells' unit to open out the space.



Did the D'Ardenne era Action Plan not say that Beatons would be moved to the street front, along with or in place of BESS?

Also, theshadowhost, changes in licensing law force the closure of offsales, if I remember correctly.