Computers

[Annie]

Hallo,

I am considering purchasing a laptop once I arrive in St. Andrews, avoiding the need to carry my desktop with me from the States. Is there a shop in town where one could find a decent laptop/desktop?

Thanks!
Annie

[RedCelt69]

Yep. If you need to look for shops or services, try http://www.yell.com

http://www.digitalitcentre.co.uk/ is your best bet. Lots more options to be found in Edinburgh if you're passing through.

[LonelyPilgrim]

Why not purchase a laptop in the US? You would mostly likely be able to find a better deal in the States, and laptops aren't terribly hard to transport - being as that's their purpose. Furthermore, if you are American it makes more sense to buy a machine in the US so that you get a US plug and then buy an adapter in the UK to use while you are there, than it does to get a UK plug and have to use an adapter in the US, even after you finish your degree - assuming you return to the States and have the same laptop.

[Super Jock]

Only speaking for apples, but they aren't cheaper in america. Once state tax is added on, and you take of the 16% University student discount then they are cheaper in the UK, plus come with the right plug points. On the mac point of view i did the sums tones of times. I did buy mine in America though, that was only because the free ipod deal at the time was better.

St Andrews has one notable computer shop at the edge of town centre and a dixon. Both I wouldn't expect to be cheapest option. Once again for apple macs, but they deliver quick and free and buying over the phone is easy, all you need is a matriculation card for the discount.

[queen of scots]

St Andrews has one notable computer shop at the edge of town centre and a dixon. Both I wouldn't expect to be cheapest option.

It's a Currys, and when I last walked past it it had a big closing down sale sign in the window. So you might get some discounts - if it's still there when you arrive. Larger supermarkets (such as the Dundee Tesco) often sell really cheap laptops if you're just after something basic.

[donpablo]

I would agree with LonelyPilgrim.

Bought my laptop in the States two years ago and it was an absolute bargain compared to UK prices (the exchange rate was 2:1 tho). It's still going strong and I use it for everything. I can't confirm if Mac's are cheaper or not but why would you want one of those? Adapters cost next to nothing and do the trick. If you want your laptop to play your DVD's then there is no fiddling about with region settings either.

The last time I passed Curry's in St Andrews I can't honestly say I noticed any bargains in their closing down sale. They are notoriously expensive for what you get.

[James01]

Simple thing to do would be choose a laptop you like online before you come over, then when you get your address (I assume your living in halls) order it and have it shipped to your door.

Oh, and I would recommend taking advantage of the Apple educational discount. Great laptops and the discount really helps to make them a bit more affordable.

[jequirity]

I'd recommend http://www.overclockers.co.uk/ or http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/ for purchasing laptops.

If you need help deciding what kind of laptop is best for you i'd recommend these forums for some very good advice:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/
http://www.hardforum.com/

[ONeill]

Overclockers is always worth a look as their pricing is usually competitive. I have to admit though that I'm wary of their technical support after having them refuse to accept defective components back several times despite agreeing on the phone and by email that they would. In the end they did replace the components when pushed.

[Delts]

I would also recommend Overclockers.co.uk. My advice would be to just shop online though. You could get a laptop in St Andrews, but there isn't any real choice.

[Thalia]

If you're not a computer geek like half of the sinner are, have a look at www.dell.co.uk - they're affordable and pretty reliable. I got both my desktop and my laptop from them. Had a problem with the hard drive of the desktop a few months after buying it, they sent someone out for free to replace it with very little hassle (other than the usual waiting for ages on the phone and having to go through their list of really obvious things you could try to fix it yourself of course )

[orudge]

I would recommend having a look at Apple's site, with the student discount. Excellent laptops - admittedly a bit more expensive, but very reliable. Plus you get a 3-year warranty if you buy it from the student site.

[wild_quinine]

Advice here so far is not at all bad as a general overview. Well played this forum.

In terms of money, the main thing I would say is that I wouldn't buy a laptop from a high street store, period. Especially not in a place as small as St. Andrews. You can usually save a lot of money buying on the internet, if you know what you're after, and are happy to shop around.

Do you have a budget in mind? What things does it need to do? What size do you want it to be? Extra tiny portable, or normal size?

[Daniel]

St Andrews has one notable computer shop at the edge of town centre and a dixon. Both I wouldn't expect to be cheapest option.

