Let's clarify a bit. The report says there was no evidence of
systematic cover up yet the report was only made possible because the Church refused to turn over materials to the police in the first place. Systematic in this case clearly means that it would've been standard procedure, however we do know that the Churches in Belgium were keeping information from the public and, more importantly, from the police.
The first matter was regarding dispensation from the clerical state, that priest had already but reported to the civil authorities and removed from priestly duties, whilst the request was pending.
Doesn't matter, it is a specific example of Ratzinger dealing with pedophile priest, something you explicitly said he was not involved in.
As for the other letter, the secrecy seems as much for the accuser as accused.
Oh yes, let's not tell the police because then the victim might become even more of victim? In fact, we're so sure of this that anyone caught telling the police will be reprimanded and possibly ex-communicated for not thinking of the poor victim? My arse. I would like to see this held up in court.
Again, imagine the scandal if ANY OTHER ORGANISATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH issued such an edict. But because it's the Catholic church they're either above the law or we should just accept that they fiddle kiddies.
Not all priest accused are guilty
This is why we have courts
So it would be a great injustice to make public a false accusation. I have not read the letter so I do not know whether it explicitly said guilty priest are not to be passed on to the civil authorities.
Going to the police to report child rape is not equivalent to printing libel about someone in some tabloid. Should none of us ever report crime because we might defame the criminal?
This is the crime of solicitation, which must be investigated by the CDF. Some ammendments have been made since 1962 and certainly the child protection policy of the Bishops of England and Wales involves the civil authorities.
It was superceded only in 2001 by SACRAMENTORUM SANCTITATIS TUTELA which only states that...
"Reservation to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is also extended to a delict against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue committed by a cleric with a minor below the age of eighteen years."
The crime of solicitation certainly, other abuses I am not so sure.
It's under CRIMEN PESSIMUM near the end of the original document.
Saying it as a matter of policy protected is highly disingenuous.
I never said it was a matter of policy, it probably isn't official policy to do such things. However, this does not mean such things did not happen.
Yes its policy of investigation was one which assumed innocent until proven guilty and the trial was private.
And that right there is the problem. NO ONE is above the Law, a private trial by definition is an affront to the law. How can you have a trial against an organisation if that organisation is the one conducting the trial and conducting it away from the scrutinising eyes of the public? By even suggesting that such trials should be private you are admitting contempt for the justice system.
Yes some bishops chose not to report abusive priests to civil authorities because they worried about scandal or thought that reform of the offender was possible.
Then why won't mr infallible bring them to justice? He could with one whisper have these men tried fairly by the proper authorities. He could with a single wave of his hand allow the police access to all the documents and church records. He could easily admit the church's role in all of this and more, he could name names, he could extradite Father Henn today. The fact that he does not is proof that he believes his institution is above the law.
As with rape victim between adults, the victims do not always want it to go to trial because they cannot face thinking about it again.
Two things.
1. Children cannot consent, and so a parent must make this choice.
2. The abuse victims who have come forward (now adults) are complaining that they didn't get justice and want trials.
3. Who are you to decide what should and should not go to court?
It's as simple as this:
Have you suspected a crime to have taken place? If YES call the police.
No private trial, no writing to the Vatican and absolutely no moving people into diplomatic immunity to insulate them from justice.
When the victim is even younger one can imagine the fear is even worse. For a trial to proceed it requires that the victim, as usually the only witness, testifies against the defendant.
It starts with a call to the police. How many times this crucial step was bypassed or avoided altogether is the heart of the problem.
Believe me I am really angry about this too.
Right, this is why you posted an article with the title "How the New Atheists are abusing the truth" without comment on the crimes of the Church. Your priority is not for justice but absolute defence of the papacy. We won't find you demanding the Pope to cooperate with the authorities and turn over suspected offenders to the police. We won't find you writing angry letters to your Church demanding explanations for what has happened in your name.
No, we find you posting articles about how upsetting it is that the secular media are reporting on the abuses and it's all just a cover to persecute catholics.
You may have heard (Newsnight) about an Irish 'ex-priest' who was found guilty of abuse by the Irish Catholic Church, he was dispensed from the clerical state and then quit Irelandand set up in Scotland and ran a guest house on Murray Park in St Andrews.
Yes I remember finding his house on streetview (it's on a thread here somewhere)
If I had known about this I'm sure with a few others we'd have run him out of town.
This is not impressive. We are not a lynch mob, it's not about revenge, it's about justice. I would like to see him in protective custody and given his fair share of justice.
As I said above the Church in England and Wales have some of the most stringent child and vulnerable adult protection policy of any organisation in the UK.
This is not because it's the Church it's because it's in the UK where we have incredibly tight laws on the matter (e.g. disclosure scotland, or that law that prevented authors going to visit schools).
Because, if it was the Church then this would be the policy world wide, and it isn't
The Pope when former Prefect of the CDF started the reform of the procedures and he personally has met victims of abuse whenever he has visited another country.
PR. Show me him extraditing Father Henn to face justice in the US. Show me him not just supporting police action but actually assisting in it and not obstructing it.
Here is Archbishop Nichols on clerical sex abuse talking a newspaper (or something) where he clearly won't say shit like "yeah we did it all the time and we're totally getting away with it *high five*
Actions, not words please.
Until recently the Samaritans did not 'call the police immediately' either.
Perhaps, but I would also argue that that is wrong. If you suspect a crime has been committed especially something as grave as rape then you a moral obligation to report it despite any company policy. This is also the "but they are just as bad" defence.
The whole issue has been one of taboo until recently, so we still do not know the full extent in society.
Taboo? Rape itself may be taboo in that it is just something you shouldn't do but it has been a crime for untold centuries (someone else had better but a figure on this since the earliest example I can find is the offences against the person act 1861 but if this is the first time rape became illegal I will be surprised).
Perhaps you meant the reporting of rape was taboo until recently? Again, maybe it was considered 'improper' to report rape, big deal, it's still illegal and the legality is the only thing that matters here.
We have probably a better understand of it within the Catholic Church than families or institutions run by the state. In either of those situations a cover-up of sorts may have taken place or the victims' self-imposed silence is keeping the truth hidden. If the Catholic Church has to take a battering for the actions of evil priests and it brings about a greater openess about the extent of child abuse in society well it has been worth it.
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Yes, I know that not all rapists happen to be Catholic priests. Show me one other organisation that has shielded rapists though and I will happily condemn them.
