What happened to the sinner?

[Al]

OK so you don't like the new colour scheme, pigeon. That is your right. And you have the right to express it. No one is telling you to shut up. However, I cannot see how you can go from there to demanding that it be changed. That is unreasonable. I like the new look. Does that give me the right to demand that it remain forever unchanged? No, of course it does not. Oli asked for opinions about the planned changes (which is more than he needed to do) and then, whether as the result of an in-depth consultative process or as a whim, he made the final decision. He owns the site. He has to live with it the most. Therefore, not unreasonably, he gets to decide what it looks like.

[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.

[sigh]

[s]Greebo wrote on 21:43, 15th Nov 2003:
Who says they were ignored? Just because it was changed to what some people don't like doesn't mean their opinions were ignored, it just means more people liked it than disliked it.


Maybe, but that last part looks more than a little doubtful. Why ask for opinions if they have no effect on what you do? Legitimate concerns were raised about the colour scheme and the title bar fo instance, and nothing was changed about them.

[pigeon]

[s]Al wrote on 10:11, 16th Nov 2003:
Therefore, not unreasonably, he gets to decide what it looks like.

Quite. I was just under the impression that most admin's design their site with the intent to both please and attract users. Therefore I was pointing out that on that issue it does not have 100% success rate, more ilike 50% which isn't a good score really.

And the things I was suggesting be changed straight away are formatting mistakes that mnake the place untidy. Most of these are corrected before a site is uploaded but in this case they have not been. I'm not sure yet if the obvious mistake of a right hand line in the message board tables in thread index missing in the latest or second latest post has been fixed yet. Would you prefer these mistakes were not brought to attention? Most people are a little perfectionist when it comes to webites they design, I assummed the it was the same with this one. Maybe not.

The main point however is that so many people dislsike the colour scheme and voiced their concerns, no doubt expecting that such a reaction from so many people would no doubt be paid attention to. As it is it hasn't, and I am bemused to why no other colours were tried out. As I have pointed out it is an extrememly simple task which is not at all time consumming, and would allow for a colour scheme to be found that pleased more people and looked a little more professionally done.

[Al]

I think we all understand the point you are making regarding the colour scheme. I don't think you need keep repeating it as if repetition alone will win you the argument. I seem to remember that other colours were tried out as part of the testing before the new version of The Sinner was launched. You don't like it. You are probably not alone. Many people do like the new colours. You can't please everyone all the time.

[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.

[yawn]

[s]Al wrote on 15:21, 16th Nov 2003:
Many people do like the new colours. You can't please everyone all the time.

Hmm isn't this all falling under the complaint that not enough people complain about things? The argument that just because something is satisfactory doesn't mean we have to put up with the things we don't like.

Or does that just apply to services in halls and RESNet? Seems a little hypocritical to me.

[Al]

Do you pay to use The Sinner? Of course not. Comparing it to services that you pay large amounts of money for is simply ridiculous. Unless, of course, the university repaints your room and you complain endlessly about the new colour scheme.....

[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.

[whoosa]

[s]Al wrote on 18:08, 16th Nov 2003:
Do you pay to use The Sinner? Of course not. Comparing it to services that you pay large amounts of money for is simply ridiculous. Unless, of course, the university repaints your room and you complain endlessly about the new colour scheme.....


Many who don't use RESNet still delight in complaining about it. If you are suggesting that the only good websites on the web are thos eyou pay for then that says rather more about you than some wish to know.

To use the excuse of "it's free" or "people worked hard on it" is bollocks. Someone used the bbc example which explains it properly.

It's something when the idiots that run that other site actually hit the nail on the head when it comes to the design/performance/democratic side of this site.

The colours suck. The final design is extremely untidy. and as no one wants to seem to admit, it's ridiculously easy to change colours - something both sites could do with doing.

Oh, and putting a smiley face on posts that are blatantly not happy ones is just a little tiresome.

[Amanda]

Oh, and putting a smiley face on posts that are blatantly not happy ones is just a little tiresome.

are you just trying to scrabble for things to argue about?!

[Thalia]

I don't see why this is such an issue...i don't like the brown colour that much either but so what? I come to the sinner to chat to people on messageboards not sit in my room with a nice looking webpage on the screen for the hell of it.
If this is the colour Oli wants it then deal cos it's his choice and maybe it would be better if the people who don't like the colour so much that they bugger off and stop using the sinner are gone because they obviously don't much care for the website if the colour brown is enough to put them off it.

As for whatever it is your saying about the layout that makes it so untidy or unprofessional...i didn't even notice and i'm still not sure what ur on about :-/

[hr][s]A Question
A voice said, Look me in the stars
And tell me truly, men of earth,
If all the soul-and-body scars
Were not too much to pay for birth.
---Robert Frost[/s]

[James Baster]

[s]Bryn wrote on 19:02, 15th Nov 2003:
Ooh, cool, I like that you can click on the logo at the top and it takes you back to the front page.

Or has this always been a feature and I've just been unobservant?