It's a Currys, and when I last walked past it it had a big closing down sale sign in the window. So you might get some discounts - if it's still there when you arrive. Larger supermarkets (such as the Dundee Tesco) often sell really cheap laptops if you're just after something basic.

There are two independents in the centre of town -- one north of the Westport, and one just east of the Westport on South Street.

All the same, its another vote for apple from me.

Daniel

[donpablo]

I wouldn't recommend a Mac at all unless you just wanted one to look 'trendy'. PC's all the way. Choice of operating system is open to debate though. It depends what you need it for and your level of computer knowledge. Cheap netbook with Ubuntu might be worth looking at but I can't really recommend it as I don't know exactly what you're looking for.

[RedCelt69]

I wouldn't recommend a Mac at all unless you just wanted one to look 'trendy'.

I've been using (IBM-compatible) PCs since the PC was invented. And for the last 6 months I've been using a Macbook. Nothing to do with it being "trendy". It does everything a student would need. And does it well. Just as well as a non-Mac notebook. As others have pointed out, the student discount makes it a more affordable option than you might think.

[wild_quinine]

I've been using (IBM-compatible) PCs since the PC was invented. And for the last 6 months I've been using a Macbook. Nothing to do with it being "trendy". It does everything a student would need. And does it well. Just as well as a non-Mac notebook. As others have pointed out, the student discount makes it a more affordable option than you might think.

For students, Apple machines are definitely affordable, as long as you get the HE discount - which is to say that there are a lot of style-over-content PCs out that that cost a damn sight more (Vaio, anyone?), and there are also some reasonably well built machines for a decent amount less as well. So unless money is your main concern, they're definitely up for consideration.

Further, Mac OS X is a wonderful and, in most cases, perfectly viable Operating System.

But there are a few things that need to be taken into account. It's not quite fair to say 'It does everything a student would need', because that's not always going to be true.

Unless you just mean 'the average, essay writing, web surfing, net chatting' student, then you might be leading people up the garden path - the thing is that there are a lot of Windows only programs which many students might need to use, or would at least benefit from.

This could include such things as: Accessibility software, Bibliographic Software, Architectural and Engineering Design (e.g. CAD), Statistical Analysis packages, etc. Many of these packages may be specced or recommended by individual schools, so even where a competing product exists on Mac, it may not be entirely appropriate to use it. At which point, a student could be genuinely disadvantaged by owning a Mac.

The other point is that even 'the average, essay writing, web surfing, net chatting student' might come a cropper ocassionally in a University setting. Apple are not as easily integrated into most Enterprise level environments as Windows PCs, and even for using web applications, the way that dependencies work can often be slightly different. (Just for one example, Apple have their own version of Java, and there's no rolling back to previous versions if an update stops you from getting into some online course, or past papers resource, or whatever.)

That sort of stuff is usually no problem for the home broadband user, but if you plan on connecting to, or using, the systems of an Enterprise level environment, such as a University, then you might find yourself getting stuck with a Mac, just occasionally. That might be a big thing, or a small thing. It could be the University's wireless service, or the VPN, or some kind of Web Portal, or Virtual Learning Environment. If there's an online component to a course you're taking, and you can't do it with a Mac, then that might seem like a big thing...

Yes, modern Macs can run Windows. So that mitigates a number of problems... If you're technical enough to dual-boot, and have the money to pay for a Mac and then buy Windows as well, then this is a great solution, and you'll find out which one you prefer quickly enough - as well as seeing how often you end up booting into Windows. Might be a little, might be a lot. You'll probably want to use a mouse with your laptop whilst in Windows, if you get a Mac.

One last point on the OS X vs. Windows debate: There is a general perception that Apple is a better company. I don't know why this is, but many (probably most) OS X users seem to like Apple. Whereas very few Windows users, even those who really LOVE Windows, would profess to like Microsoft.

This is dumb. They are both after your money, and they both care more about getting it than they care about you. The only sensible outlook is not to 'like' either of them, but rather to buy whichever product you prefer most, or can get the most benefit from. That should be the extent of your relationship. Both companies have made some very mean spirited decisions. The bigger Apple get, the more mean-spirited their decisions can afford to be.

I don't want to scaremonger. For most things, these days, especially since so much gets done on the web, you're probably A-Okay with a Mac. But fundamentally Mac OS X and Windows are very different under the hood, and sometimes they just won't do the same things in the same way.

[RedCelt69]

Unless you just mean 'the average, essay writing, web surfing, net chatting' student, then you might be leading people up the garden path - the thing is that there are a lot of Windows only programs which many students might need to use, or would at least benefit from.

Well, yes. That is what I meant. I'd initially had problems with the word processing package I originally installed (OpenOffice) as, despite being able to open and save documents in MS Word format, it tended to be buggy when it came to scrolling pages. I found I would have to repeatedly scroll up and down between pages before it sorted itself out... and it happened regularly. Frustrating - even in a relatively small document (such as a 1700 word essay). The solution that worked for me was to install the Mac version of MS Word. Mainly because I'm so familiar with it. If this solution seems like a "cheat" coming from a "Mac lover", as you pointed out yourself, it is nonsensical to get embroiled in the sectarian Mac v PC mindset. Both have their pros and cons.

Windows XP was the best operating system Microsoft ever released. Windows Vista its worst (and I used Windows for Workgroups). I've been hearing very good things about Windows 7 and if my PC wasn't nearing the end of its viable lifespan I'd have installed it by now. Mac OS X is certainly a good operating system, although I'm still getting to grips with it.

Indeed, as you say, if your coursework involves application (and platform) specific computing not available to a Mac, you may be in difficulty (although, even then, I'd allowed for a dual-boot system).

The key word here is "if". Are there any courses which aren't Mac-friendly (i.e. require software not available on a Mac without offering a Mac alternative)?

[Daniel]

This could include such things as: Accessibility software, Bibliographic Software, Architectural and Engineering Design (e.g. CAD), Statistical Analysis packages, etc. Many of these packages may be specced or recommended by individual schools, so even where a competing product exists on Mac, it may not be entirely appropriate to use it. At which point, a student could be genuinely disadvantaged by owning a Mac.

I can't claim to have used accessibility software much, but Macs have run TTS and so on since around OS 4 (!) -- that's nearly as long as Microsoft has been using a GUI. With bibliographic software, I'd say BibTex is king and in this case the Mac's unix-environment is definitely a plus. Fair point with CAD but aren't most statistical analysis packages GNU / F/OSS?

The other point is that even 'the average, essay writing, web surfing, net chatting student' might come a cropper ocassionally in a University setting. Apple are not as easily integrated into most Enterprise level environments as Windows PCs, and even for using web applications, the way that dependencies work can often be slightly different. (Just for one example, Apple have their own version of Java, and there's no rolling back to previous versions if an update stops you from getting into some online course, or past papers resource, or whatever.)

I can't say I've ever had any problems. I can print to the Uni's print servers, connect to eduroam, use Mail for emailing and in most cases better than the Windows equivalent. Mail even connect to the Uni's LDAP store for auto-completion of addresses. Now that's cool! With ITS is moving to google calendar, I know support will be provided out of the box. Snow Leopard is now boasting improved support for exchange but I'm not really sure I know what its doing now that it wasn't doing before.

And you're wrong about Java. While Apple do distribute their own version of Java, Macs keep a full installation of all previously-installed JREs and their dependencies so that changing your runtime version is as simple as selecting the correct one in Control Panel. In fact, I *think* most OSes including Windows do that.

But fundamentally Mac OS X and Windows are very different under the hood, and sometimes they just won't do the same things in the same way.

They run the same hardware, have the same processor, memory and graphics specifications, and in many cases hardware even comes from the same manufacturers. If you install an API layer like Wine, the OS will even respond to the same API calls meaning you can run Windows software alongside your Mac programs.

And, hey, if the worst comes to the worst, dual-booting is not hard.

Daniel

[Daniel]

Windows XP was the best operating system Microsoft ever released. Windows Vista its worst (and I used Windows for Workgroups). I've been hearing very good things about Windows 7 and if my PC wasn't nearing the end of its viable lifespan I'd have installed it by now. Mac OS X is certainly a good operating system, although I'm still getting to grips with it.

Hate to disagree but I'd say 2000 was the best OS they ever released. I've never used anything so stable. And I'd say ME was the worst. No new features, and crashes every 12.5 minutes.

Daniel