That is in fact the only feature of the site that has remained unchanged in any way since the site was launched three years ago. Well done on you unobserving powers :-p *

This argument is a repeat of the usual ones. Some people like the changes, some people don't and always make it a big argument about the ownership of the sinner and consumers rights, for want of a better phrase. Well, Oli has done two public Betas at which people had the chance to offer feedback. He has listened to the quantity and amount of feedback - notice the fact that there were two public betas. And in the end, the phrase "You can't please everyone all the time" is apt.

But will users please stop telling people to leave the site. What on earth gives you the right to tell other users their not welcome here? This site is meant to be for all students of St. Andrews. Please try to respect that.

[s]* seriously, most websites do that. Its a convention[/s]

[Ethan With]

James is right - you shouldn't tell people that they shouldn't use the Sinner. It's here for everyone (and it's free to use!)


However, I still think that the content is more important than the colour scheme. And as James said there, you can't please all the people all the time.

[MercuryAnna]

I'd just like to say that I like the new color. Or colour. Coulour.

I think brown gets a bad rap most of the time. It's not that horrible! It's actually quite warm and inviting, like chocolate. Mmmm.... chocolate.

Plus it fits in rather well with the "stick" slogan at the top.

I also agree with the "constant evolution" theory of websites. The Sinner is getting prettier and prettier... and so are you, Oli.

*grin*

[Buzzboy]

It's a lot easier on the eyes.

But it is brown. I had a brown website for a while and realised that it doesn't give off an upbeat impression, but if you don't need upbeat then brown is for you.

[hr]On the Seventh Day God said to Adam:

"Can I leave it with you?"

[Bryn]

[s]James Baster wrote on 13:26, 17th Nov 2003:]
And in the end, the phrase "You can't please everyone all the time" is apt.


Ah, but if the site was skinnable, then you could please most people, because they'd be able to choose their own colour scheme

[hr]
http://bryn.ipfox.com

[Buzzboy]

mmm... intriguing...

[hr]On the Seventh Day God said to Adam:

"Can I leave it with you?"

[mossop]

Can I make a wee suggestion without getting my head bitten off....although this is constructive rather than I don't like...

I always thought message boards should have a link which takes you to the previous or next thread. Any chance of having that so that you don't actually have to go back to the messageboard only to click on the next link anyway?

Do you get what I mean, I don't think I explained that very well!

[hr]http://www.geocities.com/stauwfc

[Saint Sal]

For some reason the colour scheme makes me hungry, but that's probably because it looks like chocolate mousse. The colour is alright - not something I love or hate. Mind you, The Sinner used to be a rather delightful shade of burgandy, which it should never have been changed from, eh James?

The thing about the site is that it is, for me at least, perfectly functional. The Sinner, in essence and as most people use it, is a message board. Yes, there is the Guide and other items, but most people who come here use it for these boards. And when you are reading a message board, isn't the whole point of them readability? As long as it can be read, surely it has fulfilled it's purpose?

Just one thing, Oli. The stick thing. Re. the wanking stick thing. It's still being wanked and it is worrying.

[Al]

"Many who don't use RESNet still delight in complaining about it. If you are suggesting that the only good websites on the web are thos eyou pay for then that says rather more about you than some wish to know."

No. What I said was that only an idiot would compare a service that demands a high fee and a service that is provided free of charge. It was not a difficult concept to grasp.

"To use the excuse of "it's free" or "people worked hard on it" is bollocks. Someone used the bbc example which explains it properly."

No, it doesn't.

"It's something when the idiots that run that other site actually hit the nail on the head when it comes to the design/performance/democratic side of this site."

And yet you keep returning to enlighten us all with your wisdom. And when did anyone say that it was a democracy?

"The colours suck. The final design is extremely untidy. and as no one wants to seem to admit, it's ridiculously easy to change colours - something both sites could do with doing."

Hey! I know - why don't you claim your opinion is the only one that matters? Better yet - make out that your opinion is fact. Great!

"Oh, and putting a smiley face on posts that are blatantly not happy ones is just a little tiresome."

And endlessly regurgitating the same points isn't? And I *do* apologise for my heinous use of a smiley face. I will endeavour to do better in future.

[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.

[cheeky]

[s]Al wrote on 16:41, 17th Nov 2003:
Hey! I know - why don't you claim your opinion is the only one that matters? Better yet - make out that your opinion is fact. Great!


Obviously that would be impossible, as you already follow that rule yourself. Lighten up dude, you are not the sinner so stop taking everything so personally. It's more than a little bizarre.

[Al]

"Obviously that would be impossible, as you already follow that rule yourself. Lighten up dude, you are not the sinner so stop taking everything so personally. It's more than a little bizarre."

What are you on about? It is not me who is bombarding this thread with demands for a colour change based on nothing more than my opinion. Nor have I ever said I was The Sinner. I responded to a comment that was directly made to me. How else should I have taken that but personally?

[hr]Life is too important to be taken seriously.